Ukraine

[Shagrat]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26405635

I'm getting really nervous about what's going on in the Ukraine.

Russia have had a bee in their bonnet about losing influence on a number of places since the USSR fell apart and I think Ukraine pushing for greater links with the EU was the last straw.

They are not actually being very subtle about moving troops into the region at the moment.

 

[caLLous]

Russia needs to fuck off tbh. The Canadian PM has said this to Russia (with more political words). They've withdrawn from G8, said they recognise the new Ukrainian government, told Putin to back up the truck and pulled their ambassador from Ukraine.

It's only going to escalate though, Putin isn't exactly renowned for backtracking.

 

[Mabs]

depends which side of the fence the only super power left comes down on tbh, and by that i mean China

is it worth a war with russia ? no ? then we needed to get it occupied before they did, or it will be too late...

bets on russia withdrawing after the pro-eu politicians are murdered by "dissidents" during "civil unrest" ?

 

[Gwadien]

It's only going to escalate though, Putin isn't exactly renowned for backtracking.

His popularity depends on his balls of steel, he won't back down, no, he'll expect the west to back down, and we probably will, although I'm worried, not going to lie.

depends which side of the fence the only super power left comes down on tbh, and by that i mean China

China isn't a super power in terms of military though, they dominate economically, but when it comes down to military, America is the only true super power, and no other country could -really- compete with them.

I can't see China fucking up their economy by placing sanctions on anyone, because that'll be bad news for them.

There needs to be a nutter to be the UN Secretary-General to call Putins bluff, Ban Ki-moon is too cute.

 

[DaGaffer]

Very difficult to see a peaceful resolution to any of this; doesn't help that 1 in 5 Ukrainians are actually ethnic Russians. A lot depends on the Ukrainian military; if they don't start fighting among themselves, then the Russians are in for a lot of trouble, because they're no pushovers; this won't be like Georgia.

 

[Job]

How the fuck can anyone recognise the new government..the previous guy was voted in democratically and was ousted by violent coup.
Its civil war..plain and simple..the Russians have annexed huge areas by immigration stealth..a warning to all of us..now were dealing with the results...west vs east..Ukraine is the new Berlin.
Sanctions sre useless...Russia will turn off the gas to anyone who tries...thats why we have to get fracking asap

 

[DaGaffer]

How the fuck can anyone recognise the new government..the previous guy was voted in democratically and was ousted by violent coup.
Its civil war..plain and simple..the Russians have annexed huge areas by immigration stealth..a warning to all of us..now were dealing with the results...west vs east..Ukraine is the new Berlin.
Sanctions sre useless...Russia will turn off the gas to anyone who tries...thats why we have to get fracking asap

The population of Ukraine has had a significant Russian element for over 100 years. By your logic we should be worried about a rising from the Irish about now.

 

[Job]

So now your comparing the Irish to the Ruskies..thats quite a bit out of my logic.

 

[Gwadien]

So now your comparing the Irish to the Ruskies..thats quite a bit out of my logic.

No, his logic is completely fine, we protected Protestant 'Ulster' because they were the same religion as us, therefore we thought they were 'British', also, there was a few migrants (Scottish mainly) to Ulster over the years before Irish independence, Russia are protecting the Russians in the Crimea because there's a large Russian population there...

The Ukraine should be split into two halves, half Russian, half European, because it's ruined by corruption, and you can't call the previous elections legitimate since the President is getting charged on accounts of corruption.

 

[Tom]

The West won't get involved beyond sternly worded letters and economic sanctions. It isn't in anyone's interest to get busy with Russia.

 

[Gwadien]

This won't be good for Ukraine as a nation either, since it'll make the pro-europeans even more pro-european and the pro-russians even more pro-russian, it'll cause conflicts for a long long time, and under that, Europe will refuse them to join the EU, therefore Russia won't have to keep bribing them.

 

[Olgaline]

It's DayZ with really good grafics ?

As for Russia, How would the west react if the situation was reversed?

 

[Mabs]

His popularity depends on his balls of steel, he won't back down, no, he'll expect the west to back down, and we probably will, although I'm worried, not going to lie.



China isn't a super power in terms of military though, they dominate economically, but when it comes down to military, America is the only true super power, and no other country could -really- compete with them.

I can't see China fucking up their economy by placing sanctions on anyone, because that'll be bad news for them.

There needs to be a nutter to be the UN Secretary-General to call Putins bluff, Ban Ki-moon is too cute.

exlcuding nukes, china is the only country that could give russia a run for its money tbh
plus, with us at one side and china at the other, wars on 2 fronts are never recommended

its cuban missile crisis take 2, first person to blink, loses, or gets nuked

 

[old.Tohtori]

exlcuding nukes, china is the only country that could give russia a run for its money tbh

Proven wrong by the Finnish a long time ago

 

[Mabs]

Proven wrong by the Finnish a long time ago

i meant nowadays, and unless putin starts purging anyone with even the most basic military competancy, i wouldnt think much of their chances either

 

[old.Tohtori]

These days it would still be a hell of a fight. Every man in Finland is a trained soldier as it's mandatory(health problems excluded) and even those who wish to do civilian service are in jobs that are assets to the military. Then include women who volunteer for the training and it's quite a lot more. Ofcourse nukes are a bit of an issue, but otherwise if the fight would be in finnish/russian soil by conventional means then it could go either way.

More accurately we have around 350k reserve soldiers(in a more realistic way to put it).

 

[Gwadien]

These days it would still be a hell of a fight. Every man in Finland is a trained soldier as it's mandatory(health problems excluded) and even those who wish to do civilian service are in jobs that are assets to the military. Then include women who volunteer for the training and it's quite a lot more. Ofcourse nukes are a bit of an issue, but otherwise if the fight would be in finnish/russian soil by conventional means then it could go either way.

More accurately we have around 350k reserve soldiers(in a more realistic way to put it).

Doubt it, that's a very chinese way of looking at it, Russia probably has more blowy blowy stuff than you, and that's what matters.

Oh, and you've seen the amount of Russian dota players, imagine those, hacking your PCs!

 

[Wij]

Lordi would bring Russia down with metal!

 

[DaGaffer]

No, his logic is completely fine, we protected Protestant 'Ulster' because they were the same religion as us, therefore we thought they were 'British', also, there was a few migrants (Scottish mainly) to Ulster over the years before Irish independence, Russia are protecting the Russians in the Crimea because there's a large Russian population there...

The Ukraine should be split into two halves, half Russian, half European, because it's ruined by corruption, and you can't call the previous elections legitimate since the President is getting charged on accounts of corruption.

Actually my logic is simpler than that; one in ten Brits has an Irish ancestor, by Job's logic, "stealth immigrants".

 

[Mabs]

Actually my logic is simpler than that; one in ten Brits has an Irish ancestor, by Job's logic, "stealth immigrants".

you used "Job" and "logic" together.. <head explodes>

 

[old.user4556]

Job and logic.

Wait.. what... does not compute... AHGGRRGG:

 

[old.user4556]

you used "Job" and "logic" together.. <head explodes>

Fucking LOL! Seriously never saw your post when I posted .

 

[old.Tohtori]

Doubt it, that's a very chinese way of looking at it, Russia probably has more blowy blowy stuff than you, and that's what matters.

Same thing could've been said about the winter war, which in the end didn't matter. I'd say nukes are the only defining factor that would 100% call it one way or other.

 

[fettoken]

 

[Mabs]

 

[Scouse]

The world cannot just allow this to happen. The world cannot just say it is OK, in effect, to violate the sovereignty of another nation in this way.

/Afghanistan.

 

[Scouse]

Oh. Sorry, @Embattle?

Did we not invade Afghanistan, despite it not being anywhere near our borders?

 

[old.Tohtori]

It's going to be the same thing as always;

Other nations; "You can't do that"
Larger country(with nukes none the less); "Well we are"
Other countries; "You're naughty"

 

[Raven]

/Afghanistan.

/Iraq

 

[DaGaffer]

Oh. Sorry, @Embattle?

Did we not invade Afghanistan, despite it not being anywhere near our borders?

Afghanistan was a staging area for terrorist activity and a "failed state" that couldn't be relied on to police itself. While the "mission" was ill-conceived (as in, what's the ultimate objective here?), the logic for attacks on Afghanistan in 2003 were sound. Ukraine isn't doing anything to anyone outside its own borders so the situation is utterly different.

/edit - to take Raven's point, if you'd said Iraq, you'd have been entirely correct.