[TSW] 3 Faction PvP ?

[Ctuchik]

No, most MMO's wouldn't have permadeath, because it's a really bad idea.

Like for example, should the GM's restore your carefully played character if you died because the power in you're house went? Or had a massive lagspike that was neither your nor the game servers fault?

If they were restoring dead characters for ANY reason, then people would just abuse it and ruin the whole point with it. And with that the catch 22 syndrome starts....

It works in single player games because there it's probably your fault that you died. But will never work in MMO's because it's not just you playing.

And loud minority's are only listened to if the silent majority doesn't really care about it.

And they are opposing a permadeath system.

So as long as the silent majority stays silent, all is well. It's when they start to scream shit are about to hit the fan....

I heard there was a few games that have tried it, i cant remember the names of them but i do remember that they pretty much failed.

 

[Genedril]

Was supposed to be in SWG at release IF you were a Jedi. That wasn't popular with most so it was taken out. Best bet if you want that style PvP is looting a'la UO and Eve (with suitable risk vs. reward).

Then Sony gutted the rest of SWG so I just stopped caring.

 

[Ctuchik]

Aye, EvE type looting system is probably as close to permadeath they can get away with and still retain a decent subscriber base. UO i wouldn't know because i never tried it for long enough.

I know Darkfall does this to but the risk versus reward is what i've heard nonexistent so can't really count that...

 

[Fafnir]

Aye, EvE type looting system is probably as close to permadeath they can get away with and still retain a decent subscriber base. UO i wouldn't know because i never tried it for long enough.

I know Darkfall does this to but the risk versus reward is what i've heard nonexistent so can't really count that...

Well played a game a few years where you could drop items from your inventory, was not really fun when you got a really nice item, after hours of farming just to get ganked by a full group and drop that same item.

And games where ive played where you could drop stuff tended to have a higher ammount of muppets who only prayed on weaker targets to grief. Think if wow implemented something like this then i guess they would loose like 80% of the player base.

 

[Genedril]

Well played a game a few years where you could drop items from your inventory, was not really fun when you got a really nice item, after hours of farming just to get ganked by a full group and drop that same item.

And games where ive played where you could drop stuff tended to have a higher ammount of muppets who only prayed on weaker targets to grief. Think if wow implemented something like this then i guess they would loose like 80% of the player base.

It's a different system that's appreciated by different gamers. If you've got a very nice item you only carry it around if the risk of losing it is worth it with regards to the reward of knocking someone around with it. You certainly don't carry your most treasured possession around when you're solo, in enemy territory a having just called a bunch of the enemy something childish on the internets.

In Eve terms 'don't fly what you can't afford to lose'.

 

[Soazak]

I enjoyed stat-loss in UO, that made the system optional (only murderers would suffer from statloss when they died, approx 30% loss to all skills), so as long as you stayed blue (i.e. didn't kill non criminals/enemy guild members etc) you could avoid the system completely.

Also when a murderer/criminal you could be attacked by anyone at will, and they would not incur a penalty for attacking you. It was effectively how a justice system should work in a game that allowed PK'ing.

I think the way MMO games have gone though, that sort of system doesn't really work any more, games are faction based rather than everyone being human and chosing a faction/guild, more pve and item focused etc.

 

[Genedril]

Red and Grey hunting was quite fun in UO. Same as hunting the flashys in Eve.

Some games are faction based but there's quite a few that aren't. I think the problem is that these days people expect to PvE in peace and faction style games allow that. I much prefer PvP but I realise that PvP'rs are the minority and a game needs PvE to keep the majority happy. If you want to keep peaceful PvE then 'faction' games are the best way forward whether I like it or not.

PvP games tend to be far more time intensive as you still need to do the PvE in order to PvP and unless you use alts or mules that means that you've got to make sure your main can get income without getting ganked by the person you got 2 weeks ago while you're trying to farm. That was half the fun for me though.

 

[Ctuchik]

I think the way MMO games have gone though, that sort of system doesn't really work any more, games are faction based rather than everyone being human and chosing a faction/guild, more pve and item focused etc.

Factions or not, i can't see why it shouldn't work any way.

Most pvp'ers just don't want to get punished when they grief pve'ers.

Stat loss would work perfectly fine if it only occurred in designated pve zones, and not in pvp zones.

Now i don't know if the stat loss in UO were permanent or if you could get rid of it by "repenting" or something.

So a possible solution would be, you only suffered stat loss when killing someone in a pve zone but have it persist even tho you entered a pvp zone.
Then i think people would take it slightly easy on the pointless ganks but would still allow griefers to grief at a cost....

There could be a repent system sure, but only as a decently hard forced solo quest that you can not outgear or outlevel. Similar to the epic weapon quests in WoW where as hunters couldn't even have their pets out because the quest would fail. People couldn't even have a healer ungrouped throwing HoT's at them during or before the fight started as it would insta fail the first heal tick, not even sure buff pots were allowed...

Yes i know you could outgear those quests, but by that time the point of that weapon was moot...

 

[Genedril]

Sounds like the way in which you unflashy yourself in Eve Ctuchik - though you can gear yourself up for that. It's not questing - it's mob grinding and it's soulless and a pita.

 

[Ctuchik]

Nah, no mob grinding. Just a fairly long, really tricky quest.


"Rep grinding" is to easy, all it takes is time but it's generally not hard to do.

 

[Zede]

No, most MMO's wouldn't have permadeath, because it's a really bad idea.

Like for example, should the GM's restore your carefully played character if you died because the power in you're house went? Or had a massive lagspike that was neither your nor the game servers fault?

If they were restoring dead characters for ANY reason, then people would just abuse it and ruin the whole point with it. And with that the catch 22 syndrome starts....

It works in single player games because there it's probably your fault that you died. But will never work in MMO's because it's not just you playing.

And loud minority's are only listened to if the silent majority doesn't really care about it.

And they are opposing a permadeath system.

So as long as the silent majority stays silent, all is well. It's when they start to scream shit are about to hit the fan....

I heard there was a few games that have tried it, i cant remember the names of them but i do remember that they pretty much failed.

When i first played ultima online in 98', if u died and didnt get back to your body in 5 mins, u lost everything on your body !

 

[Zede]

Ultima online didnt have any proper class system, skills that could be picked and trained as you pleased, no level ststem and fuck all quests !


so not so new a concept...

 

[Genedril]

Ultima online didnt have any proper class system, skills that could be picked and trained as you pleased, no level ststem and fuck all quests !


so not so new a concept...

And one which Eve pinched; not that there's anything wrong with that.

Nah, no mob grinding. Just a fairly long, really tricky quest.


"Rep grinding" is to easy, all it takes is time but it's generally not hard to do.

TBH I'd rather do a quest than spend a week or so grinding npc's. Which is why I'd rather it was a grind.

 

[LordjOX]

Off topic post!

 

[Genedril]

Off topic post!

Someone stayed on topic for at least half a page. That must be some sort of record round here.

These days a new game comes out and people say 'it's got this, this and this'. Some old timer (like myself) eventually says 'wish it had this, this and this instead'. Then we ramble on for a while until we get bored.

Maybe we should pool our collective knowledge and just make a game....

 

[svartalf]

What little interest I had in this just went "Poof!".

The Secret World's business model to feature subs and cash shop
by Jef Reahard on Aug 26th 2011 9:30AMFantasy, Horror, Business models, Game mechanics, MMO industry, New titles, News items, The Secret World, Miscellaneous30


Funcom has taken the wraps off its business model for The Secret World, and the upcoming horror-conspiracy MMORPG will ship with a traditional subscription model. That's not all, though. In a post on the official forums, community manager Oliver "Tarib" Kunz says that the game will also feature microtransactions and a cash shop.

The blurb mentions Funcom's desire to steer clear of "pay-to-win" scenarios by limiting the item store to clothing and convenience items. "Character power in The Secret World will be determined by how well you play the game, not how much money you are willing to put into it," Kunz writes.

• Source: TSW forums
• More coverage: TSW website

Tags: business-models, cash-shop, fantasy, funcom, horror, item-shop, item-store, microtransactions, oliver-kunz, pay-to-win, selling-power, subscriptions, tarib, the-secret-world, tsw

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[LordjOX]

Microtransaction shops getting more and more common in MMO's now, might aswell deal with it

 

[svartalf]

Microtransaction shops getting more and more common in MMO's now, might aswell deal with it

Oh, it's dealt with

 

[Syri]

So, because they're making a bit of money out of people that are willing to pay for purely cosmetic items, that won't affect the game-play, you're going to drop all interest? If it was a case of buying higher ranks, new skills, ultimate weapons, buff potions and the like, then sure. If it's just buying a leather jacket for your character to wear though (clothing doesn't have any impact on the character, it's purely for appearance) then it's fine if people are willing to pay for it. You can always, you know, not pay...
It's something that a lot of people do want though, the ability to pay for that extra bit of non-impacting customisation. Just look at WoW for example, they're selling non-combat pets, and you see tons of people with them in game. They don't DO anything, they just follow your character around, but people are paying for them. If demand is there, then you can't be shocked at companies meeting those demands. As long as it doesn't affect the game itself, I couldn't care less if the person I'm fighting spent £5 to make their jacket have a union jack on the back of it or something. It doesn't make them any more likely to win.

 

[svartalf]

So, because they're making a bit of money out of people that are willing to pay for purely cosmetic items, that won't affect the game-play, you're going to drop all interest?

Correct.

I've played enough games to realise that this is the thin end of the wedge. When companies come to the decision to bring in an online shop or even introduce expansion packs, I take a serious look at what's going on there and how it'll impact my gameplay.

I see this as a display of the dev house's willpower, that they are putting in the mechanism now while saying the magical "no pay-to-win" as if it's a password to acceptability. I feel that when these online shops are introduced, pay-to-win can happen at the snap of the CEO's fingers.

If a game has no online shop (from the start), then I am more willing to believe that pay-to-win won't happen.

Call me a sucker.

 

[svartalf]

In addition, cash shops also imply that rather than improve the game as a whole, the devs are taking an approach which says the game will never be improved after launch and that all content from there on will be paid for shop items.

The implications of microtransaction shops are terrible.

I'm not going to pay a sub and then be told I can't have content.

 

[Soazak]

In addition, cash shops also imply that rather than improve the game as a whole, the devs are taking an approach which says the game will never be improved after launch and that all content from there on will be paid for shop items.

The implications of microtransaction shops are terrible.

I don't think that they're taking an approach that the game won't be improved after launch. I don't think microtransactions are a great idea, but people will not continue to play a subscription based game that doesn't constantly improve, so they will have to continue to release quality updates.

I'm not going to pay a sub and then be told I can't have content.

I do agree with this, but if it's only fluff I don't think it's much of a problem. If they restrict char progression or accessable areas, then I think that's when it becomes lame. I wouldn't skip the game completely based on the fact they're using the system, since every game pretty much does now.

I really disliked the rate at which daoc released expansions, it was fairly clear that it was just a cashcow for them, I'm not under any illusion that these companys exist purely for my entertainment, but I would like to see some balance between creative design and profit

 

[Punishment]

Vanity items via microtrans are fine performance improving items should never be implemented into a pay to play mmo though in my opinion

 

[svartalf]

Vanity items via microtrans are fine performance improving items should never be implemented into a pay to play mmo though in my opinion

That's the nub of the issue, but (and I know I'm just repeating what I said above, but here goes) when you look at the larger issue, the implications are that rather than improve upon the existing content with fixes and polish, the devs are spending time and effort on content that not everybody will be entitled to even though they (some might say scandalously, when compared with Guild Wars) pay a monthly fee.

 

[Soazak]

That's the nub of the issue, but (and I know I'm just repeating what I said above, but here goes) when you look at the larger issue, the implications are that rather than improve upon the existing content with fixes and polish, the devs are spending time and effort on content that not everybody will be entitled to even though they (some might say scandalously, when compared with Guild Wars) pay a monthly fee.

Chances are though, they will have a set team to work on fluff like costumes (assuming their team is big enough ofc). If they weren't to be paid for with real money, they would just be attained through some quest or NPC bought, so that resource would be used in that way anyway. This is a huge assumption of course, but I couldn't see them doing this instead of content.

 

[old.Tohtori]

DISCUSS !!

Gladly.

No levels? Don't think so. There's a leveling system to keep people hooked, no matter if it's your epeen or some form of +1 skill system. There's always stars. Maybe hiidden, but still stars. Trying to say you don't have a leveling system smells of bullcrap.

No fantasy or sci-fi? Hah. Oh, sorry, i thought electro bolt flinging ctulhu minions were every day occurance. Another lil irk to the bullshit meter.

Need out of game researh for a game? Bye bye. If a game can't stand on it's own, it's worthless.

And then, 3 faction PVP, 2 faction PVP, 5 faction PVP? All wothless if you don't have A: numbers to keep PVP going B: mechanics to make C happen with a challenge and C: fun.

All in all, lot of hot air to cover a mostly generic MMO.

 

[svartalf]

News...

The Secret World's beta signup postponed
by Jef Reahard on Aug 27th 2011 6:00PMBetas, Fantasy, Horror, Events, real-world, MMO industry, New titles, News items, The Secret World43


Those of you all hot and bothered for the start of The Secret World's beta registration event will need to avail yourselves of a cold shower (or at least a couple of tall, cold adult beverages). Funcom has announced that its ARG-infused signup event is not quite ready for prime time, and there's no time table on the rescheduling, either.

A blurb on the game's website delivers the official "we're deeply sorry for the inconvenience" yada yada and also goes on to say that the registration for The Secret War event is delayed "until further notice."

We'll keep our eyes peeled, and our heads on a swivel, as it's no doubt the fault of those dastardly Illuminati.

[Thanks to Paul for the tip!]

• Source: TSW website

Tags: arg, beta, beta-registration, beta-signup, conspiracy, delay, fantasy, funcom, horror, illuminati, postponed, secret-war-event, the-secret-war, the-secret-world, tsw

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http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/08/27/the-secret-worlds-beta-signup-postponed/

 

[svartalf]

... and suddenly ...

Funcom opens Secret World beta registration... really


by Jef Reahard on Aug 29th 2011 5:30PM

Betas, Fantasy, Horror, Culture, MMO industry, New titles, News items, The Secret World 45





So, the beta phase for The Secret World is officially open. For real this time, apparently. If you've been following the game with a microscope and a magnifying glass for the last few years, you're probably aware that last Saturday's beta registration "postponement" was some sort of ARG hoax... or was it?


Frankly, who cares, because as of today you can actually register! The catch is that it requires a Facebook account, so if you're of the opinion that the ubiquitous social networking site is run by evil Illuminati operatives hellbent on destroying your privacy and taking over the free world, well, you're right. But you'll just have to put up with that if you want to get a free preview of beta test TSW.


If you haven't figured it out yet, this ain't your granddaddy's beta, and admission to Funcom's horror-conspiracy MMO starts with a personality test, a faction choice, and all manner of ARG-related shenanigans designed to move the hype meter into the stratosphere. Head to the game's official website to check it out.

• Source: The Secret World

Tags: beta, beta-registration, beta-testing, facebook, fantasy, funcom, horror, illuminati, secret-world, signup, testing, the-really-real-beta-registration, the-secret-world

 

[eksdee]

Signed up. Don't have particularly high hopes but after being incredibly disappointed with what I've seen/read about GW2 I'm back on the market for a new and meaningful relationship with an MMO.

 

[Cirventhor]

What is it with GW2 that dissapoint you so, btw Miri?

Still think it looks pretty awesome, especially the World PvP part (which we admittedly know little about through).