Jaem- said:Low RR/ML chars, no special abilities to turn the odds of a battle imo ;P
lillagullan said:alb pbaoe grps usualy have paladin leading, atleast we had that on pryd/alb tho the "fgs" here its like 5 people leading j/k
contradictionNeo said:Hard one
solo ns/sb
Moo said:contradiction
if you want hard try solo bard imo <3 vf
Dawn said:why has bard more tasks than sorc?
Dawn said:those reasons are not enough, imo sorc has stuff to do too
Dawn said:bard has to mezz, demezz, and spam mezz allover the place after he runs endurance.
then he has to do a FZ occasionally. he is never first target of enemy ma or interrupts, since most focus their interrupting to the pbae box (as we saw in np vid too) he has a 10 sec immunity he could trigger whenever he wants, he has 2k hp or more and chain and AM on top of all that, and hammer/shield ( for sc reasons, better).
Dawn said:also, he is allways leader of group that makes it 10 times easier to pick targets on incomming and place himself and group in the position he feels more fit for mezzing and fighting ( with the morfs insta on him are harder ) and has 2 amnesia instants and 2 mezz instas to deal with adds or help his mezz or whatever. above that he has shade form ( and croc form if he wants, these also help to avoid interrupts and damage )
Dawn said:then sorc has to mezzz demezz root, keep track of the immunity timers on the root/mezz to know what to do when, then he has to place the pet correctly and change targets for it occasionally, he has to debuff the correct stat on correct targets, is first target of enemy MA has 1,5k hp in cloth and no mls of any use. also sorc has to deal with million instas and pets from hib, and above all he has to deal with GP. also sorc doesnt have perma end on aka no perma sprint as bard, and has no box to hide in when getting pwned or petted. sorc expects help from no1 and gets help from no1
Dawn said:im late allready ill check back replies when i get back from library got to fucking study for my finals. im pretty sure ive forgotten something dont have enough time to check and analyse laters
Moo said:contradiction
if you want hard try solo bard imo <3 vf
Fluid said:sigh, bard doesn't have chain he has reinforced (studded), a bard uses an instrument which is 2 handed not a hammer/shield, there wound be no speed or end or mana song if he was using a hammer and shield in fights.
Fluid said:how does the bard leading a grp mean he has less to do? a sorc sits nicely at the back panning and not having to worry about leading, the morphs u can get to, scalars and atlantis tablet are available to all realms fyi. bard does have 2 insta amnesias yes, but he has to time them perfectly to interupt, can't perms spam them like a sorc.
Fluid said:sorc has to mezz + root yep, but has 2 forms of cc on 1 char and also help with both from theurg and mincer, bard doesn't get help with mezzing, personally our grps #1 target is always theurg not sorc, so with some awareness sorcs can spam mezz from 1850 range freely unless the bard can get to him and keep him interuptted, bard has to deal with pets too, u know them snare nuking ones from theurg, or maybe even the speed 6 ones, or even the nice chain stunning air ones.
Fluid said:gl with that
Dawn said:first of all i wanna note that i find posts only made to lower someone really stupid. this is a general remark
for a leader is really easier to pan camera and pick target, also he has some bonus range. about morphs:
shade form isnt tho. and comparing insta amnesia to a castable one wont get you anywhere since they are used differently. dont see how perma spamming amnesia can help a sorc mezz
sorc has mezz + root so he has to keep track of the timers while bard has to only spamm mezz to interrupt -> mezz when timer resets. as we are talking about which class is more difficult to play that gives sorc a few more things to do. and druids can help bard with root as theurgs can help sorc. then, i am well aware of the theurgist pets both speed 6 ones and the chain stunning ones, and the ice ones with the snare nukes. a bard can move all those pets to the box and have them killed in no time, sorc can do nothing like that and not only that. plus that pets a bard has to deal whith are killed by confusion
it is my opinion that sorc has a really bigger workload than a bard, and less means to work it out. this doesnt mean that a bard is more effective than a sorc in the mezz/interrupt war.
Only demezzer and mezzer I accept but songs! Its really not that hard to play speed when your not in combat and end when your in combat, once you get end going thats it till the fight is over.Fluid said:only demezzer in grp, only mezzer in grp, songs osv
A bard should have plenty of root support from the druids (essential to a hib group), not all alb groups have theurg's (although these days they should have!). You may not have mezz support but if you did it would almost be redundant as a bard spends 90% of their time casting mezz anyway. The fact that bards don't have to deal with GP makes their mezzing life far easier anyway.Hotrats said:bard has songs which are pretty passive (speed when moving, end in combat), the insta shout dd (very easy to use), insta lull (also easy) and finally mezz (and some cure mezz). As far as I can tell the hardest part of a bard is deciding whether to use insta mezz or just castable mezz at the very start of a fight and getting end song going as early as possible.
Sorc is tricky, two types of cc (+ demezz), lots of debuffs (ae str/con and dex/qui and single target), castable amnesia, lifetap, pet control, quickcast (and in fact using quickcast correctly is probably the most skilled part of playing a sorc).
Well if the albs have a theurg then sorc has to co-ordinate as well so that goes both ways.Fluid said:sorc has to manage 2 timers yes, but a bard has to time his with a druids and its a lot harder to co-ordinate with some1 else than to just do it urself for timers. as for pets, how exactly does a bard run ice pets into pb? they nuke from range, now hib pets are mostly melee, and tbh if u choose to run a tank grp in alb, thats ur own problem, run a pb grp like NO and u can run our pets to pb too!! not to mention u should have a bg'er on u most of the time where as a bard doesn't.
Hotrats said:Only demezzer and mezzer I accept but songs! Its really not that hard to play speed when your not in combat and end when your in combat, once you get end going thats it till the fight is over.
I already did my comparison on bard vs sorc anywayA bard should have plenty of root support from the druids (essential to a hib group), not all alb groups have theurg's (although these days they should have!). You may not have mezz support but if you did it would almost be redundant as a bard spends 90% of their time casting mezz anyway. The fact that bards don't have to deal with GP makes their mezzing life far easier anyway.
Its a lot easier to shake off pets by running into pbae than to try qc ae root/mezz only to get a resist.
Not leading has its dis-advantages as well, especially when trying to jump another group.
Just watch Sorusi's latest bard vid then watch my sorc vid and tell me who had the harder time. Not saying Sorusi played worse than me just that he didn't have to work as hard to make sure his group won the fights!
Hotrats said:Well if the albs have a theurg then sorc has to co-ordinate as well so that goes both ways.
Hib pets mostly melee? Except maybe the chanter casting pets also with snare nuke!
Alb can't run a pbae group as well as hibs can until GP is removed and purge is taken to the 5 min timer. When that happens though hopefully all three realms will run lots of different kinds of groups.
End song may be a pain to get on but its not 'hard'Fluid said:hi whinerats, end song ain't always hard to get on, but it can be a pain if ur being chain interupted.
we have 1 nature druid in grp, who is also primary healer, and i'd say a theurg is a damn sight more common in a grp than an NA druid. GP must be a pain sure, but so is sos and the fact u got 350 extra range to get the initial mezz in.
you don't run a pb grp? thats ur own problem not mine, they are perfectly viable as NO has proven many times
again, this is your own problem, you think not leading has disadvantages? then lead, simple as that
they are totally different vids, played in totally different time frames of the game, before toa + grapple we would often see bard going down first, now not so much, sorcs not #1 priority now either, theurg has to go first.
You said it yourself in another thread i think, you don't rvr in toa so don't have the experience of toa rvr to comment on here.
If you faced pb groups more often you would prolly use ranged pets more.Fluid said:no good hib grps use snare pet, its ally all the way for us. Alb's cannot run as good a group as hibs PERIOD atm, but imo pb grps or sorc debuff grps are the best option u have atm, as for co-ordinating with the theurg, why bother? apparently u onyl fight hib pb grps so does it matter whats spammed on the box? be it mezz root or any other ae?
Hotrats said:End song may be a pain to get on but its not 'hard'
All druids got baseline ST root, NA druid even has insta root, no reason not to have at least 1 NA druid in every hib group. SoS doesn't hamper initial mezzing at all as it doesn't actually remove mezz, however I agree it does make life a lot harder for a bard (especially in a melee group when bard is a high priority target), GP is still far worse though especially as it effects pets who suddenly all coming flying toward you with barely enough time to ae root them.
I already said why alb can't do pbae.
Well if you think leading has its dis-advantages try not leading!
I will agree vids are totally different. How about compare it to DH vid instead, not much footage of Walkerb vid but enough to make the same comparison.
From what I heard a bard got a lot easier to play recently anyway, the harp and MoC.
Fluid said:u said its an advantage for a bard to lead a grp, but i say its more work that sitting at the back of a grp following, it is difficulty in playing the class we r talking about here remember.
as for pets, how exactly does a bard run ice pets into pb?
not to mention u should have a bg'er on u most of the time where as a bard doesn't.
Then lead your group if you think it is such an advantage. For myself, having played a bard in RvR, I would say it is one less thing to worry about, not having to drive your group and being able to pan at will. If you find your driver is changing directions too much, then educate him.Dawn said:a) i find having to guess where the leader of the group will decide to turn your camera
Arguably harder than to run melee pets into PBAE, especially if the pet is snare-nuking. In theory, a bard can banish theurg pets with confuse as well, but in practice this is very hard to do if you have a bunch of them on you.b)by moving 500 range behind pbae and getting nuking pets right in it
Yer NO are a very good pb group (I was in their group when we beat NP's best group) but not gonna compete with hib pb groups till GP is gone. A sorc is easier to play in a pb group anyway (like a bard is) cus they are no longer number 1 target. Also a alb pb group could take 2 sorc's, one for mezzing and the other for cold debuff.Fluid said:a) ask NO how to do a pb grp, they r the best grp on alb/exc atm by a long way.
b) bard is easier than it was now, moc was a good (+needed) change
c) come and try toa rvr, don't talk about ur experiences from pre toa, sorcs have more help now, such as BG which is gonna keep u alive a LOT longer vs tanks
d) i'll repost tommorow in a more serious mood t.t
Fluid said:a) ask NO how to do a pb grp, they r the best grp on alb/exc atm by a long way.