Tor Anroc fixed?

[Jupitus]

Your argument requires that everyone is an excellent player that knows exactly how everything works etc. Got some news for you, not everyone is an excellent player that knows how everything works, they just play to have some fun and guess what, scenarios like TA put them off the game.

My wife has never played an MMORPG until a couple of weeks ago, and she has a level 20 Witch Hunter, aswell as having a few minutes of experience playing my witch elf when she has logged me on in the evening to dodge queues.

She asked me 'why do I keep ending up in the lava'. I said 'it's knockbacks, try not to stand with your back to it'. She said 'okey dokey'. Next day I get home and she says 'On one scenario, I only died once in that Tor Rocky place today'.

It aint rocket science.:lol:

 

[Heta]

rocket science or not, it still suck

and they tanks are crap if they cant punt people into the lava

 

[Thimble]

I'll give it to ya from a Sorc's point of view. Mythic have been kind enough to give me dot's some pretty weak dmg. Unlike my BW counterpart...(bastids). So I'm AOE Destro spec'd. It's great! My AOE's hit hard. (they hit me nearly as hard)
Ok....so I have 2 decent damaging spell's. (Not counting chillwind, which I might add I still get smacked a hellahard for each application @100 DM. So don't gimme that "just spam it on everyone crap". Without a healer it's hard so survive my self harming abilities.....emo class for sure).

2 dmg'in spells. One is a 3 sec cast.....my god...3 seconds!! Do you know how much dmg you can take in 3 seconds from say a WH or WL? phht.
The other spell in channeled.......Oo. And, it only really seems to work on flat areas. So if you have a grp of ppl on an incline only some of them will take dmg. The dmg has to tick up to really do anything. So while I'm stood there with my arm up in the air, proving to everyone that I do shave my pits regularly (unlike them dwarf girls), I get hit. Gotta move.
I take dmg from you, I take dmg from myself. I'm trying to cast spells that take forever and a day while at the same time I'm looking for the nearest rock to wedge up my ass because 4 runts are running towards me. (I can't tell what they are, they all look the same).
I think, dot and run or stand and fight? I figure I'm screwed either way so I go for the run away tactic. Mash root, it catches the first 3. But then as soon as I root them I find myself unable to move either. As I look upon the bearded face of the closest stunty I'm sure I could see a smile crack that hairy mush. And I'm sure, if he looked close enough, he could see a frozen pixilated tear run down my sorc's face. I know what's about to happen. the 4th stunty manouvers around to the side of me and I'm punted by an invisible force. I hit the rock I was trying to use as an anchor moments before. Launch off of it like a ramp and land ass deep into the lava. The closest island is only a couple of inches away. I try to make a run for it. I can't move....at all. But it's only inches away.........
Just before death creeps apon me I'm aware of a pebble sized piece of rock wedged between my ass cheeks.....and I'm sure I could hear that fat little toad laughing

 

[Chronictank]

There is nothing wrong with knockbacks, the only problem is that so many classes have them
Casters should never ever have had them, and i would even go as far as to say the support shouldnt have them
It should be a defensive ability for tanks to protect their squishies tbh

As for Anroc, i really see no reason to complain about people not working out how to counter a knockback. Eventually they will see what others do and copy, if they can't even work that out *shurg* dont play Anroc

The vortex (is that the name) however is a utterly ridiculous ability though and completely open to abuse, it should be moved to a redundant line like on engineers or moved to a higher tier ability

 

[Chronictank]

I'll give it to ya from a Sorc's point of view. Mythic have been kind enough to give me dot's some pretty weak dmg. Unlike my BW counterpart...(bastids). So I'm AOE Destro spec'd. It's great! My AOE's hit hard. (they hit me nearly as hard)
Ok....so I have 2 decent damaging spell's. (Not counting chillwind, which I might add I still get smacked a hellahard for each application @100 DM. So don't gimme that "just spam it on everyone crap". Without a healer it's hard so survive my self harming abilities.....emo class for sure).

I suggest you roll on a different server and actually try playing a BW
They get no less combustion than you do... however the dots are very powerful when mixed with morale abilties but they have the penalty of doing less damage in their other lines. You will also notice however it takes 12 seconds to apply the basic volley of dots and debuffs to kill a single person, in this time you have done 2-3k damage aoe (based on 440int, t3 renown gear)
Before crying about nerfs perhaps get some perspective and ask yourself WHY every BW is speccing dots (and more to the point why arent you just raising your resist as every BW will be that spec)
It's the fact the other lines are poor, there is no choice unless you want to gimp yourself to spec dots


Do not play the underdog card, a sorc just like the BW is very powerful when used correctly
If a melee character reaches you, you SHOULD die thats the whole dynamic
However i agree with you, kiting and running away is severly broken because of throwing axes having a snare component on a relatively large range (50-60ft?), they should have their range severly nerfed to say 30-40ft so that it stops people escaping if you have them in your grasp but not kill someone at range trying to get away

 

[Thimble]

I suggest you roll on a different server and actually try playing a BW
They get no less combustion than you do... however the dots are very powerful when mixed with morale abilties but they have the penalty of doing less damage in their other lines. You will also notice however it takes 12 seconds to apply the basic volley of dots and debuffs to kill a single person, in this time you have done 2-3k damage aoe (based on 440int, t3 renown gear)
Before crying about nerfs perhaps get some perspective and ask yourself WHY every BW is speccing dots (and more to the point why arent you just raising your resist as every BW will be that spec)
It's the fact the other lines are poor, there is no choice unless you want to gimp yourself to spec dots


Do not play the underdog card, a sorc just like the BW is very powerful when used correctly
If a melee character reaches you, you SHOULD die thats the whole dynamic
However i agree with you, kiting and running away is severly broken because of throwing axes having a snare component on a relatively large range (50-60ft?), they should have their range severly nerfed to say 30-40ft so that it stops people escaping if you have them in your grasp but not kill someone at range trying to get away

Hello....CONTEXT alert. You my friend have completely taken what I've said out of context. Mostly what I wrote is just humor. However you are sadly mistaken if you believe that a "properly" played Sorc and a "properly" played BW are remotely close to being equal. And you are also not taking into consideration the population of both classes. In most scenario's you'll find that there are 5-6 BW's for every 2 Sorc's. Meaning that each BW doesn't usually focus on single targets. No, they each compound dots. The Sorc's dot line is shit. Pure and simple. We don't even have as many dots as a BW. And you debuff to your own dmg type which is something we can not do. Meaning your spells are mostly insta cast on the move. Yea granted if I'm left alone I can deal a lot of dmg. "IF I'm left alone" being the operative phrase here. My biggest damaging spells are either 3 sec cast or channeled. Your comparison of the 2 classes being equal if "played properly" is as weak as piss water.
If you want a comparison then look here.
The War Journal Blog Archive Bright Wizard and Sorceress; One Way Mirror?

I really like playing my Sorc. I've not played the "underdog" card nor have I ever mentioned any where that BW's need nerfed. Please read, then open your gob. Not the other way around.

 

[Heta]

I find Thimbles desciption on how TA works in his previous post, to be quite accurate, and humors

 

[Shike]

lol thimble

 

[Jess]

If you are a healer / caster, knockback simply isn't an issue if you stand with your back to the small rocks that are all over the play area.

The amount of times someone has attempted a knockback only for me to not move an inch and then they die because they keep trying and trying and trying and trying and never get the hint :kissit:

It IS funny how Tor Anroc makes the tanks stupid

Tried it several times in other scenarios now;

Im happily nuking a tank ... Tank spots me ... Runs towards me ... oh no ... <BAM> Only to knock me 200 meters further in front of him so I can continue nuking, instead of whacking me with his big whacky-thing.

 

[Chronictank]

Hello....CONTEXT alert. You my friend have completely taken what I've said out of context. Mostly what I wrote is just humor.

*Shurg* just looked like most the whine posted in "seriousness" on this forum so i failed to see the humour in it (unless it was sarcasm? :S), a mistake on my part i guess

As for context, it most certainly is in context comparing the 2 classes. The locations really has no bearing as you mentioned no level-specific differences

However you are sadly mistaken if you believe that a "properly" played Sorc and a "properly" played BW are remotely close to being equal.

I disagree, different specialities for different tactics
One is a single target dps at the cost of ae, the other better at mass damage at the cost of single target

And you are also not taking into consideration the population of both classes. In most scenario's you'll find that there are 5-6 BW's for every 2 Sorc's. Meaning that each BW doesn't usually focus on single targets. No, they each compound dots.

Complete tosh, the population balance has no relevance to the class itself
I am at a loss how you can even use that as an argument about class balance

The Sorc's dot line is shit. Pure and simple. We don't even have as many dots as a BW. And you debuff to your own dmg type which is something we can not do.

No.. its average, a magnus dot line is shit a sorc dot line is far from it
It is however inferior to a BW but then you are given more dps in dd and aoe

Meaning your spells are mostly insta cast on the move. Yea granted if I'm left alone I can deal a lot of dmg. "IF I'm left alone" being the operative phrase here. My biggest damaging spells are either 3 sec cast or channeled. Your comparison of the 2 classes being equal if "played properly" is as weak as piss water.

So you concede they DO do more damage, whether you are left alone or not is of little consequence as that put simply comes down to playstyle.
A BW needs to tick up their damage you have it at will, that is the difference and in a sense the balance. I have already conceded the dot stacking is a tad over the top however the difference is not as big as you like to pretend. I do agree there is a imbalance in dot cast times, some of the spells should be put on insta/bw counterparts put onto timed however the debuffs are the difference between the classes, you get tactic abilities to boost your dd we get them to boost our dots

If you want a comparison then look here.
The War Journal Blog Archive Bright Wizard and Sorceress; One Way Mirror?

If you want to put up an article to support your argument, i suggest you try a balanced one opposed to someone who very obviously biased and looking for faults while ignoring the benefits of his own class

If Bright Wizards were supposed to be the kings of DoT damage, then why are they also better than us at Direct Damage, and our AoE equals?

We both know that when you mix in tactics this statement is rubbish

I really like playing my Sorc. I've not played the "underdog" card nor have I ever mentioned any where that BW's need nerfed.

Mythic have been kind enough to give me dot's some pretty weak dmg. Unlike my BW counterpart...(bastids). So I'm AOE Destro spec'd. It's great! My AOE's hit hard. (they hit me nearly as hard)

Even the compliment to your class is half-hearted, hence i took it as a whine about being the lesser counterpart, reinforced by your next post

Please read, then open your gob. Not the other way around.

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

It aint rocket science.:lol:

Nothing in the game is, still many people fail at it, so I guess it's safe to say that his point remains valid, especially if you consider the overall simplicity and graphics of the game are catered for the players he described.

 

[`mongoose]

I love tor anroc

I love that my aoe knockback usually throw me into the lava and leave the tanks standing still - or leave me in the lava with a pissed off tank beside me

it puts a smile on my face everytime.

personally I have found that order seem to focus fire better. on the occasions where I get a "regular" tor anroc group and see players who I've played with before we tend to get very exciting tight games that can go either way.

When I get a bunch of people who I've never seen in tor anroc before I find we all perform worse

To address caster woes - we all have those horrible 3sec casts. If any healer is left unmolested for 3s they can drop a super heal on a player - normally most tanks can take 3s of beating from an enemy team so 2-3 healers can easily keep them up if unmolested. This is something quite a few order rune priests do very well at - sitting quietly off to one side topping those ironbreakers up and keeping that rain of knockbacks coming. If the healers die - the ironbreakers die and the knockbacks become irrelevent.

As regards sorcs - I've got a guildy who's got screenies of him beating bw dmg as a dot spec sorc. I've also been in scenarios with him where a combination of my bubble (which boosts dmg by 15% whilst active) and silly order people sitting in chokepoints has seen him exit with over 150k in damage. It's all about teamwork.

In most instances where I am I will actively hunt out sorcs and join their groups - if I can't get a sorc in my group I'll find a good high lvl tank or marauder and bubble them. It keeps the dps off them for a couple of seconds whilst I heal and an aoe marauder with +15% damage is a scary thing.

it's all about using the tactics that we have and working together as a team.

it's not a balance issue - if anything destro should still always win tor anroc as we're closer to the bauble and a marauder sprinting can always win the race unless there's an order premade with guild banner present.

M

 

[griralith]

Why not just remove lava or make it have no effect for instance? Voila, scenario fixed for all so the randoms can have some fun too. Not just GG's or the more blessed players that knows how to avoid everything that can be thrown at them. My points have nothing to do whether you play order or destro..

Your argument requires that everyone is an excellent player that knows exactly how everything works etc. Got some news for you, not everyone is an excellent player that knows how everything works, they just play to have some fun and guess what, scenarios like TA put them off the game.

Wish that people could drop the elite bullcrap some day and realise that not everyone is an uberelite soldier of doom that wants to dominate the world.. Think about the regular randoms too fgs, I bet those players are the bulk of the 750k that already bought the game and those are crucial for WAR's survival in the longrun, those do not think its fun to be punted into lava and slowly die whilst they can do nothing but die. They have stated that a thousand times by now and no, they dont care if they are order or if they are destro, they wanna play and have some fun, I know, its really hard to believe eh?..

Order and Destro fanbois should be publically hanged in their own pubics for their own stupidity. Exactly that way of thinking is one of the reasons why DAoC went apeshit after a while, would be cool if people wouldnt repeat that mistake.

seriously....... NO

it takes like 10 braincells to understand how Kb's work....

cant be bothered to comment rest even if i would, but good luck saving us all from the evil lava.

Ta is getting very borring but its still a good well made map imo, the problem is the gap between old Daoc players vs rest... on orrud we have a feast in Rp when we run guild grp only Delerium and IFA gives proper fights so far.

 

[Tiani]

am I the only one that likes TA then ? I dont think knock backs or pulling people into the lava is bugged, knockbacks into lava are making use of game mechanics, and only people who should really be getting knocked into lava are tanks, if you are RPDS or a healer and you are getting knocked back frequently then u suck

Tip; if you see a shaman running at your group, what you think hes doing ? AOE knock back thats what! get out the way!

Tablac Dam sucks, so does Highpass Cemetary, all the other ones are cool, TA and ToI being my favourites.

 

[Javai]

The TA scenario is a nightmare for a Sorc who needs to work themselves into a good position to get the most from their class, in TA this isn't possible you try to get around the side to go unnoticed for a few seconds and you'll end up in the lava due to an aoe knockback you just happen to be in range of.

The random rocks falling interupt casts - which doesn't matter for the instant dot spam. And the terrain means alot of the time pit of shades hits noone even if you've managed to position it correctly. There are other things a Sorc can be doing in this scenario, roots and disarms are top of my list on tanks in the hope that while they flail about someone on my side will knock them into the lava but these don't show up on damage stats at the end so contribute to the Sorc looking weak.

If this wasn't the only bloody scenario popping on a regular basis then Sorcs would seem more powerful, BWs slightly less so as there'd be a little less advanatge to the instants and there'd be alot less calls for a knockback nerf.