ToA - final blow to solo assassins

Salamurhaaja

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
Messages
326
Battlemaster - ML8 (bodyguard)

Any assassin or archer shouldn't be able to be battlemaster imo.
It's hard allready to fight 1vs2, but it's getting ridiculous soon.
 

Gorre

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Messages
389
i just hope all will /delete when toa arrives tbh :)
 

Vasconcelos

Part of the furniture
Joined
Dec 26, 2003
Messages
4,022
Imo, Bodyguard is the worst idea Mythic could have ever had. Not for the stealther world but for normal rvr.

Im really scared about a pbaeobox with 2 chanters/elds unkillable due to a bodyguard from hero and warden :eek6:
 

Gorre

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Messages
389
Vasconcelos said:
Imo, Bodyguard is the worst idea Mythic could have ever had. Not for the stealther world but for normal rvr.

Im really scared about a pbaeobox with 2 chanters/elds unkillable due to a bodyguard from hero and warden :eek6:
why?
because 2500 heavy armored pantzers will have to think twice now before storming a 1500hp paperwearing toon? :D
 

Night

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
749
Does bodyguard stop bolts or magic?
And the way tank rvr grps are going, almost all will have a theurg in grp who can nuke something :x
 

Vasconcelos

Part of the furniture
Joined
Dec 26, 2003
Messages
4,022
Gorre said:
why?
because 2500 heavy armored pantzers will have to think twice now before storming a 1500hp paperwearing toon? :D
Actually because they will have to think twice in less than 0.8secs (pbaoe cast time with the artifacts bonus) :p
 

Jox

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 3, 2004
Messages
723
I think PA, CD, SS, BS 1, BS 2 & TC should bypass Bodyguard also.

Or perhaps PA, BS 1 & BS 2 at least.

But I think Bodyguard is a excellent idea, giving mages a better chance to survive.
 

Khalen

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
200
Guess it's time for the nuke-age. End of the tank-age I think.
 

Tilda

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
5,755
Body guard is 100% INTERCEPT
Thus if 1 assasin uses it on another, you'll just end up hitting the other assasin. but while its being used, 1 of them can't melee, and the other can't move.
Its also broken on US servers.
 

Garbannoch

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 27, 2003
Messages
557
Khalen said:
Guess it's time for the nuke-age. End of the tank-age I think.
no it's time for the mixed group age - like it should have been from the start; I am SOOOO looking forward to ToA
 

nol

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 30, 2003
Messages
734
The final blow to assasins is when Mythic boots them out of the game all together. I'm sorry, but I can't find it in me to feel sorry for any assasins, they're a class born to grief, and griefers should be kicked in the balls.

QQ more imo.
 

Alithiel

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
648
There seem to be a few misconceptions about how bodyguard works. The following is taken from Vision of Sages, and gives players experience of how the ability works.

Bodyguard - Defensive chances (evade/parry) are reduced by 20%, but target of bodyguard can't be attacked in melee until bodyguard is killed or moves out of range.

The person being bodyguarded has to stand still (you can rotate, but you cannot move your feet). Don't af the bodyguard because the bodyguard guy can still move around within a certain range of the person he is bodyguarding. Casters can still interrupt and kill the person being bodyguarded, but melee attacks cannot touch him.
Bodyguard does not work in pve.

Extra Bodyguard checks are now made to prevent multiple/chained Bodyguards.
(from 1.67f release notes Jan 28)

"Can the person guarding still fight with weapons without breaking the guard?" Yes

"Can the person being guarded still fight with melee without breaking the guard?" if the person stands still. Jan 20
- Niila Soulblaze

If an enemy is attacking a bodyguarded person they will get the message "You have to kill <name>" which is the name of bodyguard. Jan 20
- Murphys

Bodyguard does work, just have to be within 500 units of the guarded person, who cannot move. The Bodyguard can move around and fight and still protect the person, and that person can cast and melee, just has to stand still. So, its very nice for guarding a healer/caster from assist train.
It doesn't seem to have a limit on how many people it can stop, the most I've seen is 5 people's spam at once when I used it to protect a pbae'er. Jan 20
- Meeligrum
Nowhere does it say the bodyguard actually takes any damage. As I understand it, they're trying to make you switch target - it would be kind of pointless if you can just continue swinging at the person being guarded to kill the bodyguard. The 'You must kill <name>' message that has been reported hints strongly at this being the case.

Both the bodyguard and the person being guarded can fight in melee, but the person being guarded must remain still in order not to take any damage.

The two things that aren't made clear in any description of bodyguard is whether it can be switched in combat, and if there any timers associated with its use. I'd certainly hope that there would be a timer to prevent a duo just switching bodyguard between each other as you change target.
 

Jox

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 3, 2004
Messages
723
nol said:
I'm sorry, but I can't find it in me to feel sorry for any assasins, they're a class born to grief, and griefers should be kicked in the balls.

QQ more imo.
I find all those xu-guided hib trains that add on 1versus1 fights between stealthers like the biggest griefers in game.
 

Herjulf

Banned
Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
673
Vasconcelos said:
Imo, Bodyguard is the worst idea Mythic could have ever had. Not for the stealther world but for normal rvr.

Im really scared about a pbaeobox with 2 chanters/elds unkillable due to a bodyguard from hero and warden :eek6:

And scared you should be, knowing the status on US servers.
Melee assisttrain is almost dead, and all realms run pbaoe/caster grps.

And about bolts and magic being blocked as one poster asked.

Bolts YES, nukes NO.
Disease, ae stun, obstruct view and interupts will be very important in the future RvR.
The long future RvR will change with our frontiers getting less actuall chokepoints.

So many many many inderect nerfs to assasains is coming.
And ofc direct ones with things like PN. And see hidden artifacts.

Stealth lore and + stealth will be more important in the future, as normal players will have great ease in detecting your prescense.

And the lack of rvr chokepoints will make it much harder for stealthers period. Moving in stealth is a pain, and soloing to get rps´s in a non chokepoint frontier = hell.

Imo new frontiers overall is VERY good, sux for assasains though, well all stealthers.
I am however glad for one thing about anti stealth, and that is the anti naturally "low"ish stealth of a minstrel and the new see hidded artifacts may balance things more.

Cuz atm inf+minc duo is godmode :/
 

nol

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 30, 2003
Messages
734
Jox said:
I find all those xu-guided hib trains that add on 1versus1 fights between stealthers like the biggest griefers in game.
but if there was no assasin class you wouldn't have to worry about them would you?

btw Jox, if it's 1v1 then they can't be griefing you alot :D
 

Talivar

Resident Freddy
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
2,050
Tilda it isnt a intercept.And also i havent heard any ppl say they actually notice any reduction in there block/parry ect while they are bodyguarding some1:)
 

Flimgoblin

It's my birthday today!
Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
8,324
pbaoe box with guards ain't moving anywhere - maybe you need to break out some ranged aoe nukes that everyone's been ignoring forever? (or assist and nuke down the pbaoers individually)

it's a powerful thing though - have to agree to that :)
 

Pandemic

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
Messages
142
Garbannoch said:
no it's time for the mixed group age - like it should have been from the start; I am SOOOO looking forward to ToA
it wont be that mixed post toa and especially after 1.68 its going to be caster pbaoe based grps with possibly 1 or 2 tanks in there for abilities like bodyguard only. i think playing a tank post toa is going to be purely as a shield for casters which wont be that interesting for the tanks.
 

Gordonax

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
1,095
The game changes, people have to adapt. No individual class will be any less viable than it is now, in the long run. In the short run, yes, of course, as Mythic irons out the inevitable issues - and they're patching a lot in the US to do just this.

People who say that ToA is the death of X are just thinking in terms of "OMG WTF!!!" tabloid headlines. Instead of thinking about how they can combat new things, or use other new things to their advantage, they are just trying to cling to old ways of playing.

Adapt or die. That's what makes the game fun :)
 

PJS

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 16, 2004
Messages
494
Pandemic said:
it wont be that mixed post toa and especially after 1.68 its going to be caster pbaoe based grps with possibly 1 or 2 tanks in there for abilities like bodyguard only. i think playing a tank post toa is going to be purely as a shield for casters which wont be that interesting for the tanks.
Tusk seems to enjoy it

Also, does a melee swing at a bodyguarded char interrupt them?
 

Gahlzor

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 8, 2004
Messages
47
PJS said:
Also, does a melee swing at a bodyguarded char interrupt them?
Afaik, no.

Or.. I don't think you actually are able to swing at all on a bodyguarded person. If that is the case you can't answer this question with a no. :m00:
 

Hotrats

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
Messages
192
Bodyguard really worries me, sounds like a kinda 100% chance guard, "you cannot hit target until you kill such and such". I can see this working very well in a pbae group like most people have mentioned, and we all know that hib pbae groups are so much better than other realms atm.

This patch tank groups are fairly balanced, mids being slightly better, albs being generally the worst unless BoF or SoS is up (which then makes them the best) and hibs relying too much on a bard making them a little vulnerable (GP can be nice still for support though and druid pets are a great asset if used well). Consider all 3 groups and most have the same skill set; a guarder (also bodyguarder), a mezzer, a rooter, healing classes, multiple weapon tanks, speed etc. Mids get the best access to disease but generally each group can do the same as the other.

Now consider the caster groups, the fundamental flaw for alb and mid atm is cc lasting ~30secs+. You can use individual purge but then if you MoC you are vulnerable to stun. In fact being mezzed for even just 10 seconds (insta mezz) can put an end to your fight (or at least 2 group members), GP is the perfect RA to combat this as is determination 4 or 5.
Another problem is the utility spread, hibs get speed, ae mezz and end regen on the bard, albs must use 3 or often use 2 and sacrafice end regen in their caster groups, mids must also use 3 classes however at least the shaman also provides disease (and resist buffs) and gives the possibility of perma sprint + aug healer speed and drop the skald.
The other major problem for albs is resist buffs, without a friar (who is very redundant in a pbae group) albs lack heat, cold and matter resists. In a pbae vs pbae fight having all resist buffs as opposed to half can be a huge advantage. Also a ice wiz has a cold damage pbae, which 99% of the time faces 16% resists, energy is very often only 8% for alb as is spirit (although 40r 36e 3s is possible most clerics prefer 41r 35e 3s).
I look at the 2 sorc 2 wiz 2 cleric 1 mins setup for alb and I wonder what would be best for the last spot? In fact what is needed is a friar (resists), a paladin (end regen), a armsman (determination guarder), a theurg (pbt) and a cabalist (disease). The utility spread for alb is insane and the lack of classes with bodyguard is very worrying.
Hibs also have access to BaoD but unlike albs who will prolly lose vs mid/hib tank groups without BoF (or SoS) I think hibs could win a fight quite easily vs another pbae group without BaoD.
I also assume bodyguard does not work while mezzed, which is a major bummer for albs assuming a paladin gets bodyguard.

However TOA isn't on EU yet and I still no very little about all the new features it introduces (items with determination?), so I guess I will just wait and see.
 

Tay

Grumpy old fecker
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
1,305
Herjulf said:
And scared you should be, knowing the status on US servers.
Melee assisttrain is almost dead, and all realms run pbaoe/caster grps.

And about bolts and magic being blocked as one poster asked.

Bolts YES, nukes NO.
Disease, ae stun, obstruct view and interupts will be very important in the future RvR.
The long future RvR will change with our frontiers getting less actuall chokepoints.

So many many many inderect nerfs to assasains is coming.
And ofc direct ones with things like PN. And see hidden artifacts.

Stealth lore and + stealth will be more important in the future, as normal players will have great ease in detecting your prescense.

And the lack of rvr chokepoints will make it much harder for stealthers period. Moving in stealth is a pain, and soloing to get rps´s in a non chokepoint frontier = hell.

Imo new frontiers overall is VERY good, sux for assasains though, well all stealthers.
I am however glad for one thing about anti stealth, and that is the anti naturally "low"ish stealth of a minstrel and the new see hidded artifacts may balance things more.

Cuz atm inf+minc duo is godmode :/
Cant stealters also use items to get stealth to insane levels?

I understood that whilst non stealthers/stealthers could get items to effectivly boost their own stealth levels (Even if its from 0) the stealthers themselves could also benefit from stealth items effectivly boosting their own stealth, currently my Infil has 35+16 (I know I know, cba to respect atm because of what TOA means to solers)

So it seems as if its a "stealthers have to get more stealth to stay in the game" I seriously think that they'll be a loss to the game, fg vs fg will also be history too, why travel as a fg when you can travel as a big feck orf BG.

Its one way to reduce the effects of a serious ML grp.
 

Salamurhaaja

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
Messages
326
After people seen Bonehead's video, I'd expect few BD groups start froming after ToA.
 

Tay

Grumpy old fecker
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
1,305
Salamurhaaja said:
After people seen Bonehead's video, I'd expect few BD groups start froming after ToA.
As is happening with Animists I suspect.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top Bottom