TOA and L33t!sts killed DAOC

[flex]

i have to agree with sharpo, most albs are to lazy to try to make a nice group themselves. If i log on & dont get an invite first 10 min @ atk, i try to make a nice grp (= pm some ppl i know). I try that for like 30 min, by that time i mostly know if i'm gonne get a fg within the hour; if not, i just log off again.

a little tip in my own experience: start with pm'ing ppl u know play good & see how many of those u can get; Tell them you will pm them if you have a full group, so they don't lose 30 min waiting @ apk with the chance there won't be a group afterall.
And don't gimp you group, ppl might think you are "leet" or whatever, but there is just no point going out with 7, or some gimped setup u know won't work

 

[Vodkafairy]

the people who spend more time on daoc and show more dedication are better and dominate rvr, it isn't all that strange

true the difference is too big, but for gods sake show some dedication.. throwing a couple xbow armsmen, matter cabbies and wizards in a group is never going to work in emain, tough shit, make a proper group setup or a semi-proper one and run 2 fg. do whatever you enjoy but dont make you insta lose

or take your matter cabby to a keep raid, that should be fun, and nobody is stopping anyone from taking fens or scat or whatever.. casual players love that, don't they? then do it more often instead of giving up so easily

 

[Pin]

Sorry Zoy, you make some decent points, but still spout quite a lot of bollocks

1. Before TOA, casual gamers were able to compete.

Nope, they couldn't "compete", they were repeatedly farmed in massive numbers. After ToA there's just SOOOO much fewer casual players in RvR because they're elsewhere (largely either enjoying the PvE more, or just being slower through it than powergamers).

The commitment to get 7/8 artifacts and level them to lvl 10 makes u depend on other people. For the casual gamer, who can't log in everyday at the same time, means alot off begging, basically. The whole task is very daunting. It's not like when DAOC first came out, and u could solo to 50 if u wanted then go RvR.

Casual gamers don't have any commitment to get 7/8 artifacts, that's only something powergamers even think about.

2. Leeters obsessed with Fg v Fg fighting, and absolute optimum group setups, have made RvR impractical.

Leeters have never obsessed with fg v fg fighting. It's always about gaining the max amount of RPs - typically this means running themselves in a fg and farming as many less-equipped/skilled/practiced people as possible, while occasionally getting some evenly-matched fights thrown in.

What this means is ATK is basically empty.

ATK is largely quieter than before, because the populace is in PvE. It's the same with MPK and Ligen. I tend to get bored with RvR atm mainly because there's so few enemies about.

The only people RvRing is BF/FC tank group and our mage group.

They aren't the only people RvRing. But ofc, you only notice the people you chat with daily.

People that don't enter these 2 groups are left at ATK stranded without a group for hours on end. They can't leave ATK without being slaughtered.

I don't think you'll find any 'casual gamers' prepared to stand at ATK for hours on end (they get up and do something, anything, with their short time in-game or log and do something more important) and they never have - the people stood at ATK for hours are 'leeters' without their friends.

Lets take Jacina Sash for example. Its a challenge to get the Art, then 3 scrolls, then the ridiculous time to Exp it to lvl 10.

Well, Sash is a piece of cake to get if you know how. We farm it in <1fg, and often without a single tank. Scrolls are dirt-cheap. Levelling it is a royal pain though.
Hardly the point though - casual gamers wouldn't even consider the thing.

Then u need Erinys, pain to get, especially for the casual, who doesn't really have a strong network.

Who "needs Erinys" ? Erinys/Tablet are only considered "needed" by powergamers, trying to max out their resist-pierce. Come 1.70 pierce is capped at 10% anyway so charm/tablet/sash are dubious requirements anyway.



My main point is that powergamers (yourself included, Zoy), rarely have any concept of what a casual gamer is, does, thinks, or expects. And very few people reading and posting on FH are 'casual gamers' - even fewer reading/posting in the RvR section.

 

[Aussie]

Erinys got so much more then pierce

 

[Gordonax]

alb logic, what i meant is, cant they form balanced grps by themselves, instead of sitting at atk all day? they deserve it if they cba trying tbh.

What he means is there's no one else at ATK to make a group with. I've seen this for myself - at ATK these days, there's guild groups, and a handful of others who have a choice of making an unbalanced group, soloing (only possible if you're a class that can solo realistically), or logging.

ATK Emain really is deserted half the time these days - apart from pre-formed guild groups and a sack load of buffbots. I used to run with randoms quite a bit, both for a bit of fun and because I like meeting and playing with new people, but these days it's pretty much pointless - I wait 20 mins and go off soloing instead. And I'm a "group friendly" class!

 

[Vodkafairy]

use fh to make rvr groups then

 

[Flimgoblin]

Casual gamers don't have any commitment to get 7/8 artifacts, that's only something powergamers even think about.

Erp how did I become a powergamer?

that said I have gimp artifacts

There's different types of casual/powergamer though:

Casual outlook - rather group with anyone, happy to let a lower level gimp into the group as long as they're friendly etc. will group with their guildies no matter what the spec/class.

Casual playtime - only 2-3 hours a few days a week, obviously you need to pick a line somewhere as to what "casual" playtime is

"powergamer" outlook - must be the best, reroll that gimpy class to the new fotm, make sure your template is perfect, don't group that second fire wiz - instead waiting for the minstrel or whatever you need to login.

"powergamer" playtime - 4 hours + a night

I'd class myself as casual outlook with powergamer playtime (on the lesser end I'm not a 24/7 gamer but I'm not a 2-3 hours a month gamer either)

I expect the outlook categories aren't as black and white as I make out either - hrm should make some personality test that makes you a little dot on a graph somewhere.

(kinda like the explorer achiever killer socialiser thingie or whatever it was)

I'd imagine there's a third axis in there too - you can be a power gamer and only do PvE - trying to make all your chars in artifact suits at ML10 just to have done it. Or the fellow that collected every single artifact and every single scroll (prydwen dude). So probably a PVP axis in there - I'd not place myself very high on it, probably around the mid-level.

TOA has had two effects on RvR:
1. the power/power crowd are more powerful than they were before - there was a plateau they would reach before, that plateau has been raised higher (to include things like zephyr and bodyguard and grapple spamming) - now the casual/power and power/casual crowd are getting there but at a slower rate either due to not focusing the same or not playing the same amount.

2. less of the non-power/power crowd are in RvR - some have only so much time to play, some want to go exploring - either way it's less of their time in emain or wherever. That means that when they do go there without their top of the line setups they're meeting a much smaller %age of similarly equipped enemies and get splatted a bigger %age of the time. This leads to them not wanting to go there as much and is somewhat self-repeating.

That's my analysis anyway

 

[Tay]

This is because Mythic wants to compete with EverQuest, plain and simple.

2-3 years down the road they are still failing..

 

[Pin]

Erinys got so much more then pierce

power+hp regen? not exactly going to make a difference.
+range? can be found on much simpler-to-get artifacts.
60 utility? good for an artifact, merely decent in general.

Yes, it's got other stuff, but it's only really the pierce which makes it a must-have (for powergamers).

 

[vintervargen]

tsk, what exactly stops non-rvr guilds to go in 2fg? you know that can be very fair vs an opted GG. but nooooooooooooooooooo, albs either go in 1fg, or 7.

geee, i wonder who teached them that.

if anything killed daoc rvr, its you and the **** nukenin.

 

[Clipse]

what's your point Pin ? I don't know what a casual gamer is ? and have no right to comment on them ? k fine.

However u look at it, Without those 7/8 artifacts, u got no chance.....

ok jacina is easy to get, grats, 1 brownie point for j000

The idea is to play for fun, but when l33ters try to dictate how u play, it spoils the fun.

I know for fact, that alot of people who used to RvR, don't anymore, so they now play just to PvE which is fun for them, or they just quit the game.

 

[Flimgoblin]

2-3 years down the road they are still failing..

I dunno - taking most of Everquest's projected growth into your new game is quite good

DAOC still doesn't have quite so many subscribers as EQ but they're certainly "competing"

this analysis is quite interesting:
http://pw1.netcom.com/~sirbruce/Subscriptions.html

 

[Gordonax]

i have to agree with sharpo, most albs are to lazy to try to make a nice group themselves. If i log on & dont get an invite first 10 min @ atk, i try to make a nice grp (= pm some ppl i know). I try that for like 30 min, by that time i mostly know if i'm gonne get a fg within the hour; if not, i just log off again.

I get your point, but I think I'm a prime example of a casual gamer, in that I rarely play in sessions of longer than 3 hours (finish work at 6, by the time I eat and do stuff it's 8, then three hours till 11 and I need to start thinking about bed because I have work the next day). In a three hour play session, I'm not prepared to wait 40 mins - a quarter of the whole time I've got to play - making a group. Especially as you can be certain that someone will have to log after a bit and you'll have to start all over again.

But having said all that, I have to disagree with the overall idea that ToA and l33tists have killed DAoC. The last few times I've played, we've taken a group of guildies to HW and had some really, really good fights with groups from Mid and Hib who're obviously in the same position - got a few artifacts and MLs, but aren't ubber twinked out "l33t" toons. You can tell this because in three nights play, I haven't seen a single Zephyr or grapple used! Of course, sooner or later the gank groups will smell blood and come for some easy RPs... erm I mean "fair fights" of course... but then we'll just move on somewhere else. Odins. Maybe even emain, you never know.

 

[Gordonax]

use fh to make rvr groups then

Have you seen some of the people on here? Would you really wanna group with them?

 

[Tay]

2) Alb exca is very selfish, on exception from some no one will jsut go port to ToA and help a guy out with a artifact. Because he wont get any better on it himself. It's true, dont go denie this with some fancy words!

lol, I have asked and got several times on /as support from my fellow albs, maybe its just you! I dont think that I have ever struggled to get an artifact more than Nailahs, its do able with 2 people but the bastard mob was never up or Zoy was always killing it

3) When in RvR, you need to be OPTIMAL, on other servers are only GG's optimal and normal fg's have some " L337 " skill's but arent "nolby pride" like.

Bollocks do you need to be optimal, if you want to win every single fight you gotta run in FOTM and imho boring mode, if you want RVR you can do it a multitude of ways and enjoy it too. Both solo and duo and fg.

On other servers High RR people aren't scared to group with a rr2 chanter / druid orsomething like that!
On excalibur albion you will not see any high realm rank people in a low rr group. And there won't be any rr4- people in a high rr group!

What I'm beginging to hate the most about people in DAOC from all realms is the gross generalisations that take place, there is thousands of people in all realms, and hundreds of guilds, your sheltered experience of some of these shows through, many other people have not had the same problems.

High realm rank people rather duo then be in a low rr fg!

<sigh> generalising again...

On other servers people don't care what rr they group with, this way you get faster fg vs fg experience and are there less nuubs in rvr from your realm!

<sigh> generalising again...

 

[Gordonax]

tsk, what exactly stops non-rvr guilds to go in 2fg? you know that can be very fair vs an opted GG. but nooooooooooooooooooo, albs either go in 1fg, or 7.
.

Have you actually tried playing 2fg against a fully ToA'd-out gank group? You're dead meat, in only a tiny amount more than if you ran in 1fg. 4fg and you're a better match, but will still often lose.

 

[Tay]

Wow, what a bunch of retards. Still havent figured out the whole concept of MMORPGs in general is to make the player waste as much time as possible, on shit that you wont need with next patch, so the makers can get more money? The game hasnt been fun in 1½ years, I still kept playing for some time not that seriously, only logging in a few times a week when someone got me from IRC, thinking "hey, atleast I can still RvR". But then it suddenly struck me, RvR wasnt fun, it was boring like hell, same thing everynight, even the best groups were boring, no thrill in killing high RR groups or wiping 5 fg's at the same time, even higher rr zergs. So I quit completely, and everyone who doesnt quit, is a fucking retard. I know most of you dont even enjoy the game, you just whine but are too addicted and pussyass to actually quit

(triggered by Zoyster's wondering why Mythic thinks people wasting time on the game is fun, for them anyway)

Maybe some people have fun playing, maybe some poeple dont feel the need to WTFPWN everything in sight, maybe just maybe nobody gives a fuck what you think..maybe some lemmings do I dont really care.

So what do you do now?

Go out drinking with you mates? You rent the booze and daoc is still cheaper.
Pretend you have a meaningful life? Maybe some of us have been there and done that a long time before you.
Still feel the need to participate in DAOC even tho it fucking bores you so much? now thats retarded mate!.

Before you tell other people how retarded they are, look a little closer to home and ask yourself why you are still here!.

 

[Flimgoblin]

Have you actually tried playing 2fg against a fully ToA'd-out gank group? You're dead meat, in only a tiny amount more than if you ran in 1fg. 4fg and you're a better match, but will still often lose.

not to mention that 4fg is not 4 times the power of 1fg - if you could get them all assisting in the same direction then yes, but we're talking casual gamers here

Someone on VN I think it was had an amusing sig:
The IQ of a zerg is equal to the IQ of the leader minus 1 for every other member in it.

It's kinda true - the more people around you you get a false sense of security and let your guard down.

Which is probably why when you get 5fg together they're generally easy meat for a mezz/pbaoe bomb....

 

[Flimgoblin]

Wow, what a bunch of retards. Still havent figured out the whole concept of MMORPGs in general is to make the player waste as much time as possible, on shit that you wont need with next patch, so the makers can get more money? The game hasnt been fun in 1½ years, I still kept playing for some time not that seriously, only logging in a few times a week when someone got me from IRC, thinking "hey, atleast I can still RvR". But then it suddenly struck me, RvR wasnt fun, it was boring like hell, same thing everynight, even the best groups were boring, no thrill in killing high RR groups or wiping 5 fg's at the same time, even higher rr zergs. So I quit completely, and everyone who doesnt quit, is a fucking retard. I know most of you dont even enjoy the game, you just whine but are too addicted and pussyass to actually quit

(triggered by Zoyster's wondering why Mythic thinks people wasting time on the game is fun, for them anyway)

yet you still troll this forum?

 

[vintervargen]

Have you actually tried playing 2fg against a fully ToA'd-out gank group? You're dead meat, in only a tiny amount more than if you ran in 1fg. 4fg and you're a better match, but will still often lose.

then why of why dont the newbie albs port odins, where they can fight newbie hibs? too hard to find the right necklace?

 

[Pin]

tsk, what exactly stops non-rvr guilds to go in 2fg? you know that can be very fair vs an opted GG. but nooooooooooooooooooo, albs either go in 1fg, or 7.

geee, i wonder who teached them that.

if anything killed daoc rvr, its you and the **** nukenin.

Well... 2fg 'randoms' means a decent chance for you to get 4k rps. Of course you'd be happy for that. 7fg means you lose, so you QQ

 

[Flimgoblin]

then why of why dont the newbie albs port odins, where they can fight newbie hibs? too hard to find the right necklace?

that'd be the RR8 newbie hibs in crocform camping amg with 2fg and 2000000000 mushrooms?

fights in emain are more balanced some nights

 

[Tay]

I dunno - taking most of Everquest's projected growth into your new game is quite good

DAOC still doesn't have quite so many subscribers as EQ but they're certainly "competing"

this analysis is quite interesting:
http://pw1.netcom.com/~sirbruce/Subscriptions.html

The day in day out rvr drive is going to push many away, encounters that do not challenge that simply are a means to an end suck, the gameplay in EQ is so much better, its intuitive and frankly fun, although the original gfx is erm interesting EQ2 is set to rock, the stuff so far looks promising, I'll more than likely give it a go, I have done everything in DAOC that I want, According to Belo anyway, had the whine thread ML10, it really was a pretty complete list

As it stands at the moment daoc is very visually appealing, but when a chanter is ripping you a new one the grass looks very same'y.

I'll read the webby when I get a chance ta.

 

[vintervargen]

2fg albs can be anything from 100% death to 100% victory, depending on the number of theurgists/sorcs/cabbys that doesn't sit in the next room watching TV when they are in emain..

 

[Gordonax]

then why of why dont the newbie albs port odins, where they can fight newbie hibs? too hard to find the right necklace?

Some do, which is why Odin's has been much busier lately. But seeing as we're talking about Emain, your point isn't really relevant.

 

[Z^^]

Zoyster is right actually.
Noone wanna be rp fodder and not even 2fg stand much chance vs good played fully opted toa grps, and whos fault maybe its the leet players or the designers.

 

[Gordonax]

2fg albs can be anything from 100% death to 100% victory, depending on the number of theurgists/sorcs/cabbys that doesn't sit in the next room watching TV when they are in emain..

Wow, you have cameras in the homes of every Alb all of a sudden!

It's great when someone who really doesn't know what they're talking about just starts to lean on prejudice, isn't it?

 

[Freppe]

Im one of those clerics zoy is talking about. Why I dont make a grp all comes down to one thing. A thing zoy is also usually looking for is MIND sorc. The other day, at saturday I think, we looked for a mind sorc for 5-6 hrs before we actually logged. That was with zoy/outs grp. Thats the main problem for alb.
Lets see, these are the minds sorcs that ive seen in RvR the last month:
Tahn, grping with BF regulary anyway.
Fexx, random mind sorc with no ToA. Usually have alot of grps going but cant rly compete cus of non-toa rly.
Nervion, holidays etc and will take a while to get back, often in Zoy's grp anyway.
Aniara, also in zoys grp if nervion aint on etc.
Dreams, been on once in ages tbh.
Rnp, vacation or smth ? Draylor said he'd be gone for a while and havent seen him for 3+ weeks. Usually grp with zoy or HB.
Serious, HB.

These are the mind sorcs avaiable, I rly dont see its possible to make grps when they got regular grps or aint playing that much.
I just dont wanna spend 124546hrs looking for a random one that will leave the round after anyway. It will be sum months more before there will be some more ppl out. Mebbe I shud stop renewing til then, dno.

<shud do a mind sorc rly, gives you 100% rvr 24/7, if thats what you want>

 

[decker]

[DELETE] Y-E-S ! And go to play to some other realm. The fact is that excalibur albs are our heroes

 

[Pin]

However u look at it, Without those 7/8 artifacts, u got no chance.....

My point is it's nothing to do with those artifacts - a strong, regular guild-group would kick the shit out of a group of random casual gamers whatever. Eevn if the randoms had artifacts, and the GG didn't have a single piece of ToA gear in the group.
Having those artifacts has more to do with you having a chance against other similar opposing groups.

The idea is to play for fun, but when l33ters try to dictate how u play, it spoils the fun.

No arguments there. That's how I always play.