To vegetarians

[old.job]

Modern domestic cattle evolved from a single early ancestor, the aurochs. In addition to prehistoric painting that help us identify the appearance of the auroch the species actually survived until relatively modern times. It is believed the last surviving member of the species was killed by a poacher in 1627 on a hunting reserve near Warsaw, Poland. The species may have survived in small number in other parts of the world until a later date but there is no evidence to support this theory.

Amazin innit, saw a pic but it won't link, just looks like highland cattle to me.

 

[Addlcove]

I´ve worked at a place where they had Islandic cows (was a tourist attraction) and those cows LOOK exactly like the normal cows of today, albeit somewhat smaller

for those of you unknowing no cattle/horse or any other animals (maybe except cats/dogs) has been allowed imported to island since 930 or so..... the cows/horses on island is a pure strain of the cows/horses that excisted back in the year 900.

 

[ormorof]

but humans have been farming cattle for about 2000+ years now

 

[Cyradix]

Modern humans tend to be more into post farming.....

 

[Wij]

We farm these green pastures with pride.

 

[Arnor]

Originally posted by Wij
We farm these green pastures with pride.

stop daydreaming and get the tractor going wij damnit!

 

[Arnor]

Originally posted by Addlcove
I´ve worked at a place where they had Islandic cows (was a tourist attraction) and those cows LOOK exactly like the normal cows of today, albeit somewhat smaller

for those of you unknowing no cattle/horse or any other animals (maybe except cats/dogs) has been allowed imported to island since 930 or so..... the cows/horses on island is a pure strain of the cows/horses that excisted back in the year 900.

you say that like its a good thing


"How the hell did you get here?"
"-Generations of inbreeding sir"

 

[Annouk]

For thousands of years we have been eating meat, yes, but it was out of neccessity. We hunted to survive. Now we have the means to survive without killing animals in the process.

And our bodies have only adapted to eat meat, they are not designed for it. We have far more molars than canine teeth, which enables us to grind corn and wheat more than tear at meat. Our digestive system is also so long because vegetables and cereals have more fibre and take longer to digest.

There is no reason anymore why we should continue to kill animals either for fun or for food. The same amount of land needed to graze cattle can produce approximately twenty times the amount of plant crops. Crops are also much less expensive to grow and maintain compared to the cost of producing animals. About 70% of crops grown in the US are fed to animals and not to humans. Meanwhile, a child dies of starvation somewhere in the world every two seconds.

In other words TURN VEGGIE!!!!

 

[old.Tohtori]

Originally posted by Annouk

In other words TURN VEGGIE!!!!

Oooh....go suck on a carrot you veggieloving freak! I'll get back to the cow soon but in the meanwhile i want to say that look at the cromagnon(or whatchumacallit) man and you'll notice that those teeth weren't made for chewing corn or sucking on cucumbers. And you'll realise that maybe the human mind needs a bit more challenge then creeping up to a carrot and slicing it's throat.

Oh the thrills!

People want to kill stuff(don't deny it, be it fucked up or not) and by gods allmighties and their underwear we have been given the knowledge to kill stuff even more efficiently. In this modern day, no fucking dinomasaurus would mess with our cave. No sirree! And we can even shoot the paleontologists if they claim otherwise.

Now, to the point. A cow is a cow and all it can say is Moo. I don't think that in that peanut sized thing it calls a brain, using efficiently all it's braincell activity, it will hardly go:

"Oh gee. That man is sticking a needle in me. Oh gee wiz i do feel sleepy. Hmm, what's that light i see...mommie?"

It won't! When someone introduces the, not so good, end of a shotgun to a cow or even a chicken for overkill effect, they cluck away or whateverthehell chickens do and the cow will, without a doubt, say:

"Moo."

"Moo?"

or nothing at all. I don't go around saving carrots, cucumbers and other kind of veggies so for all the "Don't eat meat it's cruel!" people around i flip a bird, kill it with a rock and eat it. Go ask a neandertal about his food habbits and cooking advice, then you can claim what's natural and what's not. All i say is, when i take a bite of a juicy fat piece of lamb, chicken or ham it feels so damn good going down. When i bite a carrot i get this, "What the fuck just happened and who violated who's mother" feeling.

*nods*

 

[Annouk]

talkin bout Neanderthals doesnt prove anything, they HAD to hunt animals to survive, they didnt have the knowledge (or climate) to farm crops or veg.

 

[old.Tohtori]

And those guys knew what they were doing. Good mammoth, nice meat, big food supply + fur and stuff. It's an plethera of resources for the modern day caveman.

Only thing that stuck across the generations is the taste for meat and it's good. Meat has a lot of minerals that veggies don't. You -can- survive without it but the -perfect- diet has meat, veggies and all that other crap.

Meat is a part of humanlife. I don't go saying "don't eat veggies" veggiebiters shouldn't come to me saying "don't eat meat"

Fair? Fair. I thought so.

EDIT: Oh and...we have to hunt animals if we want the prime meat Like bears and stuff.

 

[Annouk]

i dont push bein veggie on anyone, (ok except in that one post but that was half joking). I think its a free world and ppl should be able to make their own decisions but they should have all the facts before they do. Most ppl arent aware of the health issues associated with eating meat (or for that matter how to be a healthy veggie).

Just think ppl should think more about things first. Personally im the sort of veggie that most ppl hate since i don meat cuz i think its cruel and unneccessary... but thats just my opninion.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Erm...didn't notice what i said about meat giving more protein/minerals that veggies can't and thus being a part of a daily meal?

I would like to know what the hazards of eating meat are?

And if i think about it, i still eat it.

Ok, this steak on my plate once was a happy bunny, hopping away, humping his girliefriend in a hole. Then a hunter came, shot it's head with a shotgun, made a fine steak and now i can enjoy it. Still tastes yummy!

 

[Annouk]

"The human body is unable to deal with excessive amounts of animal fat and cholesterol. A poll of 214 scientists doing research on arteriosclerosis in 23 countries showed almost total agreement that there is a link between diet, serum cholesterol levels, and heart disease. When a person eats more cholesterol than the body needs (as he usually does with a meat-centered diet), the excess cholesterol gradually becomes a problem. It accumulates on the inner walls of the arteries, constricts the flow of blood to the heart, and can lead to high blood pressure, heart disease, and strokes."

"Why do meat-eaters seem more prone to these diseases? One reason given by biologists and nutritionists is that man's intestinal tract is simply not suited for digesting meat. Flesh-eating animals have short intestinal tracts (three times the length of the animal's body), to pass rapidly decaying toxin-producing meat out of the body quickly. Since plant foods decay more slowly than meat, plant-eaters have intestines at least six times the length of the body. Man has the long intestinal tract of a herbivore, so if he eats meat, toxins can overload he kidneys and lead to gout, arthritis, rheumatism and even cancer."

"As for the protein question, Dr. Paavo Airo, a leading authority on nutrition and natural biology, has this to say: "The official daily recommendation for protein has gone down from the 150 grams recommended twenty years ago to only 45 grams today. Why? Because reliable worldwide research has shown that we do not need so much protein, that the actual daily need is only 35 to 45 grams. Protein consumed in excess of the actual daily need is not only wasted, but actually causes serious harm to the body and is even causatively related to such killer diseases as cancer and heart disease. In order to obtain 45 grams of protein a day from your diet you do not have to eat meat; you can get it from a 100 percent vegetarian diet of a variety of grains, lentils, nuts, vegetables, and fruits.""

all taken from http://www.webcom.com/~ara/col/books/VEG/hkvc1.html

 

[old.Tohtori]

Key words:

Excessive amounts.

can obtain from fruits and such.

It's still not said that eating a steak and not a whole cow is hazardous.

In any case, i eat what i want, move as much as i want and die the day i die.

I don't -push- myself to doing something just because it might be healthier. Also the effects of eating meat are on a personal basis in my opinion. I've eaten more meat then one normally would. A regular velociraptor of the human world. My bloodworks, last time they were checked, were as healthy as a they can be. Eating meat hasn't caused anything wrong in my life.

I see that some 300 lbs fairy with an obsession to eat a cow for breakfast and wash it down with some donuts might get ganked by heartdisease but it's not the case with every man woman and donkey.

It's more of a moral issue i believe. Some say it's wrong to the animals, so don't eat it. Some couldn't care less about some cow named bessy getting slashed into nice bits of potato dressing and the eat it. Go figure.

 

[Annouk]

just out of curiosity Tohtori, wots ur view on hunting? (fox etc)

 

[Validus]

okok u get the milk from the cow, but then why waste it? better die and get some nice person a big juicy steak than just die and let those puny insects tear your flesh apart. not only that, u die young, and you don't have to suffer old age. cows have no other use than milk, we just came up with one helluva way to get more stuff out of 'em.

 

[Wij]

Originally posted by Annouk
just out of curiosity Tohtori, wots ur view on hunting? (fox etc)

Foxes are vermin. Happy to be rid of em. Course you didn't ask me but I'm with the seel on meat.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Originally posted by Annouk
just out of curiosity Tohtori, wots ur view on hunting? (fox etc)

Don't try and twist this into an "Aaaaha! You don't like that then how can you justify this?!"

But, Twist Orno Twist(folksinger from nebulus prime), i don't like foxhunting because i like foxes as an animal.

I don't eat foxes either, well, not daily since it's damn hard to find if i even wanted it. If someone offered me a foxsteak then i'd probly cobble it down. Also i have this old thing in my head about respecting dead animals by consuming their flesh. American stuff..you know...the real americans.

Anyway, my turn to ask!

Annouk, do you eat fish? *grin*

 

[Annouk]

no i dont eat fish, if u eat fish then u aint vegetarian u are just someone who doesnt eat red meat (a pesco-vegetarian to be precise)

and i wasnt trying to twist the converstaion was just curious. Plenty of ppl dont agree with hunting but still eat meat.

 

[Ekydus]

If vegetarians are so sure on everything why are there so many different types and exceptions?
You don't eat meat but you can eat fish.
You don't eat meat except on a Sunday.
You don't eat meat but you eat dairy produce.
You don't eat meat or anything animal based at all.

The whole basis of a vegetarian is certainly a moral issue. You can't drink milk because the cow next door didn't find it conveniant. If it was about an animal feeling uncomfortable then you should also be objecting the human race. Every day millions of people go to work or school and in the majority of cases they hate what they do, they find it annoying and uncomfortable. Different surrounding but the same basic argument none-the-less. Now you get the animals that are kept in a cage and then are butchered slowly. This is undeserving. However is this truly enough to turn your back on being human? Yes, It is known that the majority of vegetarians are actually less healthy then the average meat eater. They do not get the proteins from the meat for a healthy diet and you can actually see they look ill. Most vegetarians end up having to turn to medical science to support themselves on pills and such, which just proves that eating meat is a way of life. I doubt the Lion had to stop and think about the morality of killing that Deer for it's family now. The food chain exists and no matter how many vegetarians exist it isn't going to change. I like the taste of meat and even though I understand the reasons why vegetarians turn their back I still wouldn't do it myself. Not many vegetarians even know what they are getting themselves into... They make their own little stand or what-have-you and then they go buy a packet of Haribo to celebrate. Now incase you don't know Haribo and most sweet products like this contain pig glutogen... this is very hard to notice unless you read the packet and I also find a life of reading labels rather stupid aswell.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Annouk, halfjoking about the twist of conversation

I have to say that most animals that eat meat are not used as foodmeat for people.

We only eat veggieeaters.

This might one day lead to the killing of veggie-eating people for food. Afterall that's how things work. Lions don't usually hunt panthers, they eat the veggieterians.

 

[Annouk]

did u actually read any of the facts i just posted Eky?? Vegetarians on the whole tend to be far healthier than meat eaters (with the exception of the few who do not balance their diet correctly altho this is not limited to veggies alone)

And it isnt hard checking packets now since most sweet companies have actually stopped using gelatin and the like in their products in favor of pectin.

at least go and check some facts before u try to make a point.

 

[Ekydus]

I'm sorry but eating nothing but vegetables tends to actually be rather unhealthy. Your facts stated about blood cholesteral levels which you can increase no matter what the hell you do. Those facts are meaningless on the whole and not enough to sustain or justify an argument. You know what? Don't eat nothing at all. They have found out plants actually have feelings too. Slow, but they do have them. Now that's been said I'll expect you to be alive for about a week maybe. Good luck!

 

[Driwen]

Originally posted by Annouk
no i dont eat fish, if u eat fish then u aint vegetarian u are just someone who doesnt eat red meat (a pesco-vegetarian to be precise)

and i wasnt trying to twist the converstaion was just curious. Plenty of ppl dont agree with hunting but still eat meat.

you can disagree with hunting for the fun of it and still eat meat?

Besides most people i know who dont eat meat also dont eat chicken (which isnt red meat) but thats just being picky.

Anyway I dont trust the doctors that much when it comes to how I should live and what I should eat. They have been wrong from time to time about stuff or forgot to look at something. Can you be really sure that by not eating meat and just protein suplements you are getting the same needed things?
humans got 16 molars and 12 teeth (not counting wisdom tooths) but some of those molars are also pointy and arent really made for pure grinding. Besides our body has been developed to use tools and also for dinner. So why have canine teeth if you dont need them as you can with as much ease use a tool?

Btw anouk did you read the link in the first post saying that you also shouldnt forget about the animals killed to get the crop on those crop fields? Allthough its probably better to live freely and get killed by an accident (atleast as long as that doesnt kill an endangeroured species) than live in a captivity in a cage.
Also if the animal has a happy life, why is it so bad in the end to eat him? Off course you kill him, but if you hadnt had planned that he wouldnt have lived at all. So is it better to live 5 years with reasonable joy (off course the way farm animals are now kept its not really sure if they are so happy) or not live at all?

 

[Annouk]

It has been scientifically proven that being vegetarian can be healthier than eating meat as long as ur diet is balanced (and it aint a hard thing to do).

I could throw facts at u all day long but it wont make a bit of difference to u Eky since u seem to ignore everything except for wot u say yourself which is obviously coming from years of personal experience and research...

 

[old.Tohtori]

Originally posted by Annouk
It has been scientifically proven that being vegetarian can be healthier than eating meat as long as ur diet is balanced (and it aint a hard thing to do).

Also, balanced diet with meat isn't that much -unhealthier- either.

So everything is what it is from the point ov view your looking at it. If the full veggie diet is 1% healthier then the meat diet then i'll sacrifice that 1% for the steaks.

 

[Annouk]

And i think most of the animals would rather have not lived at al than live in the conditions we keep them in. They are bred purely for food, and how they are treated while they are alive is awful. Things might be seen differently if an animal was used for food after it had lived its life naturally but as it is they dont get the chance.

Like u said, i think the animals that are killed by accident in the process of harvesting crops is nowhere near as bad as it is still not even a fraction of the number we kill deliberatly every day.

And you do not need to take any protein supplements if u dont eat meat, u can get all u need naturally.

 

[old.Tohtori]

A kid is born.

He's whacked in the head, every hour on the hour since the day he's born.

This -is- normal to the kid and only those who have lived differently would be horrified of it.

Now until i see chickens with riotsigns telling the chickens in cages need to be freed...there's no need.

EDIT: Oh and...let's not use the word naturally, killing animals has been natural for ages as well.

 

[Driwen]

Originally posted by Annouk
It has been scientifically proven that being vegetarian can be healthier than eating meat as long as ur diet is balanced (and it aint a hard thing to do).

I could throw facts at u all day long but it wont make a bit of difference to u Eky since u seem to ignore everything except for wot u say yourself which is obviously coming from years of personal experience and research...

it was (and partially still is) that drinking alcohol is bad for you, but later on it was proven that drinking a glass of wine each day is actually good for you . Dont lean to heavily on science as its all theories and besides that they might be disproven they also might have overlooked some small effect.
Besides that meat eaters dont tend to watch their diet aswell as veggies do, so naturally veggies are healthier as they pay closer attention to what they eat and how much they should eat. So unless a balanced vegetarian diet is better than a balanced meal diet, you havent proven that much.