To Uni or not to Uni

Chronictank

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Leading on from this, thought would be a good discussion
Marc said:
Unless you know for sure you are a brainy twat and you wanna be a doctor or lawyer I dont see the point at all in going to uni. Employers these days arent arsed at all about if you have a degree or not, i know for sure most employers in my profession arent. If i was leaving school now id become a scaffolder. The money you can make is fcking obscene and there is always work around.
problem being
whats the alternative?
thatcher removed modern apprentaships (the silly whore fcuked this country up more than any other leader GB has),
before the smart people went to university, the rest went into modern apprentaships and were skilled up that way.
Now everyone is expected to go university by the government, as a result the government cant afford to pay the way for the influx of people going to higher education. So they offer low interest loans for students which they can pay back when they get jobs, and now top-up fee's.
My brother doing Aerospace Engineering will come out of Uni with 20k+ debts i shudder to think what doctors and such are leaving with.

People who genuinly arent acedemically minded now are a unskilled workforce from lack of training, so go into unskilled labour, problem being there is very little unskilled labouring available in the UK as a developed country (and most its rescources already been excavated). So they go on the dole, guess whos paying for their doing nothing , not oout of laziness but simply because they dont have the skills/training to get into real jobs (not saying all but there are some people in that boat).

Bring back apprentaships!

On a personal note i failed my a-levels 3x E grades Chemistry, Maths, Psychology, but was damn lucky and got into a apprentaship scheme run by UCL (right place right time), was trained up and now tweak software to work on the UCL computer network. Where theres a will there's a way provided your willing to work for it.
If i was to have followed the University/College path which i would have had to do who knows where i would be, it sure as hell would'nt be as good as where i am now

Discuss
 

Kami

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I did an apprenticeship from 1995-2000 no idea what your on about, there's plenty around at least in Scotland if people actually ask about them. Problem is everyone ASSUMES you have to go to Uni or at least college. Which isn't the case.

My advice to anyone who was considering going to college/uni straight after school would be to take 1-2 years out and work. Not just for any cash you can get but to have a break from the education system and to be perfectly honest to give yourself a breather. There's no disadvantage to it and I know from an employers perspective it gives you some real work experience AND shows you're not just ANOTHER uni graduate at the end of 4 years.

Degrees these days are sadly worth less and less, you need something that singles you out.

Personally if I was just leaving school I'd become a plumber. Sod me they can rake in the cash. I know of several who earn more than most lawyers 15years older :p
 

Fana

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Situation in sweden is similar - they removed alot of apprenticeship-type educations in favor of more slots on the universities, and also changed the way the student loan system works - so now its hell to pay it back, practically impossible, and most people will have giant debts that just keep growing, riding their backs for the rest of their working lives. They expect everyone to get a university level degree, but there are hardly any jobs to be had in the academic sector. Thousands of people go into uni despite not having the will or capacity for it and consequently flunk out and keep missing exam after exam, building up debt and not getting anywhere. And those that do pass get a life of unemployment due to the flooding of academics the uni's produce.
 

Garaen

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The first post is a somewhat dreamy account of the problems with Unis/Modern apprenticeships, but i generally agree the way the country is at the moment it is seen as the better option to go to Uni rather than train as an apprentice. It's quite sad the way someone is expected to have done A-levels and recieved a degree before they can get a good well paid job. (Yes of course this isn't the case, but people are somewhat brainwashed into believing this - i know i was). Many people come out of Uni with a degree to their name but end up in a shit job where the degree wasn't neccesary.
 

Cozak

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I decided after taking a gap year that I wont be going to uni or applying for it, for a number or reasons..

Firstly the money you come out of uni hugely in debt, secondly as has been said it doesnt make all that much of a difference these days.
My next door neighbour is a brainy fucker she got 11 A* at GCSE 4 A's at A-level and aced her law course at some uni in cambridge.. now she is working as a secreatery because she cant get law work :eek:
Only thing i will miss about not going to uni is 4years of getting pissed partying and fucking, but that can be done without going to uni as well. I decided to apply for the fire brigade instead of uni :)
 

Bugz

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Cozak said:
I decided after taking a gap year that I wont be going to uni or applying for it, for a number or reasons..

Firstly the money you come out of uni hugely in debt, secondly as has been said it doesnt make all that much of a difference these days.
My next door neighbour is a brainy fucker she got 11 A* at GCSE 4 A's at A-level and aced her law course at some uni in cambridge.. now she is working as a secreatery because she cant get law work :eek:
Only thing i will miss about not going to uni is 4years of getting pissed partying and fucking, but that can be done without going to uni as well. I decided to apply for the fire brigade instead of uni :)
Oo

My intention to become a lawyer too but i'm prepared to travel to get work :>
 

DocWolfe

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Every fucker and his monkey wants to be a lawyer. You could go to some shit university and pick up a better degree than someone who went to a decent uni and worked so much harder than yourself. I think thats the problem, the same degree at different university can be that much easier or harder.

To be honest- one of the reasons I chose to go to university was the social aspect- but I'm on course for a 2:1 at the moment at newcastle university (not northscumbria) :p doing computer science, its not necessarily a walk in the park, but the thing with computer science its one of those jobs that you need a degree to do.

Sure, by the time I come out, i'll be in £12,000 debt, but I'm pretty sure I'll get snapped up as I'm pretty competant at what I do and I've got a bit of a background. I plan on taking a year out once, I finish and learn to drive, maybe do a bit of travelling, and just get a _normal_ job for a year. Because I know, after that year I'll be pretty much lodged in a 9 to 5 job in a small room infront of a desk, earning at least £25,000 a year.

I'm going into my final year now, and to be honest it's been a fucking blast, and if I could, I would stay, but I think it's time to move on. I've met some awesome people, got hammered alot, done some fun things, best time of my life. Definately some memories, to tell my children and to reflect upon when I'm 80 and a vegetable.
 

DocWolfe

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Also just to add- it's also been a bit of life experience for me, instead of simply living with the 'rents, I've been living with mates, paying rent, cooking for myself, paying bills, washing clothes, tidying the house. And the biggest part is dealing with money, when I was at school, money wasn't really an issue, parents simply dished out for clothes, food etc. but I've been skint so many times at uni, it's showed me just how precious money is and not to squander it.

Before I went to uni, I was maybe a bit shy, and it many respects I am still weary. But I've really come out of my shell- willing to socialize alot more, knowing theres much more than a computer and a desk. I'm alot more confident just going upto people, and having a chat with a stranger. Its one of those skills you need to get places, and mates.

In conclusion: University isn't just about acedemia, its about preparing yourself for the real world, where you have to dig yourself out of the holes instead of letting other people do it for you.
 

Mikah75

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...

DocWolfe said:
Also just to add- it's also been a bit of life experience for me, instead of simply living with the 'rents, I've been living with mates, paying rent, cooking for myself, paying bills, washing clothes, tidying the house. And the biggest part is dealing with money, when I was at school, money wasn't really an issue, parents simply dished out for clothes, food etc. but I've been skint so many times at uni, it's showed me just how precious money is and not to squander it.

Before I went to uni, I was maybe a bit shy, and it many respects I am still weary. But I've really come out of my shell- willing to socialize alot more, knowing theres much more than a computer and a desk. I'm alot more confident just going upto people, and having a chat with a stranger. Its one of those skills you need to get places, and mates.

In conclusion: University isn't just about acedemia, its about preparing yourself for the real world, where you have to dig yourself out of the holes instead of letting other people do it for you.
wow:D thats inspiration :eek6: :fluffle:
 

Danya

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I don't have a degree and work in a computer science field. It's not essential.

Also, don't assume you'l get snapped up. The market is a bit flooded currently as loads of people though "wow computer jobs pay well, I'll do that!" so salaries have dropped somewhat and work is harder to find as a result of the huge influx of people.
Expect to earn £20k a year tops straight out of uni. I know plenty of people who got good comp sci degrees and earn less.
 

Bracken

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I got pissed alot at Uni - then again could have done that anywhere. Bottom line is aslong as you have a useful skill that you can demonstrate to a prospective employer, it doesn't matter where it comes from. :drink:
 

Darksword

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Chronictank said:
Leading on from this, thought would be a good discussion


problem being
whats the alternative?
thatcher removed modern apprentaships (the silly whore fcuked this country up more than any other leader GB has),
before the smart people went to university, the rest went into modern apprentaships and were skilled up that way.
Now everyone is expected to go university by the government, as a result the government cant afford to pay the way for the influx of people going to higher education. So they offer low interest loans for students which they can pay back when they get jobs, and now top-up fee's.
My brother doing Aerospace Engineering will come out of Uni with 20k+ debts i shudder to think what doctors and such are leaving with.

People who genuinly arent acedemically minded now are a unskilled workforce from lack of training, so go into unskilled labour, problem being there is very little unskilled labouring available in the UK as a developed country (and most its rescources already been excavated). So they go on the dole, guess whos paying for their doing nothing , not oout of laziness but simply because they dont have the skills/training to get into real jobs (not saying all but there are some people in that boat).

Bring back apprentaships!

On a personal note i failed my a-levels 3x E grades Chemistry, Maths, Psychology, but was damn lucky and got into a apprentaship scheme run by UCL (right place right time), was trained up and now tweak software to work on the UCL computer network. Where theres a will there's a way provided your willing to work for it.
If i was to have followed the University/College path which i would have had to do who knows where i would be, it sure as hell would'nt be as good as where i am now

Discuss

this is the problem thats facing alot of A level students at the moment - uni IS a must nower days. The government are working on providing alternative access to higher education, and we are seeing a comeback in skilled labour. however what marc fails to note is that in these jobs (the top two atm being joinery and plumbing i believe) the jobs and pay will soon fall - and ill explain why :p.

at the moment a good plumber can get £1,500 a week without too much bother, because tehre arent many plumbers around. This prospect has attracted alot of working class people to the job and so at colleges and apprenteships etc there are alot of potential plumbers. In about 5-6 years we will have alot more skilled plumbers and so there will be less work and more competition for jobs = lower pay most probably.

Personally id say work ahrd at school, get the results you not only want but need to get to the uni you want to go and do the course you want to do. i know its a stupid thing to say and everyone going into AS levels will just think im stupid but trust me when you fuck up and have to resit exams in your A levels year you'd wish you'd taken this advice: just do the fucking work, dig in and work, dont aim for a C or a B - aim for an A, work for the highest grade and you CAN get it :)
 

Darksword

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Kami said:
Degrees these days are sadly worth less and less, you need something that singles you out.

this is what im hearing EVERYWHERE, and to a degree it's true because nower days eveyrman and his can get a degree - depending on teh field of work, not having one can seriously cripple your job prospects because the other 12 applicants all have a degree. Job experience is important but that can easily be supplimented and 2 years after coming out of uni you should have experience and a degree.

As for getting work experience instead of uni just consider that alot of people applying for the same job as you will have gone to uni and are older so your just another 18-19 year old wanting a job :p
 

Tsabo

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After College I did go to uni for a few months but didn't like the course I was doing.

I then began working. I've been working in London most of the time now, and am now 22.

I am due to start my new Uni course on 26th Sept at Sheffield Hallam doing Computing(Software Engineering).

I agree that not going to uni isn't the end of the world. But you will find it bloody tough going.

Being just another average college grad isn't really enough if you wanna be able to earn some decent cash.

But I agree with Kami, having worked for a while and now go to uni I feel I'm more mature about my decisions and my reasoning. Also helps that I've had time to think about what I would like to do. Many people go all the way through out life not knowing what they would like to do as a career etc. Luckily I'm pretty sure I found mine :)

PS: Anyone else going to Sheffield Hallam?
 

Chronictank

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Kami said:
I did an apprenticeship from 1995-2000 no idea what your on about, there's plenty around at least in Scotland if people actually ask about them. Problem is everyone ASSUMES you have to go to Uni or at least college. Which isn't the case.
I looked at the time there were very few,
BA has a nice one if your into engineering but other than that they were very scarce (England, scotland run their education system differently).
People are expected to go to Uni (Blair even said he wants every student in secondary schools to go to university), this is the problem.

i dont exam well, never have. I know the stuff but stick me in a room with a exam paper in front of me and it all goes pear shaped, ask me to do something practically and i'll do it with ease. That's how my mind works, i prefer doing rather than reading about it, hence why apprentaship's are alot more suited to me. I'm sure there are many in the same boat and are not reaching their potential for similar reasons.
Hopefully all thats going on isnt just talk and they will bring back government backed scheme's for modern apprentaship's but we will see.
The future's bleak, work your arse off if you wana get ahead
 

Marc

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Darksword said:
this is the problem thats facing alot of A level students at the moment - uni IS a must nower days. The government are working on providing alternative access to higher education, and we are seeing a comeback in skilled labour. however what marc fails to note is that in these jobs (the top two atm being joinery and plumbing i believe) the jobs and pay will soon fall - and ill explain why :p.

at the moment a good plumber can get £1,500 a week without too much bother, because tehre arent many plumbers around. This prospect has attracted alot of working class people to the job and so at colleges and apprenteships etc there are alot of potential plumbers. In about 5-6 years we will have alot more skilled plumbers and so there will be less work and more competition for jobs = lower pay most probably.
But this is the case in any industry not just plumbing and joinery. There has been a shortage of highly skilled plumbers for close to 10 years now. Even if there is competition for jobs, you can still make money. Its all about Service. Give a good service, you can charge you want and people will pay, and will come back to you again.
 

Marc

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And i really do not agree one bit that uni IS a must. It isnt. Far from it at all. As i have said, 9 out of 10 prospective employers arent arsed one bit about if you have a degree or not. Experience > a bit of paper that took 4 years to get. Unless of course, you want to go into a proffession that requires you have a degree. We get letters all the time from people who have just finished uni with a degree in accounting and finance asking if there any jobs going and if not, can we keep them on file in case a job comes up. Their letters go straight in the bin. We prefer people with actual accountancy firm experience, not someone who has learnt it in a classroom.

Im not saying "dont go to uni, its a waste of time". Im saying that dont think because you are getting a degree you will leave uni and walk into a mega paid job. CHances are you wont, and wont for a long time.
 

Gear

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Education is a hell of a lot more than just seeking a job.
 

Danya

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Last interview I was in education was about 30 seconds of the interview, they were much more interested experience and what I could do than any bits of paper. :p
 

ilaya

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qualifications are getting to point where they mean less and less. an employer is looking for experience.. not your bloody german speaking GCSE.

best way to get a nice job now is to go directly from school, to an apprenticeship. u get the skills needed for later life straight away. going to college and picking up some easy a-levels in subjects that have nothing to do with anything aint gonna help u, in fact they just gonna suggest to employers that u just like the student life and cba to do anything of importance.

i went to college to get my a-levels for entry to an architecture degree.. wasbadly advised on what subjects to take.. got the qualifications.. but architecture was a 7 year course and no guarantee of job at the end... i woulda been taking a huge gamble if i went to uni, and had not said fook it. gonna get a job that lets me have a life for a bit..

even though im outta work atm i reckon i made right choice. i am able to get more jobs coz of my experience gained since then, than i would being an unemployed architect.. coz then employers would wonder.. hmm.. specialist field.. cant do it..

thats how i see it anyway. experience > qualifications.
 

Ezteq

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im 26 have no grades from school, never went to uni (did go to college for a year to learn painting & decorating) and have never really had a problem getting work.

a lot of the problems people face when they say they cant get a job is that actually they CAN get a job but it would be one they feel is beneath them or they dont like the idea of it.

tbh if im perfectly truthful yes i wish i did get qualifications at school and did go to uni but i didnt, i am considering it now because the job i do atm is very physical lots of heavy lifting and its quite dangerous ( almost all the chemicals i work with cause cancer, 3 or 4 ppl i work with have had it or died from it) and i cant see myself doing this job when i get older, also health and safety at my job is nonexistant and your expected to put up with it.

what i really want to do is be a librarian but never even looked at that as an option because of my lack of education, so now im seriously considering going back 2 school if i need to, what i do have on my side is life experiance ive been out in the real world and working since i was 16 and i didnt want to spend any more time in school when i was that age i hated it now im older i can appreciate education and ould be learning because i want to not because some crusty old bat was telling me i had to.

manual labour is something worth looking in to if you want to broaden your horizons though, if u want to emmigrate to australia you stand a 99% higher chance of geting there if you can do a skilled job and because everyone has a computer degree over there what they need is people who can make/fix things.
 

Marc

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If 3-4 people have either contracted or died from cancer im pretty sure your employer is breaking health and safety legislation. Have the people who contracted it or familes of the people who died from it, never thought of taking legal action against your employer? I find that very surprising.
 

Ezteq

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Marc said:
If 3-4 people have either contracted or died from cancer im pretty sure your employer is breaking health and safety legislation. Have the people who contracted it or familes of the people who died from it, never thought of taking legal action against your employer? I find that very surprising.
hazard of the job the chemicals we use are all marked "may cause cancer" and we're supposed 2 c a nurse every few months but ive not seen one yet, im not kidding heatlth and safety sucks there and when i brought it up to my boss he said "well if you dont like it u know what you csan do" i.e piss off and work somewhere else, tbh after that i kinda lost some of my enthusiasm for the job.

the guy that was supposed o deal with H&S there handed his notice in as everytime he tried to do something about it he came 2 a brick wall.
 

Maeloch

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Don't bother, you'd earn more as a plumber. There's too many overeducated idiots flooding the jobmarket. I've got a PhD and my old man earns more money as an electrician than do or probably will.

If u want 3 years dossing about go uni, but don't expect the world to fall at ur feet afterwards (not sure dosing about is even an option anymore with having to pay ur way, no housing benifit, dole, grants, etc).
 

Hawkwind

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Chronictank said:
People who genuinly arent acedemically minded now are a unskilled workforce from lack of training, so go into unskilled labour, problem being there is very little unskilled labouring available in the UK as a developed country (and most its rescources already been excavated). So they go on the dole, guess whos paying for their doing nothing , not oout of laziness but simply because they dont have the skills/training to get into real jobs (not saying all but there are some people in that boat).

Bring back apprentaships!
Apprentiships are not what they once were but many comapanies offer work with training such as day/block release. the company I worked for in the UK did exactly this. You could work 4 days and do 1 college day a week. The courses were fully paid by the company. I personally did HNC Electronics, HND in Software and MSC in Information Systems. You have to find the right companies but they tend to be the older more established ones like Rolls Royce/BAe/Smiths Industries....

To be honest if I had the chance to do it all again I would have trained as a Plumber. Easy hours and stacks of money. Most Tech Colleges offer courses in the more manual labour types. The one closest to me did Brick laying, Plumbing and Joinery/Chippying (? correct term for a woodwork course). All of which would lead quickly to well paid jobs.

FYI if your on the dole you can get the Tech Courses free or very low price.
 

Hawkwind

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Forgot Plasterer, a good one is as rare a rocking horse shit!

Only way you ever seem to be able to get one is through a mate of a mate. Still 200 GBP a day is not too shabby.
 

Hawkwind

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Ezteq said:
hazard of the job the chemicals we use are all marked "may cause cancer" and we're supposed 2 c a nurse every few months but ive not seen one yet, im not kidding heatlth and safety sucks there and when i brought it up to my boss he said "well if you dont like it u know what you csan do" i.e piss off and work somewhere else, tbh after that i kinda lost some of my enthusiasm for the job.

the guy that was supposed o deal with H&S there handed his notice in as everytime he tried to do something about it he came 2 a brick wall.
Write to the HSE yourself and inform them of your experiences. They will descend on your employer like a plague of locusts.
 

Ormorof

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it depends on subject tbh, for some careers are kinda neccesary, for example im doing chemistry, wouldnt stand a hope in hell getting a decent job in pharmaceutical industry (research and stuff ;) ) without a degree, whereas business stuff is less relevant (as alot of those teaching probably havent actually been working in a business for years and years :p )
 

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