To dear Durgi

[old.Kian]

To Hellskor - the level 1 spy thing was a level 1 Hibernian character that was apparently logged in Bledmeer Faste (!) and popped in while we were defending against you guys. This little lurikeen was running around with total impunity counting defenders, checking where rangers were on the wall, and seeing just when our PBAoE guys were at the gate blasting, and there was NOTHING we could do because he was (technically) a member of our realm. That's both against the CoC and damn poor sportsmanship (and please remember - this IS a game, not a real war, or we would have been able to lynch the spy and fire his corpse back out over the wall from our catapults ) By all means, please send your high-level shadowblades in to try and get the same info - that's what assassin classes are supposed to do, it's in the spirit of the game, and we at least stand a chance of doing something about them (gives us tanks something to do at least )

To Jupitus - now you didn't REALLY expect a mature and honourable response from Sinister now did you?

 

[Coren]

Sigh @ Eynar... Could try to explain it again, but there will always be people that don't even try to understand what things are really about...

 

[old.cerebus]

How can we keep plans secret when we have Mid spies listening to alliance chat? That's why we have /as ffs.

Can I just ask what you members of Midgard have done to the person that told you of the attack?

Your realm have proved that they can't stand people who cheat in this game (Okay, Albs and Hibs that cheat in this game).

I'd really hate it , although I would not be suprised, if Durgi and Hellskor get off without any kind of punishment when people who do much less, get suspended from the game.

You two should get your account banned and be made an example for those that wish to destroy this game.

Durgi you ruined this game for hundreds of people last night, I just hope you're happy with yourself because nobody else is.

uke:

 

[SilverHood]

I'd really hate it , although I would not be suprised, if Durgi and Hellskor get off without any kind of punishment when people who do much less, get suspended from the game.

What did Hellskor do?

And I think Durgi got anough of a flaming from midagrd, that banning/suspending him is a bit extreme

Afterall, would you ban that scout that took the relic (qwerty, or something) because of that?

I think in game punishment was enough.... trying playing a SB when no one wants to group with you , especially now that he's unguilded

and I'm too lazy to look through the CoC... but can someone find the exact phrase that says this isn't allowed?

 

[old.Torden]

And when u guys plans a big raid,that involves both Alb and Hib,u cant keep that a secret,u will always have someone who tells it to his friend and so on,if u keept a big plan like that into one alliance,insted of have to involve 2 realms to make it work,then u might had pulled it of.But as long as u have to use 2 realms for a raid then u will fail to keep it a secret,200+ people cant all keep a secret.So spys or no spys there will always be people that says something that might give a hint of something big is under way,when u have to involve so many people.

 

[old.Faye Arwen]

agree torden

 

[Ottar]

> How can we keep plans secret when we have Mid
> spies listening to alliance chat? That's why we have
> /as ffs.

By not doing advance planning in alliance chat. Midgard has worked under assumption that our /as is spied upon for quite awhile now.

We have information, for excample, that the gathering of your last relic attempt was set exactly at the same time Midgard was gathering for our dragon raid. Coincidence? Don't think so, neither does it matter. The fact of the matter is, one simply must assume any plans one makes may well become known to the enemy. Plans for dragon raids and such must include setting sentries at both milegates in Odin's and in DC.

Ottar

 

[old.Blejsarus]

I cant understand why ppl have so mutch hard feeling for durgi.
He meant well for midgard best.
He didnt want us to lose a relic.
And the best way to prevent that is to get no albs/hibs attack.
Why do ppl dislike him for that?
Sure he spoiled probelly some good fight.
But he meant well for midgard.
And he didnt even tell the mids.
The info i was gotten and how i told the /as
was that one person was told by a hib on a internet cafe
that hib/albs was gonna attack and told how altso.
The thing durgi did was to tell hibs/albs that we knowed about
these plans.

Anyway just think is bad that ppl in midgard dislike him.
He spoiled some fun fights but he meant well.

And alb/hibs kinda boring to hear that you need both realms
to attack us.. You did well the first time and got our relic.
Just some thing went wrong but i am sure you learned stuff from that raid and probelly next raid will go better.

Blejsarus 50 thane Eye Of Odin

 

[Starkill]

Originally posted by cerebus
Let me ask you Mids something as well, once you heard about this supposed raid from the hopefully soon to be banned Durgi, how many of you actually wen't and camped/logged with your main characters at the relic keeps?

For your info out of the 4 chars I play 2 are always camped at our relic keeps (and before anyone starts bitching there is nothing wrong with that).

As for dual accounting I dont agree with it. I was passed the info that alledgedly Durgi found out about. I didn't know the source of it but I don't think that is the point. This sort of tactic will continue to happen regardless of by who. You biggest winge should be aimed at the guy that passed the info on. If people are going to openly broadcast this sort of info within their realms then more fool them.

As a GL most of my guys dont know the intended target of an attack until they are on the teleport pad. My officers do however I have known them for a long time and have complete faith in them. As I dont know the background of fome of the newer members they just dont get told until it is too late do anything about it anyway.

Although I agree if Durgi was using dual accounts to get the info, thet should be stopped, but the biggest issues you guys seem to have is not being able to plan a raid without broadcasting it everywhere. However if Durgi got his info from a friend over the telephone, TOUGH, keep your troops under control or would you like GOA to add no possesion of phones to account subscribers in the CoC.

Within Midgard we have been aware of spying by other realms for a long time and we take steps, usually, to keep the info to a need to know basis until the info is too late to be acted on. Before a lot of annoyed Alb's/Hib's flame away about it shouldn't happen:


Fact of life: in anything of this nature spying happens.

Perosnally I dont condone it but I couldn't give a flying #### what the CoC says about it. Do governments have open sying agreements. No but everyone knows it goes on so just live with it and learn to keep it quiet then.

One other point if Durgi is dual accounting and it offends then report it I feel though it is bad practice to name and shame everyone involved that needed to already knew about this and as has been stated action was taken. To me it just sounds like another excuse to bitch and blame you failures on Midgard. It sounds a bit like you guys couldn't organise an drinking session in a brewery. To me this is one failure you need to look within your own realm for a solution to before moaning. Please stop soapboxing and organise a raid that will really worry us into rethinking our Midgard organisation a bit more. I for one await the challenge with baited breath.

P.S. No I am not in one of the UBER guilds and am not lvl 50 just sick of people moaning and not acting upon probs.

 

[Starkill]

Blej's post was made during mine and makes a good point last night many people in Midgard we really annoyed at Durgi because form our perspective it was him that told you guys we knew. Does that sound like the action of such a great spy.

Also to the Middies, ok Durgi might have might an error of judgement but Jeez lets not crucify him for it. None of us are perfect lets just learn from the experience and get on with bashing tree huggers and tin can's in solidarity.

 

[old.cerebus]

If Durgi only told the Albs you Mids knew then fine, I apologize if I falsely accused him, the first lot of messages made it look to me that he gave the game away to the Mids. It now appears he give the game away to the Albs. Still unfair for everybody.

He meant well for Midgard but he pissed on Albion and Hibernia. Most of us don't give a damn if he wanted to protect the relics, he did it in an unfair way.

And calling us boring for teaming? How about using spies that stop big fights in Midgard between all three realms, that's pretty boring to me.

Governments use spies yes, because many governments need to know exactly what the enemy is up to to avoid very deadly things such as terrorism, nuclear threats etc...

This is a game where the object is to have keep takes and relic raids, spies don't give you the upper hand, they just stop our planned attacks meaning you get no fun.

To me it just sounds like another excuse to bitch and blame you failures on Midgard

Damn right it is, we thought you guys where stronger and more organised. Now we know that the majority of your defence/attack movements are based on what your spies are telling you about us.

 

[Starkill]

Originally posted by Hellskor
Maybe you should clarify what you're talking about then.

Seeing as (in my view wrongly this is a public discussion) why dont you actually spell out why you accuse him of cheating in detail with facts and lets just see if it really hold water.

Cerebus I am from Midgard and to be honest dont care about your relic's except for the fact that we hold them, when we don't I will take a more active interest again.

You still seem to be avoiding the issue of how he obtained the info from a member of your realm.

"Governments use spies yes, because many governments need to know exactly what the enemy is up to to avoid very deadly things such as terrorism, nuclear threats etc... "

Yes and taking it in proportion we are avoiding loosing our keeps and our relic's, oh and especially those of the other realm.

"Damn right it is, we thought you guys where stronger and more organised. Now we know that the majority of your defence/attack movements are based on what your spies are telling you about us."

We don't have an amazing level of organisation IMHO and it needs to be improved. As for our efforts being totally relliant on spies that is amazing. I have been involved in many retakes of keep and most of the time they are just a spontaneous reaction to you taking them. As for defence it seems to me that if we are employing spies to feed us the info then we need to change them as we have lost a few keeps recently. I suppose the Alb's just happened to be passing Bledmeer the second we retook the keep from the Hib's. Maybe you did or maybe you had info, I dont care you took it and held it for quite a while. Most of our attacks are reasonably spontaneous and our defence is due to the good communication network we have established. We are able to get to keeps quikly because we keep people deployed in the right sort of areas patrolling. With no time of any of you laying siege to a keep there are a mass of horses winging their way to our frontiers. If we only acted on the words of alledged spy's then as I say we need to get some new ones it would save a lot of inconvenience when XP'ing at the other end of the realm.

 

[Jupitus]

Originally posted by [UKD]Starkill
...I suppose the Alb's just happened to be passing Bledmeer the second we retook the keep from the Hib's. Maybe you did or maybe you had info, I dont care you took it and held it for quite a while.

... actually we saw the Hibs had taken it and it seems to be your crown jewel so you always go to try to retake it... maybe you just shouldn't be so predictable

 

[Coren]

Actually, Durgi wasn't the one who told us. I won't go into naming the persons involved but the Alb organising this heared from our Hib partner that another Hib told him the Mids knew about the plans. This other Hib seemed to have a roommate playing in Mid who thought it was kinda unfair that Durgi told about the plans in EoO guildchat. When other Mids asked Durgi who his resource was, he didn't want to answer that. And actually I can't be bothered if he heared it from a friend or used a 2nd account.. Both are just damn wrong and pathetic. And as long as Durgi won't tell who his Alb contact is, we'll blame him asuming he just got 2 accounts.

And don't start this crap about him meaning the best for the realm, since someone could get a hacker friend to hack GOA's database and delete all Mid characters, saying he meant the best for the realm by doing so. There are other ways to be there for your realm than ruining the game.

Starkill: we had a great raid on monday and yes, we learnt from that. But how can we ever show you we did if we're being spyed on in such ways? Hence we're not 'whining' about another failed raid, but about people using these ways to spy on other realms.

 

[Starkill]

If we are that predictable there you go a perfect way to orchestrate your attacks in future. At least its some sort of plan I suppose.

 

[Jupitus]

[SARCASM]
...you know what? that never occurred to me....
[/SARCASM]

 

[old.cerebus]

Well seeing that some Hibs or Albs just took a keep isn't exactly spying, responding to that is fine.

What isn't fine is you responding to attacks before we have even left our realm gates.

"Governments use spies yes, because many governments need to know exactly what the enemy is up to to avoid very deadly things such as terrorism, nuclear threats etc... "

Yes and taking it in proportion we are avoiding loosing our keeps and our relic's, oh and especially those of the other realm.

So you're using spies to aviod losing your keeps then.....thanks.

 

[Starkill]

No I am not in agreement with spies as I have already said but it is something we have had to contend with in Midgard for a long time. Just live with it. There is no way to stop room mates having discussions etc. so what is the point in naming and shaming I am sure it goes on a lot.

I am only suggesting you need to be more careful with your info as we have had to be for a long time.

 

[old.cerebus]

Okay so can I get it in my head that the majority of Albs, Mids and Hibs hate spies and wish they would all go away?

If so then good and lets try to discourage them at all times.

Thankyou Starkill for at least showing that most Mids don't like Spies.

It's just a damn shame that people ruin such a good game by doing this kind of thing. Alliance chat is something that should be used to plan events. Instead it's rendered useless by idiots.

 

[kr0n]

Excuses. Well, AFAIK I aint got any spy reports from /gu or /as. No one has ever told me "Mids gonna raid tonight". Guess our spies keep their secrets?

And since we dont have any 100% proofs, he cant get banned. I he admitted it to someone in charge, perhaps then. But theres nothing to prevent it really. I just hope the alb who's his mate moves to Mid aswell, since they attract that kinda people (;-)).

P.S. another goodiegoodie reason for NOT including anyone else except trusted people in anything im doing. WTG Albs. WTG Mids. Server /quit rate just doubled.

 

[Starkill]

Originally posted by cerebus
Okay so can I get it in my head that the majority of Albs, Mids and Hibs hate spies and wish they would all go away?

If so then good and lets try to discourage them at all times.

Thankyou Starkill for at least showing that most Mids don't like Spies.

It's just a damn shame that people ruin such a good game by doing this kind of thing. Alliance chat is something that should be used to plan events. Instead it's rendered useless by idiots.

Point 1: I totally agree with.

Point 2: Within our guild, that being the only thing myself and my officer's can try and control, we will not tollerate it at all for whatever reason however well intentioned.

Point 3: I cannot say I am speaking for Midgard unfortunately (although any others feeling the same way please post and add support). it is a personal point of view.

Point 4: I agree and within Midgard this is a very big point of debate and we are all trying to pull together to sort this out. Frequently it is spammed or used for the wrong reasons (i.e. when a conversation is more appropriate to a /send ot a CG).

One point that I do feel quite strongly about (and I myself was guilty of it) was flaming Durgi for what was considered within Midgard to be a stupid mistake, before all the fact were known I would add. As I say I wish in a perfect world all information could be kept in a realm but unfortunately it is not practical. I am not so naive as to think this can be eradicatted.

As a situation for example:

Two Middies sat in a bar discussing something planned for the following night is over heard by an Alb/Hib played. Would this guy be accused of spying ?

If room mates sharing the same room with 2 pc's in oversee a message of the location of a gathering force. Would this be classed as spying ?

A little stupid but surely not spying.

If as has been alledged Durgi or whoever got the info from a conversation with a friend over the telephone/conversation in a internet cafe. Are they spying ?

Again a little stupid but again no I dont think spying, unfortunately a part of everyday life that we or GOA cannot control. If they were trading notes on future plans then yes that could be classed as spying but we have to remember that the game is played by people of different ages and sometimes bravado or whatever you wish to call it kicks in and rational though sometimes goes out of the window. I would never be so hasty as to report anyone if I wasn't sure of the facts and in some of the previous messages a lot has been assumed IMHO.

If the info was obtained purposely then yes it is not right and it spoiled a lot of potential fun as we kicked you Alb/Hib arses . All I was trying to say is that the problem is a bigger one than we or GOA can erradicate. However as Cerebus has said we should try to discourage it. If people within Midgard, Albion or Hibernia fell it is necessary to delpoy these tactics then so be it I cant stop it, but when planning a raid I would just adopt a few basic principles the main one being dont tell anyone but those that need to know the target until such a time as it is too late to react.

I cannot blame the person who obtained the information as they felt that they were doing it for the good of the realm. I also think that to use the word Spying is a little harsh given a lack of proof to the contrary.

At the end of the day this is not a perfect virtual world we all choose to live in and I just think we have to accept some of the faults and work a way around them.

There seems to be a popular misconception that Mid's cheat, have unfair numbers, powerlevel every second of the day and are very organised. In response I would say I chose Midgard for no particular reason except I tried the other realms and didnt like them much plus I had friends already playing in Midgard. Over the months I have tried both Alb and Hib on Excal as have many other guild memebrs but enthusiasm just waned (although I still have one in Hib but haven't used it for months). As for cheating I can't speak for everyone but certainly I am not aware of any within our guild an that is something we are proud of. Also I have not witnessed any in other guilds myself. As for powerlevelling I get bored playing the same way all the time hence 4 chars in MIdgard, but yes I want to get them up levels as quick as I can to be more powerful and fight better mobs and get good drops etc. As for being well organised this seems to be a bit of a myth but we do try and learn from our mistakes.

We want big RvR battles as much as anyone else and it probably, if truth be known, frustrates us that there is some inballance in numbers but what are we supposed to do abandon chars that have had months of effort put into them to join another realm. It seems a sad fact that eventually many games degenerate because of the bitching. Can we not just learn to live with the fact it is not perfect and try and make the most of what I think is an enjoyable game.

 

[old.cerebus]

Good post

We do try to make the best of it, unfortunatly things happen which make people lose interest in the game. This was one of them.

If I overheard two Mids talking about a massive raid, I would honestly not say a word, if they have gone to the effort to organize such a big event and no people where going to get harmed in Real Life by it, who am I to spoil their fun? I guess that's just the kind of person I am though

Durgi, I've said it before, the original posts made you out to be a spy, if you're not, then sorry. The whole thing pissed me off no end and I admit to wanting to find a good punching bag.

There does however appear to be an understanding that mids cheat.

They do.

We do.

Albs do.

It's who has been publicised most for cheating that has earned you that title.

Cases at the start of DAoC like Mids getting into enemy realms and killing low characters, the total misuse of the now corrected bugged bow, Mids inside walls, stories like this have been bounced around different forums and have earned you that.

There is no getting away from that now, just last night we had a Mid inside a wall shooting us during a raid, one that you would think would be more careful by now. This just adds to peoples opinions of you unfortunatly.

When things do go wrong, we do tend to shout foul play, usually we're right, sometimes we're wrong.

The Mids are strong and compared to us, very organized, they deserve our respect for that at least. What I said before I stand by though, when we find that you have been playing bad, our respect deminishes.

Unfortunalty we're gonna have to be careful about what we say, this whole incident may turn realm mates against each other, something we don't need, I suppose if it stops things like this though, it just has to be done

 

[old.Jadow]

I know what you're saying Layl, and it's true. But if people are going to be that immature, then we're going to have to clamp down on information flow.

It's lame, but if it's the only way to stop the problems, then we'll just have to do it. Either that or go and work on my neverwinter nights server. Hmmm.

Jadow
Lvl 4x Infiltrator
Unguilded.

 

[Starkill]

Generally most seem to be in agreement here.

Using bugs and glitches in game code I am not in favour of either, although I am sure they don't always favour the realm of Midgard. I still have a few doubts about one or two things I have seen Alb's/Hib's doing but I really can't see the point in posting it.

Maybe some of the volume of posts is an indication of some of the frustration of the other realm's being the underdog's as well, I don't really know. As a GL who had a char using one of the bugged bows, the char has now been parked til it is fixed. It is a shame because ignoring the bug it was also the best weapon available at that level for the hunter class in question. It seems as shame that a very honest player (who was not aware of the bug due to our guilds inexperience at the time) has had to park a char that so much time and effort has gone into. To be honest with the amount being made of this game you would thing emergency patches would be more forthcoming to correct these issues.

It would be nice if Mythic/GOA could start to get more events in the realms organised as it might take some pressure off the imperfections of RvR. A guild memebrs of our would like to organise some friendly inter-realm duelling, whcih to me sounds a great idea if taken in fun. However it is almost impossible to arrange without getting flamed about RP farming and the fact that high lvl players in all realms would use it as a change to kill "the enemy". It would be better if Mythic/GOA could take a more active part in something like this as I think it would keep the EU community a bit more focused on the fun aspect which at time we all seem to be forgetting.

Anyway I have more than my two pennies worth on the subject (just fed up cos of a cold) although I read the forums everyday I rarely post.

I am off to rainy Midgard to power level my awesome lvl 14 Runie .

Cerebus not sure what level you are, but probably higher than my main, but look forward to getting twatted by you in the near future.

 

[Azal]

Now we know that the majority of your defence/attack movements are based on what your spies are telling you about us.

Want to bet on that? most of our movements are based on gut feeling and common sense. How do I know this? well I help organise a fair bit of it and I can guarentee that you are just being paranoid about spies.

 

[Jupitus]

Originally posted by [UKD]Starkill
It seems as shame that a very honest player (who was not aware of the bug due to our guilds inexperience at the time) has had to park a char that so much time and effort has gone into. To be honest with the amount being made of this game you would thing emergency patches would be more forthcoming to correct these issues.

The bow is now fixed, as has been announced by GOA... please ask your guild member to fire away at his leisure

It would be nice if Mythic/GOA could start to get more events in the realms organised as it might take some pressure off the imperfections of RvR.

Seeing more and more signs of this:

http://forums.barrysworld.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23204

Enjoy

 

[old.cerebus]

Want to bet on that? most of our movements are based on gut feeling and common sense. How do I know this? well I help organise a fair bit of it and I can guarentee that you are just being paranoid about spies.

Good, we all need to be now.

This thread has highlighted the fact that we can't trust people in our realm. It's shitty but true

 

[old.Hellskor]

Originally posted by cerebus
<snip>

I'd really hate it , although I would not be suprised, if Durgi and Hellskor get off without any kind of punishment when people who do much less, get suspended from the game.

You two should get your account banned and be made an example for those that wish to destroy this game.

<snip>

uke:

Feel free to tell me why I should get banned ...

 

[old.Gombur Glodson]

you have to high crafting skills for your own good

 

[old.Torden]

Guys i know u are pissed of on Durgi,but i think the fellow got the point now,so what do u say lets cut the dude some slack and let him be,there is no need to keep picking on him,done is done and im 100% sure he has learned from it