K
katt!
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- #61
39+1
cap = 400.
39+1
cap = 400.
A
AbPoon
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- #62
Thing that your fogetting is that you dont have to spec duel weild at all to fight effectivly with 2 weapons as your main wep spec, ie sword control's your damage variance and you can use sword style's if i remember right with fine damage.
With L axe the problem is if your going to use it you have to spec 2 lines to even think about fighting with 2 weapons, it isnt an option for these reason's.
L axe doesnt control your swing rate but it affects your damage variance on your left hand only and gives you the styles you need, your off hand variance is not a large issuie though.
Your main hand spec, ie axe sword, will control your damage variance on your right hand (Remember when you use a style, style damage is only applied to your main hand and not your off hand) and this hand is where your damage comes from, but the thing is you CANNOT use sword/axe styles when fighting with 2 weapons as the style damage is halfed due to 2 weapons, ie wanko damage.
So therefore while you can spec 40+ sword and your cs stealth etc and your 2.2x spec points, an sb has no choice but to fill two lines to do what you can do with one and only has 2.0x spec point's.
As for infil's dragonfang being overpowered well doesnt really affect me that much as you lot crumple in 2/3 shot's anyway ^^ so i'll sit out on this argument and let you backstabbers sort that out.
DF for me seems to cap out around 500, have seen top end of 400 as in around 480 but not seen over, "Might" be possible with uber buffs but i dont tend to run round buffed up to the titties, thats with 44+6 Axe (As before your AXE skill will determine your damage cap but hard for me to tell with 50+ in both so poss be wrong)
Cheers
With L axe the problem is if your going to use it you have to spec 2 lines to even think about fighting with 2 weapons, it isnt an option for these reason's.
L axe doesnt control your swing rate but it affects your damage variance on your left hand only and gives you the styles you need, your off hand variance is not a large issuie though.
Your main hand spec, ie axe sword, will control your damage variance on your right hand (Remember when you use a style, style damage is only applied to your main hand and not your off hand) and this hand is where your damage comes from, but the thing is you CANNOT use sword/axe styles when fighting with 2 weapons as the style damage is halfed due to 2 weapons, ie wanko damage.
So therefore while you can spec 40+ sword and your cs stealth etc and your 2.2x spec points, an sb has no choice but to fill two lines to do what you can do with one and only has 2.0x spec point's.
As for infil's dragonfang being overpowered well doesnt really affect me that much as you lot crumple in 2/3 shot's anyway ^^ so i'll sit out on this argument and let you backstabbers sort that out.
DF for me seems to cap out around 500, have seen top end of 400 as in around 480 but not seen over, "Might" be possible with uber buffs but i dont tend to run round buffed up to the titties, thats with 44+6 Axe (As before your AXE skill will determine your damage cap but hard for me to tell with 50+ in both so poss be wrong)
Cheers
B
belth
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- #63
That's ridiculous, anytime style capping at 400 with 40 spec, when the weapons swing at rougly 3.0 spd. 50+5 DW, Dual Shadows capped at 312 and it's a positional style.
My offhander does approx. 60-70 damage when it swings and hits, it's 2.7 spd and it has eDPS of 15.2 or so. Hand axe(?) looks to do somewhat less at 40 spec and it swings every round. Having to spec LA for it to be useful is inconsequential, as the styles it has greatly offsets the "loss".
Low DW isn't as effective as you might think either, the offhander goes on vacation quite often - I've had many fights with 18+something DW that I lost only due to offhander not swinging and dropping the DoT on the opponent. I occasionally still go thru fights where it doesn't swing.
With endurance regen coming, LA damage should be toned down, Doublefrosting nonstop isn't just very powerful, it's overpowered. Atleast now you run out of endurance after 4 or so Doublefrosts.
Infils have 2.5 points and sb/ns have 2.2 btw Also, infils don't have any good anytime styles unless they spec slash.
And no I'm not whining, just pointing things out. I just think it's ridiculous how much damage LA does compared to the investment.
My offhander does approx. 60-70 damage when it swings and hits, it's 2.7 spd and it has eDPS of 15.2 or so. Hand axe(?) looks to do somewhat less at 40 spec and it swings every round. Having to spec LA for it to be useful is inconsequential, as the styles it has greatly offsets the "loss".
Low DW isn't as effective as you might think either, the offhander goes on vacation quite often - I've had many fights with 18+something DW that I lost only due to offhander not swinging and dropping the DoT on the opponent. I occasionally still go thru fights where it doesn't swing.
With endurance regen coming, LA damage should be toned down, Doublefrosting nonstop isn't just very powerful, it's overpowered. Atleast now you run out of endurance after 4 or so Doublefrosts.
Infils have 2.5 points and sb/ns have 2.2 btw
Also, infils don't have any good anytime styles unless they spec slash.And no I'm not whining, just pointing things out. I just think it's ridiculous how much damage LA does compared to the investment.
Z
ztyx
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- #64
LA > DW
Thrust > Axes
2.5 > 2.2
crappy DD > NULL
Thrust > Axes
2.5 > 2.2
crappy DD > NULL
O
osrim
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- #65
Oh, yeah
Lots of discussion here about SB and 'uber' LA line.
SB's use mainly 4.2 spd and 2.4 spd weapon. Style damage comes from spd of weapon. So they swing 4.2 spd weapon at 3.3 spd cause of average spd, minus quickness value and hastes ofcourse.
As mentioned before, most LA openers have small hit bonus and that is disadvantage against high evade assasins. Double Frost is high endurance usage move.
I dont feel that I have problems with SB's, only when solo and they grped.
Get your slash resistances up, mine 24%.
Im DW 50, Thrust 50, CS 21, Env 30, St 30 specced.
RA's IP, MOP4, Dual ref 2, dodger 2.
And got buffbot.
I can out damage most SB's with Dual shadows and then again Dragonfang owns em mostly. And im talking about when we both have buffs.
Im currently using guarded rapier (99% qua) and king's nail. And think my equipment setup is about average, I dont have any of those 'uber' drops from legion or dragon. Think kings nail is my 'best' drop.
Take a look at here:
http://forums.barrysworld.com/showthread.php?threadid=41070&perpage=25&pagenumber=1
Fingoniel has made some calculations to explain why its gimped to have equal speed weapons (in terms of damage) and u can calculate the diffrence of real dps to having 37.5% (dw 1) or 70% (my actual dw rate from big logs) DW chance. This is what I have found too in my tests that I have made.
This my view to things and I think people under estimate seriously DW cause DW isnt just Dual shadows move as most see it.
Luck in battle to everyone.
Lots of discussion here about SB and 'uber' LA line.
SB's use mainly 4.2 spd and 2.4 spd weapon. Style damage comes from spd of weapon. So they swing 4.2 spd weapon at 3.3 spd cause of average spd, minus quickness value and hastes ofcourse.
As mentioned before, most LA openers have small hit bonus and that is disadvantage against high evade assasins. Double Frost is high endurance usage move.
I dont feel that I have problems with SB's, only when solo and they grped.
Get your slash resistances up, mine 24%.
Im DW 50, Thrust 50, CS 21, Env 30, St 30 specced.
RA's IP, MOP4, Dual ref 2, dodger 2.
And got buffbot.
I can out damage most SB's with Dual shadows and then again Dragonfang owns em mostly. And im talking about when we both have buffs.
Im currently using guarded rapier (99% qua) and king's nail. And think my equipment setup is about average, I dont have any of those 'uber' drops from legion or dragon. Think kings nail is my 'best' drop.
Take a look at here:
http://forums.barrysworld.com/showthread.php?threadid=41070&perpage=25&pagenumber=1
Fingoniel has made some calculations to explain why its gimped to have equal speed weapons (in terms of damage) and u can calculate the diffrence of real dps to having 37.5% (dw 1) or 70% (my actual dw rate from big logs) DW chance. This is what I have found too in my tests that I have made.
This my view to things and I think people under estimate seriously DW cause DW isnt just Dual shadows move as most see it.
Luck in battle to everyone.
O
osrim
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- #66
Some more
When 1.56 here most SB's and NS's will get Purge (I would), and that happened in US -> debuff poisons (yep, can be reapplied) loose little and dragonfang is 'nerfed' then.
When 1.56 here most SB's and NS's will get Purge (I would), and that happened in US -> debuff poisons (yep, can be reapplied) loose little and dragonfang is 'nerfed' then.
N
Noche
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- #67
30 min timer Osrim, and all 29.9 min we r toasted.
Sadly how NSs rn´t even discussed here, I was wondering about ya spec, oic mercfiltrator with 50 DW 50 thrust, that´s lately quite interesting spec with a buff bot hehe.
Sadly how NSs rn´t even discussed here, I was wondering about ya spec, oic mercfiltrator with 50 DW 50 thrust, that´s lately quite interesting spec with a buff bot hehe.
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Envenom2
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- #68
i would just like to say since the last patch where RR5 NS could spec 44 pierce 44 cs 35 envenom and 35 stealth with RR5 and items all above 50 i never had any problems with sbs except for Korv really and come to think of it im just tryin to remember when a SB has killed me recently.
Also i have found that a unbuffed NSvs unbuffed sb the shade will win i dunno why its just happend with me loads of times ok maybe im better RR then most sbs maybe not but thats my experiances with sbs.
ok i think everyone has a problem with infiltrators well the ones that actually use DF the ones that dont are just simply noobs at playing the class i loose count of the amount of times im fighting Laico and others that dont DF and i kill them.
i dont think NS is that gimped tbh maybe before the RR5 spec yes but ive notice a real increase in damage etc with this spec.
so if i was to start all over again this would be my order of assassin Infil/NS/sb.
why? well i think a 5 spec sb really freaking sucks they dont have good envenom i mean comon 90+ damage with envenom for 20 secs per tick how can u possibly miss out on that??? hell ive beat tanks ubuffed simply by just wacking lifebane on every 20 seconds+snare run and watch em die lol.
I think people really underestimate nightshades i admit they arent powerful but they certainly aint weak if u play em right and ive basicly soloed all the rps Envenom and the 1st 700kish wasnt with a buffbot only got 1 recently because every assassin has one.
So in short NS do not suck if u play them right.
Ps someone said where are all the nightshades well if u look on duskwave theres 20 lvl 50 ns +maybe 5 more that arent on there only around 7 out of these 20 ns log on per night and thats a lucky night so whats that say?
1. they lvl it to 50 just to say i lvled a NS
2.they lvled to 50 recently and found out that assassins were getting IP taken and gone back to lvling there tanks/mages
3.they have left daoc.
now the 1st 2 reasons are a total waste of a nightshade i mean think of all the dedicated NS that wanted groups but couldnt get in because some of these assholes just wanted a shade to say i lvled one which believe it or not i know a few who have done this.
damn long message il stop here just a few facts about ns
Also i have found that a unbuffed NSvs unbuffed sb the shade will win i dunno why its just happend with me loads of times ok maybe im better RR then most sbs maybe not but thats my experiances with sbs.
ok i think everyone has a problem with infiltrators well the ones that actually use DF the ones that dont are just simply noobs at playing the class i loose count of the amount of times im fighting Laico and others that dont DF and i kill them.
i dont think NS is that gimped tbh maybe before the RR5 spec yes but ive notice a real increase in damage etc with this spec.
so if i was to start all over again this would be my order of assassin Infil/NS/sb.
why? well i think a 5 spec sb really freaking sucks they dont have good envenom i mean comon 90+ damage with envenom for 20 secs per tick how can u possibly miss out on that??? hell ive beat tanks ubuffed simply by just wacking lifebane on every 20 seconds+snare run and watch em die lol.
I think people really underestimate nightshades i admit they arent powerful but they certainly aint weak if u play em right and ive basicly soloed all the rps Envenom and the 1st 700kish wasnt with a buffbot only got 1 recently because every assassin has one.
So in short NS do not suck if u play them right.
Ps someone said where are all the nightshades well if u look on duskwave theres 20 lvl 50 ns +maybe 5 more that arent on there only around 7 out of these 20 ns log on per night and thats a lucky night so whats that say?
1. they lvl it to 50 just to say i lvled a NS
2.they lvled to 50 recently and found out that assassins were getting IP taken and gone back to lvling there tanks/mages
3.they have left daoc.
now the 1st 2 reasons are a total waste of a nightshade i mean think of all the dedicated NS that wanted groups but couldnt get in because some of these assholes just wanted a shade to say i lvled one which believe it or not i know a few who have done this.
damn long message il stop here just a few facts about ns
O
osrim
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- #69
Yep, 30 min is looong time sometimes when area has much activity. Sometimes standing 30 min and cant see anybody moving expect one full grp.
Like the spec, if I miss my PA..it wont usually matter.
Buff bot cause so many others have it too. Quite common sentence but its true.
B
belth
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- #70
Haven't met a good NS in Odin's for some time, I've been spotted few times by some and they just try to follow me, when they should shout and drop me out of stealth - no wonder NS are regarded as worst assassins if half don't use their classes abilities "Oh I've some shitty shouts and spells, you got 0.3x more points. /whine x100". Somewhat same with SBs there, stupidly standing still on a MG and reacting slowly (best was 3 Pierces in to someone's back before they /sticked), or such stuff. Then again, most of the time I get killed is because I attack someone I shouldn't have "I've beaten that class earlier, I can kill him/her this time too", back up Dual Shadows with Dragonfang - wrong way (Threeps last night at HTK, for example) and other stupid mistakes.
Been buffed quite a lot lately, but been grouped all those times too. Haven't taken buffs when I've been solo even though had the chance few times. For Emain, I guess a buffbot is a must-have, as most others have it there too, but Belthazor hasn't ported to Hib for over a month, as the only viable place (IMHO) to solo there without buffs gets zerged too much at times. And it was camped by couple others when I took my cabalist to Emain just for fun. Even got grouped at lvl24 with the rest of the group being lvl36-46, of all things.
Been buffed quite a lot lately, but been grouped all those times too. Haven't taken buffs when I've been solo even though had the chance few times. For Emain, I guess a buffbot is a must-have, as most others have it there too, but Belthazor hasn't ported to Hib for over a month, as the only viable place (IMHO) to solo there without buffs gets zerged too much at times. And it was camped by couple others when I took my cabalist to Emain just for fun. Even got grouped at lvl24 with the rest of the group being lvl36-46, of all things.
D
dexa
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- #71
have to agree with ya envenom, after latest patch if i see a sb
i just go for it dont even try to pa but then again dont have a bot so if he does well shit happends.
havent respecced yet but maby go for 61.50,50,50,50
i just go for it dont even try to pa but then again dont have a bot so if he does well shit happends.
havent respecced yet but maby go for 61.50,50,50,50
P
Pin
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- #72
Originally posted by dexa
have to agree with ya envenom, after latest patch if i see a sb
i just go for it dont even try to pa but then again dont have a bot so if he does well shit happends.
havent respecced yet but maby go for 61.50,50,50,50
Errr, so why whenever you see an infiltrator do you run away like a scared little girl?
E
elerand
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- #73
Zerks and Mercs can evade it, phear advanced evade! *cough*
N
Noche
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- #74
<Cough> why not using our special ability <cough>... u do fought NSs and noticed their bad dmg output?
IF we can actually take a beat plain meleeing vs infil I´ll do it ANYDAY, atm it´s just trying to PA coz otherwise it´s no win vs good infils who de-taunt + DF (Nicolas comes to mind). Most follow ya to try BSII more likely I´d say.
Agree with emain stuff, most will need to go buff botted.
N
Noche
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- #75
Sbs atm r quite easy for NSs due to our armor, cap slash resist and it´s more likely an even fight, sometimes u got lucky and kill em fast sometimes they might got luck with their double frost. Just killed a rr4 SB in emain both unbuffed and he had to use IP, still died with me at 10% hp (no RA used), but got luck at first and used 6 wpns (3 LBs during the fight) to equal his damage, ofc when ooe SBs hit like sissys.
Vs infils... well... if I face one day an unbuffed infil above rr5 I´ll tell ya.
And for the god sake, don´t take buff bots into account regards about skillful/balance or not!!
Vs infils... well... if I face one day an unbuffed infil above rr5 I´ll tell ya.
And for the god sake, don´t take buff bots into account regards about skillful/balance or not!!
D
dexa
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- #76
Originally posted by Pin
Errr, so why whenever you see an infiltrator do you run away like a scared little girl?
offcourse they are so uber
B
belth
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- #77
Erm, if the NS has a lvl50 LW champ to back him up within short distance, why does he try do BS2 to me? Especially when I move faster with my "good" 48 stealth and I can't attack him straight away due to distance.
A
AbPoon
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- #78
Sorry didnt mention that i use a 3.2 spd ga axe in my left to max out my axe skill so the 2.4 sod thing doesnt apply to me, also i doubt many SB's hit df as hard as me.
Buffed up i'm over the str cap but 300+ damage souldnt be hard for a good sz i wouldnt of thought
Buffed up i'm over the str cap
but 300+ damage souldnt be hard for a good sz i wouldnt of thought
N
Noche
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- #79
Then he´s dumb
A
Arthwyr
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- #80
There is a lot to do about dragonfang the lvl 50 thrust move while part from that move the most sensible thing to do is spec slash. True that we get a 9 second stun out of it but part from the pro there are 2 big cons to thrust.
1. The greatest danger for an assassin is other assassins. They hang out at the same places and if they see them they can choose to engage and uncover em. Since all assassins use leather armor slash has the advantage over thrust here.
2. Thrust weapons vs slash weapons (thrusters are gimped dps wise.
Arcanium offhand thrusters:
Dirk 2.2 spd 15.1 base dps
Stiletto 2.6spd 15.3 base dps
Main Gauche 2.8 spd 15.5 dps
for all these speeds slash ahs 16.2 - 16.5 dps crafted counterparts so there is no decent offhand crafted weap atm. As a matter of fact the first 16.4 dps thruster is a guarded rapier at 3.5 spd. This will chance with the introduction of the longdirk wich is a 2.9spd 16.2(16.5?) dps offhand thruster.
So yes dragonfang is great but we have to give up somethign for it too.
1. The greatest danger for an assassin is other assassins. They hang out at the same places and if they see them they can choose to engage and uncover em. Since all assassins use leather armor slash has the advantage over thrust here.
2. Thrust weapons vs slash weapons (thrusters are gimped dps wise.
Arcanium offhand thrusters:
Dirk 2.2 spd 15.1 base dps
Stiletto 2.6spd 15.3 base dps
Main Gauche 2.8 spd 15.5 dps
for all these speeds slash ahs 16.2 - 16.5 dps crafted counterparts so there is no decent offhand crafted weap atm. As a matter of fact the first 16.4 dps thruster is a guarded rapier at 3.5 spd. This will chance with the introduction of the longdirk wich is a 2.9spd 16.2(16.5?) dps offhand thruster.
So yes dragonfang is great but we have to give up somethign for it too.
O
old.Sanar
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- #81
Not quite right, Nightshades are slash resistant, Shadowblades slash vulnerable and Infiltrators neutral to slash.