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yurka_polearm
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- #31
tried hybrid twice now, and once u start rvring you DO notice the dmg variance. Slam is nice, but your there to do dmg and you can land stuns easily anyway with 2hd.
B
belth
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- #32
Sting does pretty much same damage as the "fabled" Spamethyst, just not so PvE-friendly. Only viable anytime in Thrust 
I
Ialkarn
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- #33
No you don't but to solo properly you need certain requisites (speed,stealth,debuffs,pets,endurance,high self defense,self heals),and if we make a list of classes better or worse as solo I think armsmen would challenge thanes for the last positions.
It's cause you only solo,if you played in group more you would see how often a support run in front of 3 tanks assisting on him.
you would see how easy is to run across a target (for example a bard or healer trying to mezz,or a support trying to heal,or a caster pbaoing )/face /stick and land a backstyle.
You would also see you don't hit tanks unless all the supports of the enemy group are dead,and those tanks certanly aren't looking for you,but for your clerics,and if they does it mean you clerics are free to keep you alive,if not it mean a large ammount of tanks are hitting you and certanly you can't stun more than one.
It's not me thinking that it's the whole armsmen population playing the game in this way.
WE,WE,WE...you talking only for yourself here Kagato,you seem to say half armsmen of the game are solo players when 90% of them groups and only plays in group ;I didn't decide anything the game is build to work like that:to force certain classes to group and make some others (stealthers?) more effective to solo .
That's why they gave pure tanks determination they gave pure healers group heals then spread heals cause it's in line whit the philosofy of the game.
They offer aloot:a long time stun in offence when before you should have specced hibrid for that or drag the pali far from your supports.
10+seconds? Not everyone plays 0 quickness.
What is the way then Kagato? make you and a few armsmen happy and upset the 90%+ left?
D
drunkard
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- #34
Absolutely agree! The pole style changes were so badly thought out, the entire line now has no continuity.
There was no reason to move disabler to follow cross. Do they think people will start using that side chain now? Retards. I actually prefer mangle as a followup, but the choice was nice, especially if you want to conserve end.
There was no reason to change poleaxe, it was a decent anytime with a reasonable growth rate and a high end usage. It is now a followup to a style that is far superior to it in every way, wtf?
The easier access to revenge is beneficial in rvr(even though the damage was nerfed), but now the lvl50 style is practically redundant.
Pole is still the only 2 handed line with a rear positional that has no effect.
It is a drastic to nerf to 1vs1 melee combat for armsman, and will have a major effect on any armsman who ever solos.
All this just to upgrade the second style in a rear positional chain from a snare to a stun. It's not the effects of the changes that bother me so much as the complete and utter lack of any kind of thought or reasoning behind the changes.
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Ialkarn
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- #35
Another thing,you asked why armsmen are group char:
They got a group ra Soldier Barricade
Prevent Flight (I don't see why ppl should run in 1vs1 fights)
They are damn slow if 2h/pole specced ,they couldnt land a combo against a pbt if a dual welder isnt assisting them.
They have a shitty damage output over a certain number of swings ( a merc for example can solo a target faster than them) but a good one on 3-4 swings so they need to kill their target under this limit to be effective.
They got determination:does solo armsmen need determination? except skalds what it's going to mezz you in a 1vs1 2vs2 fight? a solo bard? a solo healer? you need to purge aniway or they be too far before your mezz is off.
They got a group ra Soldier Barricade
Prevent Flight (I don't see why ppl should run in 1vs1 fights)
They are damn slow if 2h/pole specced ,they couldnt land a combo against a pbt if a dual welder isnt assisting them.
They have a shitty damage output over a certain number of swings ( a merc for example can solo a target faster than them) but a good one on 3-4 swings so they need to kill their target under this limit to be effective.
They got determination:does solo armsmen need determination? except skalds what it's going to mezz you in a 1vs1 2vs2 fight? a solo bard? a solo healer? you need to purge aniway or they be too far before your mezz is off.
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Draylor
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- #36
The only people with any reason to complain about the polearm changes are those that want to solo/duel all day.
Its just proof people complain about anything - we finally get a usable 9sec stun and still few people are happy
Rage/Revenge wasnt a usable chain - it HAD to be changed.
The option of using Revenge or Aegis after Phalanx is nice: 9sec stun when its needed, or more damage (Aegis) if target is already stunned or immune.
Poleaxe was completely worthless previously: using up to 40% of an end bar depending on weapon speed. Moving it to chain from Rage is just fine - it doesnt seem that its end usage has been reduced enough to be worth even having on a quickbar.
Its just proof people complain about anything - we finally get a usable 9sec stun and still few people are happy
Rage/Revenge wasnt a usable chain - it HAD to be changed.
The option of using Revenge or Aegis after Phalanx is nice: 9sec stun when its needed, or more damage (Aegis) if target is already stunned or immune.
Poleaxe was completely worthless previously: using up to 40% of an end bar depending on weapon speed. Moving it to chain from Rage is just fine - it doesnt seem that its end usage has been reduced enough to be worth even having on a quickbar.
Ok, so name a few other armsmen that solo effectively on Excal. These changes help the vast majority of people playing that class.
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Flimgoblin
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- #37
spec hybrid if you want to solo... think that's the only choice after 1.65 anyway.
Then again versatility is the key in playing solo. Groups want specialists, small-groups/solo need jack of all trades.
Then again versatility is the key in playing solo. Groups want specialists, small-groups/solo need jack of all trades.
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-Lotheric-
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- #38
Re: Re: To all active RvR Armsmans on excal...
Also thanks for all the posts in this thread, some useful info tbh.
Is there any site on the web where you can compare Polearm/2-handed growth rates? Btw anyone know exactly what Polearms styles gets its growth rate lowered?
Also thanks for all the posts in this thread, some useful info tbh.
K
Kagato.
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- #39
Can't be bothered to break everything down with quotes so i'll start from the top,
Armsman on a level with thanes for solo ability? Bullshit, one on one we can take down the majority of enemy classes. We can beat most through shear damage output alone. You compete just fine as most other non stealth soloers. Of cause you can never solo as well as a stealth class but we can do just as fine as any other non stealth based character when alone if you know how to fight.
And who said I only solo? I was running with a full group most of last night actually around Odins, and we did very well. I choose to solo or run with non full groups but that doesn't mean I don't participate in guild groups and other full group combat or zergs but we all have our preferances and I quite familier with large scale combat thankyou very much.
And I am not claiming half of Armsman solo, but all Armsman have the OPTION to solo and duel and win, now with these changes which do not give half as much benefit to group combat as you claim we do not even have the option.
The end result is for little to no benefit for group fights we lose all ability to duel and solo.
You claim that any enemy can easily escape the Rage/Revenge trap, well if thats the case it will be even more easy for them to Avoid Phalanx/Revenge, We don't turn our backs on Savages for the exact same reason, we know full well theres nasty rear styles coming.
As for making 90% of Armsman unhappy, I never heard anyone complaining about Rage/Revenge before, heck when they fixed it from being based on Fumbles to being based on Styles everyone loved it, the only problem with the polearm chain before was that snare styles did not work and Poleaxe was a waste of space due to the end cost.
As for your groupability list,
You don't need PF with snare styles, and with slow weapons its a waste anyway, best left to the mercs,
SB is a cheap way to get the same effect near enough of AoP2 so still a viable solo option
How many pbt classes do you see soloing as well?
And yes a solo armsman does need Detirmination, And if they do run, I just shoot them with the crossbow, dealing with these situration is where the skill and tactics comes in. Sprint, End pots, Snare styles? Theres plenty of options out there, for someone who wants to learn to fight.
Draylor, Poleaxe is STILL worthless, it is inferior in every way to Rage why would anyone bother using it when they can hit with Rage again for far better damage, bleed effect, high bonus to hit and a quater of the endurance cost or less?
And if your going to quote me at least quote the whole sentance I actually said :
I said a great many people still solo, non stealth classes, NOT just Armsman, go out into Odins some time or HW and you'll see plenty of differance classes running solo or in two's without stealth ability.
Flimgoblin, true jack of all trades has its benefits, but personally im pure damage and win through pure damage and it works for me, I use RA's and potions and charges to bring the added verstility.
To surmise the little benefit the Rage/Revenge nerf gives to groupability does not warrant the huge impact it has to our versitility and options to duel and solo.
Armsman on a level with thanes for solo ability? Bullshit, one on one we can take down the majority of enemy classes. We can beat most through shear damage output alone. You compete just fine as most other non stealth soloers. Of cause you can never solo as well as a stealth class but we can do just as fine as any other non stealth based character when alone if you know how to fight.
And who said I only solo? I was running with a full group most of last night actually around Odins, and we did very well. I choose to solo or run with non full groups but that doesn't mean I don't participate in guild groups and other full group combat or zergs but we all have our preferances and I quite familier with large scale combat thankyou very much.
And I am not claiming half of Armsman solo, but all Armsman have the OPTION to solo and duel and win, now with these changes which do not give half as much benefit to group combat as you claim we do not even have the option.
The end result is for little to no benefit for group fights we lose all ability to duel and solo.
You claim that any enemy can easily escape the Rage/Revenge trap, well if thats the case it will be even more easy for them to Avoid Phalanx/Revenge, We don't turn our backs on Savages for the exact same reason, we know full well theres nasty rear styles coming.
As for making 90% of Armsman unhappy, I never heard anyone complaining about Rage/Revenge before, heck when they fixed it from being based on Fumbles to being based on Styles everyone loved it, the only problem with the polearm chain before was that snare styles did not work and Poleaxe was a waste of space due to the end cost.
As for your groupability list,
You don't need PF with snare styles, and with slow weapons its a waste anyway, best left to the mercs,
SB is a cheap way to get the same effect near enough of AoP2 so still a viable solo option
How many pbt classes do you see soloing as well?
And yes a solo armsman does need Detirmination, And if they do run, I just shoot them with the crossbow, dealing with these situration is where the skill and tactics comes in. Sprint, End pots, Snare styles? Theres plenty of options out there, for someone who wants to learn to fight.
Draylor, Poleaxe is STILL worthless, it is inferior in every way to Rage why would anyone bother using it when they can hit with Rage again for far better damage, bleed effect, high bonus to hit and a quater of the endurance cost or less?
And if your going to quote me at least quote the whole sentance I actually said :
I said a great many people still solo, non stealth classes, NOT just Armsman, go out into Odins some time or HW and you'll see plenty of differance classes running solo or in two's without stealth ability.
Flimgoblin, true jack of all trades has its benefits, but personally im pure damage and win through pure damage and it works for me, I use RA's and potions and charges to bring the added verstility.
To surmise the little benefit the Rage/Revenge nerf gives to groupability does not warrant the huge impact it has to our versitility and options to duel and solo.
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Xeanor
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- #40
Improving a class at solo'ing and dueling and making it worse in group RvR is the worst thing you could ever do really.
Armsmen already are a not-so-wanted class in RvR groups, why should they make it even worse, FUCK solo armsmen or armsmen who want to duel, just make the class viable for group RvR.
Armsmen already are a not-so-wanted class in RvR groups, why should they make it even worse, FUCK solo armsmen or armsmen who want to duel, just make the class viable for group RvR.
K
Kagato.
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- #41
And in what way have I suggested making them worse for RvR, at what point was a 'worse' change ever proposed? And at what point have Armsman ever been not viable for RvR?
In fact at what point have I or anyone ever suggested improving Armsman for solo or duels for that matter?
Sorry but your post has absolutely no relivance to anything posted anywhere in this thread if your going to shoot off at the mouth at least read the thread first properly.
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Draylor
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- #42
Agreed. If you read what I wrote its just a reply to the post above, where Drunkard said it was better as it was before. Its not worth having on a quickbar either before or after patch IMO. The high damage cap isnt worth the excessive end usage.
Well I was trying just to quote the relevant part. From what I can see this change hurts at most a handful of people, while helping the vast majority of people attempting to play a polearm spec armsman.
I know I wont convince you that these changes are a good thing - its the complaints regarding them from others that are a little disappointing.
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Ialkarn
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- #43
You assume all armsmen are pole specced:they are not
and in this patch if you are not specced pole you NEED PF as armsman since only pole got an anytime snare.
and btw PF work great on crossbow to prevent ppl to out run you.
You claim armsmen are effective to solo they are not:they get owned as soon they get str debuffed whit purge down as soon they are out of endurance,as soon they face a savage (2h,h2h) ,as soon they face a sb or a bm or a shield warrior able to avoid the Rage/Revenge combo,as soon a warden a runemaster a spirit master an enchanter an eldritch.
What is left? thanes and spear heroes? healers?
And Honestly the "solo tanks" population is irrilevant.
quote:
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Originally posted by Kagato.
The end result is for little to no benefit for group fights we lose all ability to duel and solo.
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That's is where you are wrong:
It give a BIG benefit,and actually more space to pole armsmen in RVR group offering the chance to have a long time stun in offence whitout spec hibrid,that linked whit our anytime snare make pole the best way to spec as offensive armsman.
Your arguments are too much selfcentered and they don't reflect the real status of our class.
p.s:I go Odin,I go Hadrian and I see how they are " plenty of differance classes running solo":rangers,ns,sbs,infiltrators,scouts,a couple of reavers,Kagato,Ag-Bomental,mincers,a guy ld from his group and a couple of desperados in epic (insert random class).
Sometimes I solo too,to have a laught and I would be happy to save the rage/ revenge combo but if that is the price I have to pay to get what they giving us,well I 'm happy to get ride of it.
and in this patch if you are not specced pole you NEED PF as armsman since only pole got an anytime snare.
and btw PF work great on crossbow to prevent ppl to out run you.
You claim armsmen are effective to solo they are not:they get owned as soon they get str debuffed whit purge down as soon they are out of endurance,as soon they face a savage (2h,h2h) ,as soon they face a sb or a bm or a shield warrior able to avoid the Rage/Revenge combo,as soon a warden a runemaster a spirit master an enchanter an eldritch.
What is left? thanes and spear heroes? healers?
And Honestly the "solo tanks" population is irrilevant.
quote:
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Originally posted by Kagato.
The end result is for little to no benefit for group fights we lose all ability to duel and solo.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That's is where you are wrong:
It give a BIG benefit,and actually more space to pole armsmen in RVR group offering the chance to have a long time stun in offence whitout spec hibrid,that linked whit our anytime snare make pole the best way to spec as offensive armsman.
Your arguments are too much selfcentered and they don't reflect the real status of our class.
p.s:I go Odin,I go Hadrian and I see how they are " plenty of differance classes running solo":rangers,ns,sbs,infiltrators,scouts,a couple of reavers,Kagato,Ag-Bomental,mincers,a guy ld from his group and a couple of desperados in epic (insert random class).
Sometimes I solo too,to have a laught and I would be happy to save the rage/ revenge combo but if that is the price I have to pay to get what they giving us,well I 'm happy to get ride of it.
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Ialkarn
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- #44
Well you complaining about changes making us more effective (and more wanted) in groups cause they make us less effective as solo,or you think an armsman get a group cause his rage/revenge reactionary stun?
D
drunkard
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- #45
All that crap just to go from a snare to a stun? They could have just put a stun on phalanx, or changed aegis from a snare to a stun.
The pole line is just stupid now, it makes no sense at all. Any 5 year old could have come up with a better solution.
Yes, a stun is better than a snare, I didn't say it wasn't. In general rvr where you just use cb/magle and phalanx/revenge it is an improvement.
That doesn't make up for the fact that they completely fucked up the pole line in the process, does it?
When I see people like Kagato (who actually try and solo something other than an assasin in this buffed stealther infested pit of a game) get nerfed, it pisses me off.
G
gunner440
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- #46
this game is designed for large scale battles not 1v1 or 8v8
mythic implemented what they felt would boost the games design (see above)
its like complaining that a 2 seater sports car cannot accomodate a large family.. it was never meant to be
mythic implemented what they felt would boost the games design (see above)
its like complaining that a 2 seater sports car cannot accomodate a large family.. it was never meant to be
X
Xeanor
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- #47
Then why are you complaining about a change that improves the armsman in Group RvR combat but makes them less good at dueling/soloing? Who cares about solo? If you're not a stealther don't solo, it's as simple as that.
And armsmen are not viable for RvR, a merc outdamages them easily, and they got no stun except for the stupid followup after someone does a style on you, which is useless. Unless you got slam, but that's different again.
Style-wise the polearm changes are an improvement, stop being so negative about it.
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Ialkarn
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- #48
Polearm is fucked aniway,changes or not:it got already redudant styles:Aegis and Crippling Blow have both snare effects and the (little) longer duration of Defender's Aegis ,can't compete whit the fact crippling blow is anytime.
If you think pole gonna be fucked you forgot when rage/revenge was reactionary from fumble and when hindered styles didn't work at all (it was fixed last two patches I 'm not talking about something of far).
I think those changes make sense,they won't fix armsmen but atleast they give us some love,too bad ppl can't see that.
T
Treniel-
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- #49
i like my arms tbh alot of people have a go at me saying its to slow n shit but i like the dmg with a few fast people in grp pbt shouldn't be a problem. tbh i not looked at the new styles yet but if they are as gimped as everybody says they are i will respec to a 2h line probs.
P
Powahhh
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- #50
why not thrust then?
all mid support will fall like flies....
ofc after 1,65 2h is a must for arms IMO
G
gunner440
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- #51
Re: Re: To all active RvR Armsmans on excal...
2h is gonna be hugely nerfed
lol
pole/ss only option ;>
2h is gonna be hugely nerfed
lol
pole/ss only option ;>
B
bracken_woodman
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- #52
Re: Re: Re: To all active RvR Armsmans on excal...
Don't be silly gunz
Don't be silly gunz
G
gunner440
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- #53
Re: Re: Re: Re: To all active RvR Armsmans on excal...
its true!
well you could go hybrid but i dont wanna go into that again
Originally posted by bracken_woodman
Don't be silly gunz
its true!
well you could go hybrid but i dont wanna go into that again
B
bracken_woodman
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- #54
You can't beat sweeping generalisations eh?
B
bracken_woodman
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- #55
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: To all active RvR Armsmans on excal...
Originally posted by gunner440
its true!
well you could go hybrid but i dont wanna go into that again
K
Kagato.
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- #56
Im sorry but that is nonsense, have you ever actually dueled this people you claim own Armsman? I have no purge and still don't have any problems with debuffs be them cast spells or poisons/effects, Out of endurance? POTIONS man, see this is where tactics and skill comes into the game, finding solutions to give you an edge, and lets not forget bounty stones and weapon charges, though I guess you'd never need to learn such techniques in your groups now.
Savages, have you ever dueled one or just followed the herd whining about them? I've dueled plenty and the fights have always been 50/50 as they should be both buffed and unbuffed.
SB's? Some wont even attack me alone. And the last spirit master I fought on excal road I killed both times I went hunting for him, so don't give me this bullshit unless you actually try dueling these people yourself alone. Armsman ARE quite capable of soloing, heck I didn't get RR6 from losing fights out there. Of cause we arn't uber or fotm but we can sure as hell compete with the best of them.
F
firebirth
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- #57
Armsmen for ENDURANCE DRAIN/TAP/STEAL in my opinion would make us much more effective when fighting without a paladin. The problem with Armsmen is they have little relavence in the game world, no group actively seeks them out becuase we dont have anything a group really needs/wants.
Armsmen need a pupose in the game world some kind of advantage that no one else has (i no what you gonna say you get Determination, which is useful yes but u usually get mezzed two or three times before you can get close enough to attack the caster.
As for the new rear polearm styles id like to see how an armsmen in the heat of battle is going to be able to target someone in the back and hit then before they move.
Armsmen4tehENDdrain!!!11!!
Armsmen need a pupose in the game world some kind of advantage that no one else has (i no what you gonna say you get Determination, which is useful yes but u usually get mezzed two or three times before you can get close enough to attack the caster.
As for the new rear polearm styles id like to see how an armsmen in the heat of battle is going to be able to target someone in the back and hit then before they move.
Armsmen4tehENDdrain!!!11!!
B
bult
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- #58
thing is there is 1% of all the people playing armsmen that solo like you do. the rest group and for a group armsman these changes a BIIIIG boost.
Pretty much all changes mythic makes are bad for someone and this change only hurt a very small amount of people so gw mythic.
Pretty much all changes mythic makes are bad for someone and this change only hurt a very small amount of people so gw mythic.
G
gunner440
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- #59
lol are u crosseyed and try to play using ur toes and left butt cheek?
if you are i understand why you complain about those things mentioned
B
bult
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- #60
lol..