Time to bring NS's in from the cold?

[Spamb0t]

50cs 50pierce .... 0 cd... eww :x


and u cant get any decent debuffs with that anyways.. unless u keep 0 stealth

 

[azshara]

cant stealth with 0 ;d

 

[Chameleon]

I hate to admit it (with an ns as my main) but it's true, make an ns is you want to solo .... if you want to group, make a group friendly class. A well played ns can work better in a group than a 'not so well' or 'badly' played any other class, but people make groups based on class title and level more often than not, unless it's a guild group or with known friends. A group of 8 characters, all played well, would not contain an ns imho. I wish it were otherwise, but it's not.

 

[censi]

NS (and all assasins) were built to solo.

They are about the only class which has been changed and benefited from the change in terms of their solo capabilities.

(sure the IP nerf was nasty but needed)

Assasins need a major overhaul like rangers to drive them towards group rvr.

If mythic trully dont want this to be a solo game like they say, then they need to totally overhaul assasins, cus they are basically solo'ers.

with regards to storms post. remeber a NS has to arm the weapon to put posion on it. So that rules out anything but poison on 1h slash and 1h thrust. Considering its going to take about 1-2 minutes to do that for 3-4 tanks its just no practical. But sure it would be good.

 

[StormriderX]

Ok plenty of good points so far but I'd just like to point out a few things.

1) NS can envenom the weapons they can arm whilst waiting at dl for group to fill/at bolg where everyone buffs.
2) NS usually wont get hit that quickly since they aren't caster and they aren't support. IF they do get hit well they got ap and its sure as hell better than having enemy tanks on your support
3) As for determination, I'm fairly sure it only works on casted CC. Doubtful that poison snare falls under it, even if it did still better to have it than not have it.
4) If ns has poisoned weapon of a tank in group then its one less target for them snare I guess. The primary concern would be disease poison imo, since it lowers weapon skill/makes it harder to heal and slows you down.

 

[azshara]

storm, repoisoning goes in a flash
even with lots of weps, if u know what u r gonna do that is ;d

 

[llixeraxu]

champs can debuff .. ohh and snare !

 

[llixeraxu]

snare and then just dont hit it easy

 

[StormriderX]

True llix but champs cant disease and their debuff is on 20s timer.

Also ns snare is unbreakable.

 

[Noche]

NS snare like prevent flight but can get resisted a lot? Snare + disease mixture in my inventory while in grp usually, need to fill all 8 wpn slots first ... /whispering WTB Galla stingor!

50 CS and 50 pierce with LOOOOOOOOOW CD/Env isn´t that hot option (u need to have stealth high if u go 50 CS route) even for grp imo, u sacrifice way too much, might well lower the CS.

Oh one last thing, vs mid grp with more than 1 healer (aka 2 healer 1 shaman) the chance of getting CCed is VERY high, and without det any kind of CC lasts ages (specially things like root when u r chasing on a healer and another one does that to ya)

 

[Ebonn]

Im pretty sure most shades carry around 4-10 extra pre-venomed weps.. if if not.. why the hell not !!!

As for having less armour well i dont know about other shades but having a savage/zerk attcking me isnt even slighty worrying.

1) while there hitting the shade, there ignoreing the healer/caster which they should be hitting

2) with evade 7 and AP available every 15 mins why fear any melee class ( ok ok crush zerks hurt if they hit )

3) the utility of venoms in a group situation is powerful when used right.

4) only things shades should be worryed about are mages nuking them, and if that shade knows what hes doing a mage wont get to nuke him before said mage is dead, and you dont often see a lot of mid mages nowadays.

 

[Ebonn]

Originally posted by Noche
Oh one last thing, vs mid grp with more than 1 healer (aka 2 healer 1 shaman) the chance of getting CCed is VERY high, and without det any kind of CC lasts ages (specially things like root when u r chasing on a healer and another one does that to ya)

Get better resists, all i ever see is 'you have resisted blah blah'

But i do agree if you do get CCed it lasts some time, but if you know what your doing you shouldnt get CCed ( unless other side gets the jump on you )

 

[Spamb0t]

Originally posted by Ebonn
2) with evade 7 and AP available every 15 mins why fear any melee class ( ok ok crush zerks hurt if they hit )

ur evade 7 wont do much when u will most likely be hit from behind :help:

 

[Saeval]

Hi,

I don't RvR a terribly large amount, but it seems you are interested in the *disease* poison that NSs have to offer. So, I'd like to bring your attention (if you didn't already know) the fact that in the Eldritch mana line there is an AE disease spell.

I don't know how this spell compares to the NS poison, but I'd imagine at high levels it would still be pretty effective. Personally, I try to cast it whenever possible, although I often don't survive long enough to get a good cast off.

However, (I don't know how well this would work) what if you had one or two shield tanks guarding/defending the eld while he breaks, um, perhaps an insta mes to have a well placed spell.
Perhaps a druid AE root could follow this (which I'm guessing would still have a reasonable duration), and the tanks could then proceed to take targets while the others assist.

This strategy would probably take a lot of cooperation and maybe the jump on your target. From those experienced enough to say, how does it sound? :/

Just a thought

PS. mana elds also have an insta AE str/con debuff. And in 1.62 an AE snare, although this would probably be breakable.

 

[Arnor]

Originally posted by azshara
tbh, i do that leik most of the time im in a fg, which wont happen more then when we got GG... snare + dis > tanks. snare + dis > healers, hell snare > caster ;d

thats why we lub you

 

[cougar-]

Since we dont even have room for a warden in group i rly doubt a ns can fit in.

 

[vintervargen]

Originally posted by Ebonn
with evade 7 and AP available every 15 mins why fear any melee class

did you miss remis post about him having a very even fight with an unbuffed bluecon savage?

this idea is good, but poison resisting, no guard/slam/ip/deter will make it inefficient in reality imo.

also very fun to be ae mezzed when stealthed

 

[Cuthervaen]

Well we already had Ebonn when he was around quite a lot in group, and provided a ns knows how to group play (like Ebonn did) I found doing assist team with one is about as nice as doing it with BM (always nicer to have fast hitter / slow hitter combo).

About this tactic I dunno really, cause then NS won't be assisting at first as he'll be trying to poison / disease tanks, while group main tank is more likely to be on opponent supports.

Poisoning other tanks weapons is nice though, but damage dealing tanks often use LW or CS too (give ns LW poisoning please )

 

[dwy]

Originally posted by old.Garax
NS's work really well assisting a heavy tank, as the battle starts they can stealth and maybe take out a healer/caster and then they can assist your main tank. Workin as a bubble popper so the slow hard hitting tanks make the most of their swings.

TBH a shade is equally as good as a BM, if not better as they can stealth

Not at all...... a strong BM with good weapons hit alot harder than NS + they got PF cheap IP+purge+more hps+Reinforced armour...

Tbh good bm >>> NS and u wanna stealth and go for healer?
Takes some time to get to healer where the BM would just run and bash away+ its better to stay with target picker and assist instead of picking diffrent target

 

[saltymcpepper]

youll never make me group xD

 

[iziz-minx]

One thing i learned fast as a ns in a group with stormriderx is assist the guy i always followed him can move thru the killing field like a knife thru butter only time i broke assist is if i spotted a healer that was not under attack and then stealthed to take him out.

There is much value in a ns in your group storm is no muppet he knows the value of a well trained ns in group.

But so many hibbys hung on the notion>( a Nightshade ahh are they that solo class that stealth)<

Iziz out.

 

[Begach]

Originally posted by ev0_o
Good in theory, however theres a 'recast' timer on putting poisens on weapons, so have a NS run around str/con debuff etc sounds good, but the NS will have to come out of combat etc first/

Think the idea here mate was the NS can poisen others weapons (anything he can hold he can poisen). Ie nasty 110 str/con debuff on everyones weaps not just his own. An a snare on a casters staff for the f6 sprint get away would be funneh (if it worked).

Or am i reading this wrong storm? You know a NS can't re-aply poisen in combat right, so ovbiously couldn't run round stabbing everyone inna ass with a debuff.

Edit: nm read rest of thread

B.

 

[Ivynoxia]

I think a week ago I was bored of Odins and soloing, so i spent half a day grouping and going to Emain. I was trying out the disease/str-con debuff/snaring strategy already, and i wanna add a few new points.

NS's have Garrote, an anytime snare style, and just spamming garrote a few times snares to about half speed, stacks with the snare poisons too. The snare poison isn't a 99% druid root.. only 40% and the disease snare on the offhand is 15%, so a freshly snared tank runs at about half speed, but they are unbreakable by damage..

Hmm, and I think the crippling poison starts to loose effectiveness very early, about 15 seconds and becomes unnoticable, especially over short distances. Anyone else noticed this?

The disease spell's stats, 180 seconds of -50% healing, -7.5% str and 15% snare, it's great to use and doesn't loose effectiveness. Not sure whether the mana eld's disease is the same.

On the field I was applying disease to every spare weapon i had, and then equiping a new blade and garroting every enemy tank that broke out of mezz or running towards our support classes. If the tank got healed it was only for half and a few times the healers couldn't keep up and the tank went down quickly. It worked best after an enemy tank came out of mez, maybe by purge, so they couldn't purge it again.

Stealthing up to enemy support classes was useful in that you avoided being slammed, took damage or snared the PA chain follow up usually leaves them with a sliver of health. Useful to apply the DOT here too, some healers panic and think they cant cast whilst the dot is ticking.. and the dot finishes them off.

The NS can stun for about 5 seconds with the PA chain or the Backstab 2 style, both from stealth though. No 9 sec slam but still useful

Disadvantages:
no guard/slam/ip/deter
leather armour, but evade 7
low hps (max 1750-1800 with full buffs)

 

[Rnp]

disease is Uber vs mid healer grps...

so just about every mid grp u find

 

[azshara]

Originally posted by Begach
Think the idea here mate was the NS can poisen others weapons (anything he can hold he can poisen). Ie nasty 110 str/con debuff on everyones weaps not just his own. An a snare on a casters staff for the f6 sprint get away would be funneh (if it worked).

Or am i reading this wrong storm? You know a NS can't re-aply poisen in combat right, so ovbiously couldn't run round stabbing everyone inna ass with a debuff.

Edit: nm read rest of thread

B.

the thought is that the ns having pre-poisoned weps in backpack that he can just switch to whenever there is the need to land another poisons. myself got 4 in backpack but need more, and afaik all shades have that (if u dont, u should).