Those who want a co-op server - vote for it here!

[Svartmetall]

...the majority, if not all of the mobs can be found in-realm

No, they can't, certainly not in Midgard. And Yggdra Forest has nice drops.

You would not have the same PvP guilds fighting one another, as you cannot attack realm guilds now.

So who do you picture fighting against who on this hypothetical server?

Your last comment about raiding was not a common belief on Gaheris :|

Was with the Gaheris players I've spoken to, but your experience of a server can ofc be different.

Also the 30 free RSP's could be implemented and make the rest of the RA's be obtainable via PvP. That would be decent enough.

No, it wouldn't, not for the PvE players who would have gone there to get away from PvP/RvR. How many times do I have to point this out? People who play a co-op server do not want to PK. Forcing them to endure PvP for RPs would totally suck, and be totally against the spirit of a co-op server.

...

 

[Saggy]

Those who want to PvP have a whole server to do it on, right now

...

There is more colours than just black and white In my opinion both pure PvE and pure PvP servers suck but the mix of coop/PvP would be quite interesting.

Forcing them to endure PvP for RPs would totally suck, and be totally against the spirit of a co-op server.

Agreed. New server -> new rules, RAs could be gainable via PvP and PvE though ;o

 

[Yussef]

It's not a co-op server :| It's a mixture of the two which would benefit a greater playerbase than a pure co-op server. If you honestly believe that frontier drops rock, I'm going to end the conversation here.

There are not many high end PvE orientated guilds, they are the minority. The majority of PvE'rs are headless chickens. My direct playing experiences on Gaheris are a better reflection of what you have heard imo. Although I admit I was not in a high end position, but judging from the public schedules at least, it wasn't that impressive.

I don't know who would move, but I could see it as an appealing choice to RvR guilds who have migrated to a PvP server. The fights would be more concentrated and the PvP grouping options would be beneficial too.

They do not need to give us any new servers at all, I would think they would launch a PvE/PvP server rather than a PvE server. You don't need that many RSP's to cope in PvE. So your arguments about what a Co-Op player would want are not applicable to this argument imo. However, as there is no PvE/PvP server even setup in the US as of yet, this is pretty pointless.

 

[Derric]

And Yggdra Forest has nice drops.

:worthy:

 

[Yussef]

Also, a TOA enabled Co-Op server is pretty pointless, my reasoning follows.

Whenever a new expansion is released, previous loot is pretty much obsolete, with a few exceptions. Due to the design of TOA, I.E one expansion for all three realms, instead of three expansions (so to say). You are not really experiencing new content. However with SI and Classic zones, you do have the new content handed to you. Arguably that content is pointless from the view of high end PvE. They are basically exp/PL zones. The only advantages of a PvE only server are:

Group possibilities without fear of PK'ing
Alternate RA system
The "experience" of killing the other realm's epic mobs
Safe usage of frontiers.

But from a high end PvE POV. You have everything accessible to you which you would require on a PvE/PvP server, i.e (All dragons, epic dungeons and TOA. Generally the ok content from classic/SI, although their value is kinda crappy now). An alternate RA system could be implemented no problem, these are only suggestions and not concrete rules.

 

[Tilda]

What about:

A server where you are automaticly assigned to a "realm" and in that realm, you can roll any race and class, ie, healers, wizards, chanters etc.
So then you get 3 realms, with roughly the same number of people, with access to all the classes in the game.

Tilda

 

[GReaper]

Those who want to PvP have a whole server to do it on available to them, right now.

Those who want a co-op server currently have nothing available to them.

...

How about...

Those who want to PvP have a whole server to do it on available to them, right now.

Those who want to PvE all day also can do it right now on all servers!


Seriously think you're forgetting the fact that you can easily go and PvE on any existing server. Is Co-op really worth it? Just roll another character on another server/realm. If you love PvE that much, I'm sure levelling another character to 50 will be no problem for you.

 

[Derric]

Imagine the camping on a PvE only server. o0

 

[Solarius]

How about...

Those who want to PvP have a whole server to do it on available to them, right now.

Those who want to PvE all day also can do it right now on all servers!


Seriously think you're forgetting the fact that you can easily go and PvE on any existing server. Is Co-op really worth it? Just roll another character on another server/realm. If you love PvE that much, I'm sure levelling another character to 50 will be no problem for you.

Except we are limited to just two realms for a start (well, english speaking players that cannot speak/read French or German), Excal and Pryd. Also, co-op isn't just about being able to do PvE, it's about being able to do PvE with ANY combination of groupmates, hibs with albs with mids. Can do that too on Camlann, but a lowbie group has to constantly be alert for the lvl 50 grey-con gankers, taking away some of the fun. Worst experience I had on Camlann (and one of the chief reasons why I decided I hate the PvP environment) was getting stunned and mezzed by a lvl 50 healer in a group consisting of 5 lvl 50 players and one lvl 8 player (I was lvl 16) just so this level 8 player could kill me - and there was NOTHING I could do to prevent it. On a coop server, I could play midgard characters (currently unavailable on a normal server in english without deleting and rerolling from one server) without having to keep looking over my shoulder for griefers.

And thats possibly one other reason why a coop server would be popular, to give players who don't like PvP a chance to try out the third realm, given there seems to be no way GOA will take the necessary steps to offer english speakers a third normal server (advertising ect)

 

[Rulke]

If you honestly believe that frontier drops rock, I'm going to end the conversation here.

Actually, emain has the best drop in the game:
http://daoc-trophy-mobs.com/mob/taman.html

Far right one

 

[Svartmetall]

Those who want to PvE all day also can do it right now on all servers!

You deliberately avoided my point. I said Those who want a co-op server currently have nothing available to them, which is exactly true.

Is Co-op really worth it?

Yes.

...

 

[Indis]

The majority of PvE'rs are headless chickens.

Agreed. A co-op server would rock but the lack of an endgame would kill the server dead. Personally I'm not interested in pvp but I need a reason to want to get to 50. I've tried pve games before and nearly died of boredom. Rvr is sorta ok but I dont see why I should be obliged to chug around e-main in order to get RAs. An alternate system provided in co-op would be much preferable.

 

[Svartmetall]

It's not a co-op server :| It's a mixture of the two which would benefit a greater playerbase than a pure co-op server.

No, it wouldn't. As I've already pointed out (and you seem to be deliberately ignoring this very important - and pertinent - point), this so-called 'Co-op/PvP' server would be trying to force the two most directly opposed playstyles to co-exist on one server, for no good reason as far as I can tell apart from possibly someone's PvP evangelism. Co-op and PvP co-exist in the same manner that potassium and hydrofluoric acid do.
Well, PvPers already have their own server, on which they can make up their dream-team gank squads from all the realms' classes all they like.
Has that sunk in yet?

If you honestly believe that frontier drops rock, I'm going to end the conversation here.

If you honestly can't find any decent drops in your frontier, you're not looking hard enough. And besides, the drops are irrelevant - it's the overall gaming experience that matters.

The majority of PvE'rs are headless chickens.

A-ha! Now I see where you're coming from, you just don't like PvE or PvE players.

My direct playing experiences on Gaheris are a better reflection of what you have heard imo. Although I admit I was not in a high end position, but judging from the public schedules at least, it wasn't that impressive.

What does 'not in a high end position' translate to? Did you have a level 50 on Gaheris? And how are your 'direct experinces' more valid than those of my RL friends who play on, and love, Gaheris? Hmm?

I don't know who would move, but I could see it as an appealing choice to RvR guilds who have migrated to a PvP server. The fights would be more concentrated and the PvP grouping options would be beneficial too.

Hmm...so what you want is a 'we can make gank groups out of any class' server? Why not do just do that on Camlann?

They do not need to give us any new servers at all, I would think they would launch a PvE/PvP server rather than a PvE server.

I don't. Again, as I have already pointed out, we are vastly more likely to get a new server type for which code and a ruleset already exists, rather than one for which it doesn't.

However, as there is no PvE/PvP server even setup in the US as of yet, this is pretty pointless.

Well, at least we're agreed on that.

You don't need that many RSP's to cope in PvE.

Who are you to dictate to a PvE or prospective co-op server player what he or she might need or want? If you think they're headless chickens anyway...?

 

[Svartmetall]

Agreed. A co-op server would rock but the lack of an endgame would kill the server dead.

What's the 'endgame' in RvR, then? Scrabble around in the frontiers killing more players, again, over and over...?
MMORPG's don't have an 'endgame'. There's no end-of-game boss you have to beat, no big final puzzle to solve. The gameplay itself is the endgame.
If RvR is what you enjoy, great, fine, you have plenty of RvR servers to play on.
If PvP is what you enjoy, fine, great, you have a PvP server to play on.
If co-op is what you would enjoy...well...we don't have a server for that yet.

RvR is sorta ok but I dont see why I should be obliged to chug around e-main in order to get RAs. An alternate system provided in co-op would be much preferable.

Agreed on that part.

...

 

[Indis]

I never said that rvr was the preferable form of game svart. DAOC was my first mmorpg and in my view its the best. The others I've tried have shown a certain amount of aimlessness about them (horizons, city of heros). My point is is that there needs to be a focus in getting to 50 in order to continue playing your character - a modified RA system and (despite what Yussef said) access to the TOA zones to upgrade items and develop you character would be adequate.

I'm acually on your side svart but I do enjoy the opportunity for post-50 development that the game provides..

 

[chretien]

What's the 'endgame' in RvR, then? Scrabble around in the frontiers killing more players, again, over and over...?
MMORPG's don't have an 'endgame'. There's no end-of-game boss you have to beat, no big final puzzle to solve. The gameplay itself is the endgame.

Hmm you kind of score an own goal there. If the gameplay is the endgame then surely that applies just as much to RvR as to PvE?
I wanted to see a Co-op server, however after reading this thread I'd be more inclined to throw in my vote for the co-op but with PvP in frontiers server type. I feel it is a much stronger idea with more appeal to more players than the pure co-op approach.

I don't really see how it's inimicable to pure PvE-ers either, if you want to be a pure PvE-er then you have all three realms PvE content at your command with the grouping options from a co-op server to boot. It's unlikely you're going to choose Emain rather than Caer Sidi for your high level hunt so why the problem with letting people kill each other in pre-defined zones? The only problem I can see with that approach is that RP farming will be easier but that's no different to Camlann.

As I see it it really is the best of both worlds - you can have your PvP jollies when you feel like it and then all go home friends again for the ML10 raid later.

As it stands though, it would require Mythic to code up a new ruleset so it's not as likely to happen as a co-op server for which the code already exists.

 

[Svartmetall]

I never said that rvr was the preferable form of game svart. DAOC was my first mmorpg and in my view its the best.

Agreed. Hell, I wouldn't play it so much if I didn't think the same .

...there needs to be a focus in getting to 50 in order to continue playing your character - a modified RA system and (despite what Yussef said) access to the TOA zones to upgrade items and develop you character would be adequate.

I'm acually on your side Svart but I do enjoy the opportunity for post-50 development that the game provides..

Hehe, me too...

...

 

[chretien]

Forgot to mention the RP issue.
Unless you are a caster then you don't need many RAs to make you viable in high end PvE. If the co-op with rvr ruleset gave you 1 RSP per level from 20-50 with you then having to earn the rest through RvR, that would pretty much sort you out for everything you'd need without having to RvR at all if you didn't want to.

Also

And besides, the drops are irrelevant - it's the overall gaming experience that matters.

Disagree. Try getting people to come along on a gaming experience hunt. Tell them you're going to ph4rm l3wt is much more likely to get people along. Sad but true.
The headless chickens bit is also true but it's a bit harsh I feel to apply it exclusively to PvEers. Most players (PvE or RvR) are headless chickens. It's easier to be lead than it is to lead and the people who put time and effort into organising and leading events are a distinct minority amidst the morass of those who can't/won't/shouldn't.

 

[Svartmetall]

Hmm you kind of score an own goal there. If the gameplay is the endgame then surely that applies just as much to RvR as to PvE?

Show me where I say that it doesn't? Thing is, if RvR is your chosen endgame, you already have servers on which to do it. If PvP is your chosen endgame, you already have a server on which to do it. And people saying 'oh but you can PvE on a normal server' entirely miss the point, which is that a co-op would give you all 3 realms' Classic + SI zones, all 3 realms' frontier zones and Atlantis to hunt in. Normal servers do not give you that and neither would this hypothetical co-op/PvP hybrid. If PvE is your endgame du jour, then a co-op is obviously the best option, but it's an option we are currently denied in Europe.

I wanted to see a Co-op server, however after reading this thread I'd be more inclined to throw in my vote for the co-op but with PvP in frontiers server type. I feel it is a much stronger idea with more appeal to more players than the pure co-op approach.

How? It's not a pure co-op, so those who want a pure co-op will be put off by the effective unusability of the frontier zones, and it's not a pure PvP, so those who want gank-gank-gank can't do it in the lion's share of the teritory of the server. Frustration for all, as I see it. And there would still remain the RAs-and-how-to-acquire-them problem as well.

As I see it it really is the best of both worlds - you can have your PvP jollies when you feel like it and then all go home friends again for the ML10 raid later.

<sigh>
Here we go again. The two worlds that this idea tries to force to co-exist are anathema to each other. There is no Euro co-op server at present, there already is a PvP server for those who are interested in PvP.
And if PvP is so bloody appealing, why is Camlann's regular population so damn tiny?

As it stands though, it would require Mythic to code up a new ruleset so it's not as likely to happen as a co-op server for which the code already exists.

Exactly.

...

 

[Svartmetall]

Forgot to mention the RP issue.
Unless you are a caster then you don't need many RAs to make you viable in high end PvE. If the co-op with rvr ruleset gave you 1 RSP per level from 20-50 with you then having to earn the rest through RvR, that would pretty much sort you out for everything you'd need without having to RvR at all if you didn't want to.

So you would try to dictate to players what they need? Kind of patronising, don't you think? I think players themselves are more than capable of deciding when they have 'enough' RAs for whatever it is they need/like/want to do, thank you very much.

The headless chickens bit is also true but it's a bit harsh I feel to apply it exclusively to PvEers. Most players (PvE or RvR) are headless chickens. It's easier to be led than it is to lead and the people who put time and effort into organising and leading events are a distinct minority amidst the morass of those who can't/won't/shouldn't.

On that, at least, I agree with you.

...

 

[Indis]

Though I can see the appeal of a co-op pve/pvp server I dont really see the point...surely its a bit too much like what the pve-ers want to leave behind? A co-op server would keep we pve-ers happy and hell if we fancy kicking the arse off other players we can always log on our original toons on pryd/excal to do so...

 

[chretien]

Here we go again. The two worlds that this idea tries to force to co-exist are anathema to each other. There is no Euro co-op server at present, there already is a PvP server for those who are interested in PvP.
And if PvP is so bloody appealing, why is Camlann's regular population so damn tiny?

Because of the shit atmosphere and the fact that you can't exp in peace. A lot of players would like to try group setups from several different realms but are put off by the state of Camlann. I don't see that the two ideas are anathema to each other. You have 100% co-op in all non-frontier zones so you get all the high level PvE content and you can also have some PvP fun when you feel like it. Hardly forcing two playstyles to co-exist. If you don't want to engage in PvP then you don't have to, you can enjoy all the extra PvE content instead.

So you would try to dictate to players what they need? Kind of patronising, don't you think? I think players themselves are more than capable of deciding when they have 'enough' RAs for whatever it is they need/like/want to do, thank you very much.

No, just stating a fact. My main has less than 30 RSPs and I don't have any doubts about his prowess in high level PvE. Extra abilities would be nice but they aren't essential. You only need RAs in PvP because the other side have them, I don't see how that applies in PvE.

 

[Svartmetall]

Because of the shit atmosphere and the fact that you can't exp in peace. A lot of players would like to try group setups from several different realms but are put off by the state of Camlann. I don't see that the two ideas are anathema to each other. You have 100% co-op in all non-frontier zones so you get all the high level PvE content and you can also have some PvP fun when you feel like it. Hardly forcing two playstyles to co-exist. If you don't want to engage in PvP then you don't have to, you can enjoy all the extra PvE content instead.

We still wouldn't get the frontier zones (12 zones, the equivalent of a whole Classic realm's worth of territory) with the nifty high-level-mob-infested keeps. Why go most of the way to a proper co-op then compromise it? Why compromise it at all?
The fact that you can't XP in peace on a PvP server is the fault of the players, not the PvP server itself. Likewise the shit atmosphere. All the tools are there on Camlann right now for the setup you describe (all 3 realms' classes available, PvP when you want it etc.), the players are the ones who make a server shit or not. Give Camlann a 'PvP On/Off' switch, toggle-able only on login, then you could XP in peace and still PvP when you wanted to. Hell, enable that on Camlann, add a proper full co-op server, and everyone's happy.

My main has less than 30 RSPs and I don't have any doubts about his prowess in high level PvE. Extra abilities would be nice but they aren't essential

If you're happy with what you personally have, RA-wise, fine. But what you said was essentially telling PvE players when they had had enough, which is out of line. Would you presume to tell an RvR/PvP player that Det 5 or Purge 3 'would be nice', but he or she doesn't really need them? The 'would be nice' part is the significant one, there. I think I'll be the one to decide when I have enough MOPain/MOBlock/whatever, thank you very much.

You only need RAs in PvP because the other side have them, I don't see how that applies in PvE.

You need RAs in PvE so you can drop bigger and bigger stuff, survive longer, whatever.

...

 

[Atheistic Archon]

Some people do enjoy playing on Camlann, one of them being me.
One of the things that makes Camlann fun is the fact that you can't exp in peace, you have to be on a constant watch for other players trying to kill you.

But that doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to play the kind of server you want.

 

[DaveyJones]

A-ha! Now I see where you're coming from, you just don't like PvE or PvE players.

Yussef only runs the biggest PVE type guild on pryd/alb im sure your right Svart.

 

[Ballad]

Sigh.

I could argue that Camlann's a just as played server as Excalibur. Why? Excalibur has something like 2500 players at primetimes. Divide it by 3. 833 players per realm. Camlann has 900 players at primetimes. Get the idea?

There are 900 players you can chat, trade, cooperate, adventure, and ofc, fight with. Sure the field is three times bigger but it's very imperceptible. Basically Camlann has just as many players as you can notice on Excalibur just without the faceless "realm enemies" on the frontiers.

Enuff said.

 

[Svartmetall]

Yussef only runs the biggest PVE type guild on pryd/alb im sure your right Svart.

Well, that's how it came across.

 

[Svartmetall]

Some people do enjoy playing on Camlann, one of them being me.
One of the things that makes Camlann fun is the fact that you can't exp in peace, you have to be on a constant watch for other players trying to kill you.

But that doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to play the kind of server you want.

Precisely, that's why when some people said 'shut down Camlann and make it the co-op server I was definitely against that, because it would be massively unfair to the dedicated PvP community that's evolved there. I can't stand the atmosphere on Camlann (if I want PvP action I play Quake), but that's only my opinion...you have every right to be able to play this game in the manner you choose. That's all I'm asking for with a co-op server.

...

 

[Flimgoblin]

the PvE endgame is raids... which as well as having 3 realms worth of classic and SI things to raid in you also get three frontiers worth of "demon" keeps to raid on a Co-op server.

Also you can still have fun PvEing with random classes from across the three realms with 3 realms worth of places to xp. I like the idea of going to Galladoria to smite

Just because some people on Gaheris sit and PL their alts repeatedly (I have no idea why... that said I know some fellow that really enjoys sitting in barrows PLing alts with his necromancer - he doesn't go RvRing with them, he just likes PLing) doesn't mean that everyone wants to.

PvE/PvP server would just be a toned down version of Mordred and attract much the same type of players...

If you want to PvE and do a bit of PvP in the frontiers then that's what ye olde RvR servers are all about.

That's not to say that I'd not mind taking the Humberton Guard to Galladoria on excal if we could

I doubt I'd play on a co-op server though as I'm simpy too busy on Excal and I do like to go a-smiting the heathen now and again, but I'm all for having the option of it if there is a big enough playerbase to support it.

 

[Garok]

Would anyone play this kind of server after WoW is out ?