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[Raven]

The word "first" @Raven?

Anyway @Deebs - they're going to blame cost. They're going to say they would have to redesign our entire sewerage system since the 1890's to put in proper capacity to deal with rainfall.

Of course, as someone who studied sewer design and treatment plant design at university, that's bullshit. They're just the pipes. IMO it's the treatment plants that need massive capacity uplift IMO.

But private companies won't do it. Aren't doing it. They're still paying shareholders because it's cheaper to be fined (not that they ever get fined) to dump raw shit into our watercourses.

As has ever been the case. We've not progressed on any environmental measure during my lifetime - but we have managed to put a shitload of species out of comission for good, and put huge swathes of other species, plants and animals, on the verge of extinction.

The word context. One was asking, one was specifically blaming Brexit on us not improving our laws over current like-for-like EU laws, somehow.

You do understand context...right?

 

[Bodhi]

The word "first" @Raven?

Anyway @Deebs - they're going to blame cost. They're going to say they would have to redesign our entire sewerage system since the 1890's to put in proper capacity to deal with rainfall.

Of course, as someone who studied sewer design and treatment plant design at university, that's bullshit. They're just the pipes. IMO it's the treatment plants that need massive capacity uplift IMO.

But private companies won't do it. Aren't doing it. They're still paying shareholders because it's cheaper to be fined (not that they ever get fined) to dump raw shit into our watercourses.

As has ever been the case. We've not progressed on any environmental measure during my lifetime - but we have managed to put a shitload of species out of comission for good, and put huge swathes of other species, plants and animals, on the verge of extinction.

I do love it when people who did a module for their Arts degree start claiming they know more than people who've worked in the industry for 15 years.

 

[Overdriven]

I'd be less fat if I didn't have a cupboard full of chocolate.

 

[Scouse]

Just found this which is also interesting:

Beware of the sewage emanating from Fake News websites

If you’ve spent any time on social media in the last week or so you’ve probably seen complaints about ‘Tory MPS voting to pour sewage in our rivers’. As someone who is passionate about the environment, I couldn’t believe that politicians would vote to do this and was about to call my MP to...

capx.co

Same old argument that was being made in the 90's Deebs:

"The real issue here is practicalities, namely setting specific timetables when there is no real data on the costs, and how to spread these costs between companies, customers and taxpayers"

Or, in other words: "It's too expensive!!!!".

Yeah, fuck you guys. You've been saying that for 50 years. What is needed is a paradigm shift in how we approach this - and it *starts* with regulation and MASSIVE fines.

Then, and only then, will companies be foreced to fix and innovate.

Any other outcome IS a vote to pour raw sewage out every time there's a bit of rain.

Our infrastructure is not fot for purpose. Until we legislate it never will be. This is an *OLD* problem.

 

[Gwadien]

The word context. One was asking, one was specifically blaming Brexit on us not improving our laws over current like-for-like EU laws, somehow.

You do understand context...right?

I was? I acknowledged that we were adopting the existing laws, but I was questioning why we're not going one step further in the post Brexit UK, as this is our chance to address flaws that we saw in EU law...

I don't see how I'm blaming Brexit whatsoever tbh.

 

[Scouse]

I do love it when people who did a module for their Arts degree start claiming they know more than people who've worked in the industry for 15 years.

Who's worked in the industry for more than 15 years @Bodhi?



This guy, who wrote the bullshit article you posted?

 

[Bodhi]

Who's worked in the industry for more than 15 years @Bodhi?

View attachment 45125

This guy, who wrote the bullshit article you posted?

No, this lady.


View: https://twitter.com/RainwaterLorna/status/1452601793838567430?s=20


The one who wrote the tweet thread I posted about some of the nuances of the debate. If you read again, you'll see it wasn't me who posted the article in question, which also goes into the nuances of the debate.

Want to try again?

 

[Raven]

No, this lady.


View: https://twitter.com/RainwaterLorna/status/1452601793838567430?s=20


The one who wrote the tweet thread I posted about some of the nuances of the debate. If you read again, you'll see it wasn't me who posted the article in question, which also goes into the nuances of the debate.

Want to try again?

Meanwhile, in the real world.


View: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-59050129

 

[Bodhi]

Meanwhile, in the real world.


View: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-59050129

Not sure if I ever suggested it was a problem that didn't need fixed, I was just providing more information on the subject to help understanding of the problem. Thought being understanding the problem helps fixing it, and is generally far more productive than finding our favourite bogeymen to blame it on.

Although interestingly I grew up near Monifieth beach just outside Dundee, and a feature I'll always remember was the massive sewage outflows taking tonnes of shit out into the River Tay. We went back there last year on holiday to see they had gone - even though the local water company had been taken over by some evil capitalist pigs. It seems they invested lots of money the government weren't prepared to, and the problem went away locally.

So really, we should just do more of that.

 

[Raven]

The problem is that sewage is repeatedly, and deliberately, dumped into our water while billions are paid to shareholders.

It's actually pretty simple compared to other issues, such as the huge amounts of water wasted through a poorly maintained infrastructure, which while they need to do a far better job, can at least be difficult to get at.

The reason they dump sewage is that the fines are tiny compared to the cost of processing it properly, and they don't give a fuck.

3 strikes, you lose your franchise, you would be amazed at how rapidly them sort themselves out.

 

[Scouse]

No, this lady.

Want to try again?

It's a fair cop. Hands up, I thought you'd written about the other thing.

Still doesn't negate anything I've written about the issue.

@Raven's video is instructive - but we've known about this literal shit for longer than I've been alive. It was a hot topic in the 90s when I was studying for my degree in paper mache - and we've done fuck all about it since as it's simply got worse and worse.

So yes. We've a lot of money that needs spending. The sort of money that water companies would fold under - because they wouldn't be able to pay out their billions to shareholders.

Funnily enough, the sort of money we'd claw back from stopping funding fossil fuels would not only pay for the insulation of houses, it'd also pay for fixing this.


We've got a fuckton of money in Blighty. It's just not for us plebs or anything we care about.

 

[Bodhi]

I'll assume neither of you have a pension then?

 

[Scouse]

I'll assume neither of you have a pension then?

You'd hope by now that pension funds - especially the government ones - will have divested away from fossil fuels. I know I have.

Either way - it's a fucking piss poor excuse to keep throwing shit into our rivers and into the sea.

Is there literally any subject that you're not "I don't give a fuck about the environment" about?

 

[Bodhi]

You'd hope by now that pension funds - especially the government ones - will have divested away from fossil fuels. I know I have.

Either way - it's a fucking piss poor excuse to keep throwing shit into our rivers and into the sea.

Is there literally any subject that you're not "I don't give a fuck about the environment" about?

Not really sure what fossil fuel companies have to do with our aged drainage infrastructure pouring faeces into the ocean? I was thinking more that your pension fund might be one of the beneficiaries of Severn Trent tbh.

Do I think we should be pumping shit into the ocean? No. Do I think it's a problem we can solve by moaning about the Tories and privatisation? Also no.

 

[Deebs]

The word "first" @Raven?

Anyway @Deebs - they're going to blame cost. They're going to say they would have to redesign our entire sewerage system since the 1890's to put in proper capacity to deal with rainfall.

Of course, as someone who studied sewer design and treatment plant design at university, that's bullshit. They're just the pipes. IMO it's the treatment plants that need massive capacity uplift IMO.

But private companies won't do it. Aren't doing it. They're still paying shareholders because it's cheaper to be fined (not that they ever get fined) to dump raw shit into our watercourses.

As has ever been the case. We've not progressed on any environmental measure during my lifetime - but we have managed to put a shitload of species out of comission for good, and put huge swathes of other species, plants and animals, on the verge of extinction.

Have the Tories been in power since the 1890's? If not go blame some other fuckers.

 

[Deebs]

Same old argument that was being made in the 90's Deebs:

"The real issue here is practicalities, namely setting specific timetables when there is no real data on the costs, and how to spread these costs between companies, customers and taxpayers"

Or, in other words: "It's too expensive!!!!".

Yeah, fuck you guys. You've been saying that for 50 years. What is needed is a paradigm shift in how we approach this - and it *starts* with regulation and MASSIVE fines.

Then, and only then, will companies be foreced to fix and innovate.

Any other outcome IS a vote to pour raw sewage out every time there's a bit of rain.

Our infrastructure is not fot for purpose. Until we legislate it never will be. This is an *OLD* problem.

The point is you cannot just blame the Tories. It has been going on for fucking years before they got in power.

 

[Scouse]

The point is you cannot just blame the Tories. It has been going on for fucking years before they got in power.

Aye. I don't disagree.

But on this vote, today, with what we understand today and all of the stuff that's come out about the continued devestation the Tories have instructed their MPs to vote for continued status quo.

So the fact that we're going to let this continue? Tories.

"Whatabout" the past is just that - whataboutery. We could do something now. We need to do something now. We're not doing it.

 

[Raven]

At the end of the day we won't even begin to do our part as a country with the Tories in power, I pretty much think the same for Labour, but this isn't an us problem specifically, it is global, we could go carbon negative tomorrow, and it would make fuck all difference if nobody else does. All this left vs right, brexit vs EU bullshit is not helping at all, firstly, it's boring as fuck, secondly it distracts from actual critically important issues. As a species we need to be on a war footing, it's not going away.

The way we are going, humanity is doomed, we won't be missed, the planet has recovered from worse than us, several times. If you have children, fear for their future.

 

[BloodOmen]

 

[BloodOmen]

 

[Scouse]

How do we feel about this sexual assault story?

Huma Abedin: Clinton aide details unwanted kiss by US senator

In a new book, Huma Abedin says the senator made an unwelcome advance after inviting her into his home.

www.bbc.co.uk

"after a Washington dinner she walked out with the politician and when they stopped in front of his home he invited her inside for coffee.

Then, in an instant, it all changed. He plopped down to my right, put his left arm around my shoulder, and kissed me, pushing his tongue into my mouth, pressing me back on the sofa.
"I was so utterly shocked, I pushed him away.

the senator apologised and said he had "misread" her, before asking if she wanted to stay.

[She said]'I am so sorry' - and walked out"


?

 

[Deebs]

lol


View: https://twitter.com/KEdge23/status/1453258001335324685

 

[Scouse]

I think it's a fair response to that line of questioning @Deebs.

If we'd been insulating britain's outdated housing stock when it was first called for then we'd already be much more energy efficient, our carbon emissions and energy usage would be lower, people would live in warmer houses with lower energy bills and nobody would be getting blocked from getting to hospital because of the desparation of people redponding to what we've allowed to become an environmental emergency.

 

[Deebs]

I think it's a fair response to that line of questioning @Deebs.

If we'd been insulating britain's outdated housing stock when it was first called for then we'd already be much more energy efficient, our carbon emissions and energy usage would be lower, people would live in warmer houses with lower energy bills and nobody would be getting blocked from getting to hospital because of the desparation of people redponding to what we've allowed to become an environmental emergency.

Is it only the UK's outdated housing that needs insulating around the world? They can protest all they want but they do not have the right to disrupt other people's lives with their fucking antics.

Personally I think the Police should be allowed to remove the glued cunts from the roads and then reglue them to the pavements and walk away.

 

[Deebs]

This is worth spending two minutes of your life:


View: https://twitter.com/Nuevocentos/status/1452618320843141120

 

[Scouse]

Is it only the UK's outdated housing that needs insulating around the world?

No. But that's just more whattaboutery. We live in the UK, the UK has a problem we're not dealing with, the protests are in the UK - and they wouldn't be disruptive if we hadn't ignored the problem for so long.

People are already dying because of global warming. I went to uni in the early 90's with a maldivian who knew full well that his country was soon to be buried beneath the waves. His government paid for him to come to the UK to study in the vain hope that he could become a voice for his people. But the world didn't give a shit, in the same way they hadn't given a shit for the preceeding thirty years.

So now we're at where we're at. And guess what - the insulate britain protestors don't give a shit whether people are delayed getting to work. And I suspect that whilst they regret any deaths caused they ultimately have decided that why shouldn't some of the deaths that are happening on the planet happen in the UK?

This sort of long-predicted social unrest is just the beginning.

Cause = Effect.

You and I will be dead but there will be wars on the back of mass migrations because of this. Huge swathes of the planet are already starting to become unliveable.

So tell me @Deebs - considering the UK is the heartland of the worldwide coal and fossil-fuel based industrial revolution that set us on this path - why should we be immune from the unrest and, ultimately, the death?

We're reaping what we've sowed. We need to act - and by act, not 'shoot the messenger' - but by trying our hardest to fix the issue.

We can start by insulating our fucking houses.

 

[Scouse]

This is worth spending two minutes of your life:


View: https://twitter.com/Nuevocentos/status/1452618320843141120

It's a metaphor for our action on the environment.

At the first sign of trouble he could have stopped and reversed and the damage would have been slight. But like an idiot twat he carried on and it just got worse and worse.


Sorry.
/I'llgetmycoat

 

[Deebs]

No. But that's just more whattaboutery. We live in the UK, the UK has a problem we're not dealing with, the protests are in the UK - and they wouldn't be disruptive if we hadn't ignored the problem for so long.

People are already dying because of global warming. I went to uni in the early 90's with a maldivian who knew full well that his country was soon to be buried beneath the waves. His government paid for him to come to the UK to study in the vain hope that he could become a voice for his people. But the world didn't give a shit, in the same way they hadn't given a shit for the preceeding thirty years.

So now we're at where we're at. And guess what - the insulate britain protestors don't give a shit whether people are delayed getting to work. And I suspect that whilst they regret any deaths caused they ultimately have decided that why shouldn't some of the deaths that are happening on the planet happen in the UK?

This sort of long-predicted social unrest is just the beginning.

Cause = Effect.

You and I will be dead but there will be wars on the back of mass migrations because of this. Huge swathes of the planet are already starting to become unliveable.

So tell me @Deebs - considering the UK is the heartland of the worldwide coal and fossil-fuel based industrial revolution that set us on this path - why should we be immune from the unrest and, ultimately, the death?

We're reaping what we've sowed. We need to act - and by act, not 'shoot the messenger' - but by trying our hardest to fix the issue.

We can start by insulating our fucking houses.

Where is the money going to come from? Whatever we do won't make a difference until China, India, Australia and the USA sign up and do something. Our CO2 emissions have been dropping steadily for a while now so we are doing something. However most people cannot afford to insulate/install double glazing without support and again we have no money.

If you think those cunts are winning the majority support of the public think again. I do support the fact that we must act as a species but I will never support a movement which fucks up ordinary people's lives and can possibly cause death by their actions.

 

[DaGaffer]

Where is the money going to come from? Whatever we do won't make a difference until China, India, Australia and the USA sign up and do something. Our CO2 emissions have been dropping steadily for a while now so we are doing something. However most people cannot afford to insulate/install double glazing without support and again we have no money.

If you think those cunts are winning the majority support of the public think again. I do support the fact that we must act as a species but I will never support a movement which fucks up ordinary people's lives and can possibly cause death by their actions.

China, India and the USA are doing something. The Chinese in particular will just impose decarbonisation and the population will have to get on with it.

As for the likes of Australia and Russia; stop buying their stuff and they will have to do something. If western Europe moves away from Russian gas, which they should do anyway for strategic as well as environmental reasons, the problem goes away.

This is the reason why the likes of the UK can't get into the idea of "well if other countries don't..."; the UK needs to be one of the countries (along with the EU and other developed nations) that leads decarbonisation because they are high consumption markets that can influence what gets made and consumed. If dirty fracked Canadian oil is heavily carbon taxed by the US, then Canada has to fix the problem or shut down.

 

[Deebs]

China, India and the USA are doing something. The Chinese in particular will just impose decarbonisation and the population will have to get on with it.

As for the likes of Australia and Russia; stop buying their stuff and they will have to do something. If western Europe moves away from Russian gas, which they should do anyway for strategic as well as environmental reasons, the problem goes away.

This is the reason why the likes of the UK can't get into the idea of "well if other countries don't..."; the UK needs to be one of the countries (along with the EU and other developed nations) that leads decarbonisation because they are high consumption markets that can influence what gets made and consumed. If dirty fracked Canadian oil is heavily carbon taxed by the US, then Canada has to fix the problem or shut down.

According to data the UK is doing something...