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[Yoni]

I recommend reading Orcs by Stan Nicholls

It's great. Honest. You'll never think about orcs the same way again.

I read this about 6 years ago... Great book!

 

[Edmond]

So as Edmond's adventures in Tesco's continues.....tonight I was at the self service till packing one of my 'bags for life' when I noticed a big split in it, the helpful young lady said 'ooh, I'll get you a new one' which she put in the bagging bit and consequently fucked up the checkout.

Didn't realise this until I had filled my second bag and went to pay, it wouldn't let me so I called her over and told her I think it was because she put the new bag on the scale bit, 'oh yeah, let me just cancel that out for you'

Basically she wiped everything I had scanned in the second bag, got away with about £12 worth of shopping

Well, every little helps.....as they say at Tesco

 

[Access Denied]

So as Edmond's adventures in Tesco's continues.....tonight I was at the self service till packing one of my 'bags for life' when I noticed a big split in it, the helpful young lady said 'ooh, I'll get you a new one' which she put in the bagging bit and consequently fucked up the checkout.

Didn't realise this until I had filled my second bag and went to pay, it wouldn't let me so I called her over and told her I think it was because she put the new bag on the scale bit, 'oh yeah, let me just cancel that out for you'

Basically she wiped everything I had scanned in the second bag, got away with about £12 worth of shopping

Well, every little helps.....as they say at Tesco

Sounds like the people they have working days in my shop. I swear, lobotomised chimps could do a better job.

 

[old.Osy]

Sounds like the people they have working days in my shop. I swear, lobotomised chimps could do a better job.

That's so unfair to chimps.

 

[BloodOmen]

 

[Scouse]

Two years of forensic examination by a jury, the longest inquest in UK legal history.

The victims were unlawfully killed.

The fans were *blameless*.


D'ya hear that @Job?

 

[TdC]

Job would never let a little thing like a fact or an expert's conclusion cloud his opinions Scouse

 

[Job]

Guaranteed outcome, no jury on the planet would go against such emotion to defend some old guy who will probably just get a suspended sentence for a decades old bad call.
Still just a token decision, all the problems have been fixed for years, guys a scapegoat.
Forensic evidence?
What exactly?
Funnily enough the father in law was talking this weekend about how his wife was pulled from his arms at Hillsborough and sucked under the barriers, she lost her shoes and coat.
For the very first time I heard him admit it was drunk supporters with tickets, turning up late and trying to push to the front, which is exactly what happened there.

 

[Scouse]

Such a cunt.

 

[Raven]

Manslaughter by idiocy.
Perverting the course of justice by lying afterwards.

Jail time hopefully

 

[Job]

Manslaughter by incompetence , as usual these days, find someone to blame, handout the compo, people have no personal responsibility these days and they have apllied that logic to the 80's.
I'm just waiting to see if there's one person with the balls to point it out.
Unlikely with todays thought police.

 

[Ormorof]

They made a really stupid judgement, then lied and tried to cover it up (this is the criminal part), how you can be ok with that baffles me

 

[Job]

The questions put to the jury are a joke, the most leading set of instructions to conviction I have ever seen.
Did the fans turn up..yes
did they open the gates..yes
Did the people die because the gates were opened..yes
So the police killed them...yes.
Duty of care didn't even exist in the 80's...the guy fucked up, if the fans hadn't died in a crush, the games would have carried on like they did before.
You can hate on me all you like, but I refuse to be dragged into supporting popular anti authority reasoning that a lot of people around here use, its allways someone elses fault and its nearly always aimed at anyone with they think they can pass the buck to.

 

[Gwadien]

The questions put to the jury are a joke, the most leading set of instructions to conviction I have ever seen.
Did the fans turn up..yes
did they open the gates..yes
Did the people die because the gates were opened..yes
So the police killed them...yes.
Duty of care didn't even exist in the 80's...the guy fucked up, if the fans hadn't died in a crush, the games would have carried on like they did before.
You can hate on me all you like, but I refuse to be dragged into supporting popular anti authority reasoning that a lot of people around here use, its allways someone elses fault and its nearly always aimed at anyone with they think they can pass the buck to.

So you're now basically implying that because it was in the past it was fine, I'm pretty sure if all this information was available in the 80s, the coppers responsible would still get arrested, they're trained on this shit, they should know what they're doing, and they're evidently doing something -very- wrong if people are dying. People are drunk and overcrowd football pitches -all- the time, if they had a problem with this, they'd breathalyse them at the door.

Anyway, looks like we should forgive Saville and get Rolf out of prison, because they committed crimes in the past, no?

 

[Job]

Breathaylse them at the door..really?
Firm an orderly queue chaps we just need to break out 2000 alcohol kits.
The systems in place now were simply not there in the 80's, there wasn't in work, you looked after yourself, goggles were for wimps, hard hats were worn if bricks were actually falling around you, I've seen guys lifting 3 ton racks into 4th floor with one guy holding his belt to stop him falling, at the time it was a disaster, but people took it in the context of life then, the anger against the police was much less than the anger against the Sun for outrageous 'pissing on the dead' claims, it has turned much worse since the world has become so much more safety and blame centered.
There is no grasp of the gulf between the 80s and now.

 

[Ormorof]

You keep saying that, who doesn't have a grasp of the difference between the 80s and now? Many of the people who disagree with you on these very forums were alive and well in the 80s...

 

[Job]

So use it to context what happened, the very fact that it had come so close, so many times before without a thing being done, but now one guy gets the blame.
Hopefully this will be addressed in time.

 

[Gwadien]

So you're saying that if I went to a football match during the 80s, and I got killed, no-one could be blamed, because 'of the times?'

It was also 'the times' where Operation Yewtree has caught out so many celebs, because people let it pass because 'of the times' do we apply that same logic to this?

The police were evidently corrupt, or we do we pass that off as a 'norm' in the 80s, and not make them responsible for their actions?

 

[Ormorof]

If you read the findings of the inquest it was the incompetence of certain police officers in charge that lead to the deaths, the guy who knew how the grounf worked and had a plan to deal with it was replaced by someone who hadnt been to the ground in 10 years, there was no plan to deal with a known bottleneck, they simply opened the gates and let the crush happen (despite claims of the gate being stormed, it was not)

Blood samples were taken from all the victims (even from a 10 year old ffs) and tested for alcohol, no evidence. The police claimed the fans were looting the dead, and yet the police have a clear log of what each victim was in possession of (including cash and other valuables) so again no evidence to support the "scum of humanity" idea

Yes it got crowded (and there were incidents at Hillsborough in 81 and 88 according to inquest) but that does not excuse the polices attitude and it certainly does not excuse the lies they told to cover their own backsides

 

[~Yuckfou~]

Soooo...
Compo claims incoming!!

 

[DaGaffer]

Duty of care didn't even exist in the 80's...

What the fuck are you talking about? Duty of Care has been established in English law since the 30s. There's a ton of case law, and funnily enough negligence and duty of care was pretty much the first part of the law I started studying when I went to University. In the late 80s.

 

[old.user4556]

I googled for images of Hillsborough, I never knew there was so many clear (and disturbing) images of the actual crush happening. I shall not post them here, you know how / where to find them.

 

[Aoami]

Espn did a 30/30 doc about it a few years back. There was some extremely graphic, disturbing footage in it. Its a good documentary though, worth a watch. Puts all the blame squarely at the door of the police chief, but also spends some time talking about your average mr plod who was at the scene... They all look absolutely distraught.

 

[Job]

I mean it wasn't implemented in any meaningful manner until the late 90s.
I think the best thing now for the Hillsborough campaigners is after the wads are paid out, is to publically forgive the gate guy for lying about his actions, otherwise it still looks like stubborn, whining scousers.
Put it to bed and hold their heads high.

 

[Job]

If you read the findings of the inquest it was the incompetence of certain police officers in charge that lead to the deaths, the guy who knew how the grounf worked and had a plan to deal with it was replaced by someone who hadnt been to the ground in 10 years, there was no plan to deal with a known bottleneck, they simply opened the gates and let the crush happen (despite claims of the gate being stormed, it was not)

Blood samples were taken from all the victims (even from a 10 year old ffs) and tested for alcohol, no evidence. The police claimed the fans were looting the dead, and yet the police have a clear log of what each victim was in possession of (including cash and other valuables) so again no evidence to support the "scum of humanity" idea

Yes it got crowded (and there were incidents at Hillsborough in 81 and 88 according to inquest) but that does not excuse the polices attitude and it certainly does not excuse the lies they told to cover their own backsides

This was addressed rather surprisingly on Sky news tonight, the commentator spoke of how , back then football fans were the pariahs of society and Scouse fans even lower, the priority of the Police was preventing violence and keeping the opposing fans seperate, crowd control was given minimal consideration...just herd them in like the cattle they are.
It's difficult for me because none of my mates went to football matches, and people who did seemed to rough asses, glorifying the aggro.
I easily bought into the description and I think its fair to say most people outside Liverpool still do regardless of the inquiry, especially after that jeremy kyle singalong outside the court.

 

[fettoken]

This is gold.

 

[Scouse]

Y'know, it's this sort of thing that makes me angry that people still respect and defer to authority.

a police officer who had spread stories that Liverpool supporters had stolen from victims, notoriously published by the Sun under the headline The Truth, admitted they were false...Gordon Sykes, a South Yorkshire police inspector...had never previously retracted the allegation that supporters picked the pockets of dead people. When first questioned, Sykes maintained that what he had said in an official Police Federation meeting on 19 April 1989, the day the Sun published its stories, was true: that he had been responsible for 10 dead bodies and “the bodies had nothing on them at all, not even a handkerchief”...

Sykes also spoke to confirm another infamous allegation, that one of the people who died at Hillsborough had “numerous wallets” on him, so was “one of the Liverpool pickpockets”

...The minutes of the 19 April Police Federation meeting, which the bereaved families were unaware of for 23 years, were published as part of the Hillsborough Independent Panel disclosure process in 2012...Sykes’s appearance in the witness box at the inquests on 10 October 2014 was the first time he had been questioned publicly on his spreading of those claims.

When challenged by Michael Mansfield QC...Sykes accepted a police log from the night of the disaster showed none of the 10 bodies he was referring to had been stripped of possessions...During Sykes’s evidence, it became clear not only that these stories were untrue, but that South Yorkshire police had the evidence all along that this was the case and yet had encouraged the stories and never corrected them.

And, as has been repeated today, not much has changed. People on the radio saying west midlands police were trying to put false words in people's mouths whilst interviewing them for the current round of investigations - as happened with my brother in law and his friends.

Scum.

 

[Aoami]

And, as has been repeated today, not much has changed. People on the radio saying west midlands police were trying to put false words in people's mouths whilst interviewing them for the current round of investigations - as happened with my brother in law and his friends.

Scum.

In that document i mentioned, there is actual footage of the police interviews - it's fucking awful. They're 100% putting words in the mouths of people clearly to distraught to speak properly, let alone think clearly. Absolutely awful.

 

[Job]

Stealing from dead bodies is hardly new, but I can barely believe anyone cracked up enough to consider that would be at a football match waiting for his chance, but the very fact that people believed him says a lot of their prejudices against thieving scousers, which runs to this day.

 

[Raven]

Just leave it, Job.

You absolute imbecile.