SPAM This thread is for random spam!!

[Edmond]

Vulcans were the ones that went over fro here to the Falklands. Awesome planes

Yes, I think it was the Vulcan that took out the airport runway so the Argie's couldn't land, in fact one of the guys flying yesterday was on the one of the crew from the Falklands

On a side note, all the planes are leaving Farnborough atm, and there has been a steady stream of the sound of jets taking off this morning, but the A380 actually left yesterday at about 6.00pm as we were all leaving, everyone stopped and watch it go

 

[Urgat]

Driving a hot hatch in a high motor vehicle crime area is a reason to be suspect.

I'm saying that these reasons catch innocent people at times and if you continue with the same behaviour or mode of transport in the same areas you are going to get stopped more.

Don't think I ever said anything about fabrication.

You can be innocent and drive a suspect type of car and get pulled lots without it being illegal. You wake up numb nuts.

Are you serious?!?

Stopping someone because they are driving a hot-hatch in a high crime area is the DEFINITION of an illegal stop!

Seriously, stop posting about this, you have no fucking clue what you're talking about!

That's like saying... "Being a black man in a known drugs area is a reason to be suspected"

You ARE talking about fabrication!

THAT is the definition of fabrication... "Numb nuts"

(see what i did there? I also reinforced my argument with a childish insult. That's what we are doing now... Right?)

 

[Urgat]

You honestly think it is easier to be arrested on suspicion of drink driving before blowing into a tube just to prove you know your rights?

A police officer cannot ask for you to provide a roadside breath test without reasonable suspicion that you have been drinking. (Smell, erratic driving, etc)

You are entitled to ask what their reason for stopping you is, and you are entitled to ask why they suspect you of drink-driving. Ensure you film all if their responses for your own evidence.

You should then comply with the breath test, to avoid being arrested for "failure to provide"

If you feel you have been unfairly stopped, you can then file a complaint, with your evidence, to the ipcc.


Edit... Dammit! How do i multi quote, please?

 

[Edmond]

Edit... Dammit! How do i multi quote, please?

Just hit reply to all the ones you want to quote, and it will line them up in your reply box

 

[Urgat]

Just hit reply to all the ones you want to quote, and it will line them up in your reply box

<----- nublord

Cheers! I r teh bad at forimz!

 

[DaGaffer]

The law may be different in your country. I can't comment on the police powers there. If its the same as here, then congrats on being on of the mindless controlled sheep that states strive to produce.

For an example of "the problem" i would ask you yo watch an episode of a uk program called "traffic cops"

Not one episode goes by without at least one of the state sponsored thugs on uniforms saying something akin to ...

"This guy looks dodgy... Ill pull him over and see if i can nick him for anything"

Abuse of power is a crime. Not knowing your rights, and enabling this kind of behaviour from law enforcement, is just as bad. IMO

The UK is actually very much in the minority when it comes to random police checks (its basically us and the US that don't allow it). I've been subject to random stops here in Ireland and in Australia; in both places the cops just threw up a road block and stopped everybody. Interestingly the one way that can happen in the UK isn't via the police, its via Customs & Excise.

 

[Raven]

My only dealings with police have always been positive really...don't be a cunt don't get treated like a cunt.

Years ago a few of us were on our way back from a night out in town, driver hadn't been drinking but car full of lads coming out of town at 2am, the stop seemed reasonable enough.

Anyway, two coppers get out and tell the driver why they have pulled him over. Does the breath test and confirms no alcohol. He then politely asks if he can breathalise all of us and explains it is his colleagues first night out and wants to show him a positive test. No problems at all, spent nearly an hour chatting to them both afterwards.

Called them out once because someone smashed a car window in the street, they were there 20 mins later and really polite again.

Meh, I would love to see how people think we would manage without a police force, but they are generally the type of people that think they could still get their shiny rainbow powered golden rocket cars if everyone got paid the same.

 

[old.Tohtori]

then congrats on being on of the mindless controlled sheep that states strive to produce.

see what i did there? I also reinforced my argument with a childish insult. That's what we are doing now... Right?)

Ahem.

Anyway, as said before; nothing to do with being a sheep, all to do with not giving a f*ck. You're more distressed about your government given rights(yeah irony right there) then about something bad actually happening.

 

[Edmond]

I've only ever been pulled over because I was speeding or not wearing a seatbelt. When I was 19 I had a Escort RS turbo that was a year old, had it for 3 yrs. I only got stopped in it once because I had no seatbelt on. The guy was more interested in talking about the car and how much my insurance was as I was only 19 (these were the day before silly insurance groups and stupid policy costs)

My attitude is that if I speed or don't wear a seatbelt then I deserve to be stopped, and when I have (which is only about 4-5 times in the 27yrs I've been driving) the police have never been arseholes and consequently neither have I, because I know I'm in the wrong

If you start backchatting and being cocky to them then you have to expect them to get narked with you, I'm not saying they should drag you out of the car and get you in a throat hold, but why should they bother if you're acting like a twat

 

[Raven]

You are in a high pressure, thankless customer facing job, some snotty little gobshite starts giving you hassle for no reason. You have the power to make things akward for 30 mins or so and still get paid for it.

Do you A. Grovel with the annoying little prick or B. make them late.

Those who instantly start squealing about knowing their rights probably don't.

 

[Urgat]

My only dealings with police have always been positive really...don't be a cunt don't get treated like a cunt.

Years ago a few of us were on our way back from a night out in town, driver hadn't been drinking but car full of lads coming out of town at 2am, the stop seemed reasonable enough.

Anyway, two coppers get out and tell the driver why they have pulled him over. Does the breath test and confirms no alcohol. He then politely asks if he can breathalise all of us and explains it is his colleagues first night out and wants to show him a positive test. No problems at all, spent nearly an hour chatting to them both afterwards.

Called them out once because someone smashed a car window in the street, they were there 20 mins later and really polite again.

Meh, I would love to see how people think we would manage without a police force, but they are generally the type of people that think they could still get their shiny rainbow powered golden rocket cars if everyone got paid the same.

Don't get me wrong, i am a firm believer in law and order and the need for a police force. I too have had nothing but good dealings with police, I just can't stand the abuse of power that is continually demonstrated by some members of the constabulary. And the more people that realise what their rights are, and interact with police correctly, the better.

Ahem.

Anyway, as said before; nothing to do with being a sheep, all to do with not giving a f*ck. You're more distressed about your government given rights(yeah irony right there) then about something bad actually happening.

Touche. I apologise, i should know better.

As for your last paragraph, sorry, i don't follow, i am distressed about what? The syntax is hard to follow. Can you elaborate please so i can form a response.


@Edmond thats the crux of this issue. Being stopped because your doing something wrong is not the problem. That is what SHOULD happen and i applaud it.

The issue is being stopped for no reason, or fabricated reasons in the hope of finding something. It happens a LOT and it SHOULDN'T.

 

[Raven]

Anyway, the way I see it is its like teaching. The good ones get bundled into the extreme minority of bad ones, the good ones get fed of all the moaning parents/public and fuck it all off to get more money doing something less demanding, leaving the dregs and people there to make up the numbers.

I remember some little cunt on here thought it was funny some copper was getting beaten up by some thieving twat in the riots a few years ago. People like that really should be chucked on an island full of criminals and no police force. See if they find their utopia.

 

[soze]

A police officer cannot ask for you to provide a roadside breath test without reasonable suspicion that you have been drinking. (Smell, erratic driving, etc)

You are entitled to ask what their reason for stopping you is, and you are entitled to ask why they suspect you of drink-driving. Ensure you film all if their responses for your own evidence.

You should then comply with the breath test, to avoid being arrested for "failure to provide"

If you feel you have been unfairly stopped, you can then file a complaint, with your evidence, to the ipcc.


Edit... Dammit! How do i multi quote, please?

That is my point though. If I pull you over and you immediately tell me you know your rights and stick a camera in my face while demanding a reason for being stopped things are not going to go well.

If you just say "Hello Officer" the first thing he is going to do is tell you why he pulled you over anyway. You are telling people to act in a way that is not in their best interest. When I got pulled over for going through a red if I had acted like you are telling me to there is zero chance I get away with a warning. Instead I get 3 points but at least the coppers knows I know my rights! If he does not tell you why he stopped by all means tell him you know your rights and he has to tell you but starting off that way comes off as very aggressive. And like I said when people do that to me about returning hardware they earn their spot at the bottom of the list.

 

[Urgat]

That is my point though. If I pull you over and you immediately tell me you know your rights and stick a camera in my face while demanding a reason for being stopped things are not going to go well.

If you just say "Hello Officer" the first thing he is going to do is tell you why he pulled you over anyway. You are telling people to act in a way that is not in their best interest. When I got pulled over for going through a red if I had acted like you are telling me to there is zero chance I get away with a warning. Instead I get 3 points but at least the coppers knows I know my rights! If he does not tell you why he stopped by all means tell him you know your rights and he has to tell you but starting off that way comes off as very aggressive. And like I said when people do that to me about returning hardware they earn their spot at the bottom of the list.

If you pull me over after i run a light, i damn well know why you are stopping me. Your argument is not relevant to the point at all!

Again, this is about being stopped for NO reason. Or fabricated reasons.

It is illegal!

Why is this so difficult for people to grasp? Its like folks are conditioned that the police are gods who must be obeyed no matter what.

They aren't, they are public servants who have to operate within the framework of the law.

 

[Edmond]

@Edmond thats the crux of this issue. Being stopped because your doing something wrong is not the problem. That is what SHOULD happen and i applaud it.

The issue is being stopped for no reason, or fabricated reasons in the hope of finding something. It happens a LOT and it SHOULDN'T.

In my experience and my mates too, we have never been stopped for 'doing nothing'. I think the problem is that you get stopped once, act like a dick to the officer, they go back to the station and in the tea room they chat about 'the little twat in the Citroen/Peugeot who was a gobby prick' and you have tagged yourself, expect to be watched and try to be caught out

 

[Urgat]

In my experience and my mates too, we have never been stopped for 'doing nothing'. I think the problem is that you get stopped once, act like a dick to the officer, they go back to the station and in the tea room they chat about 'the little twat in the Citroen/Peugeot who was a gobby prick' and you have tagged yourself, expect to be watched and try to be caught out

I don't doubt it. It doesn't change the fact that it happens, though. And it shouldn't. It is abuse of power.

 

[DaGaffer]

Most of us live in the real world and aren't stupid; running around shouting "I know my rights" is going to get you a shitty experience, and most of us shut up, say "yes sir, no sir, how high do you want me to jump sir?" and get on with our lives. However, this does not mean that the cop who stopped you is right (assuming it was a random stop). Generally speaking in the UK the cops aren't stupid and they'll always give you a reason for a stop, even if its pretty facile ("driving erratically" is usually the favourite because it can cover pretty much everything, although its more difficult for the cops now because they're being recorded too, but something as trivial as late braking can be used as "evidence" for a stop). This is what offends people; you know they're being dicks, they know they're being dicks, but the balance of inconvenience is against you so you let it slide.

I have done the whole "I know my rights" thing once, because I figured "fuck it, my time is being wasted anyway" when the police were searching everyone for drugs at the train station on the way to V-Festival. So they got a six month old puppy of a police dog to sniff my crotch and then they could say "yep, the dog says drugs" and search me. Utterly absurd. And no, I didn't have any drugs.

To be honest, I don't really hate UK cops, I've dealt with good ones, bad ones and unfortunately, a lot of largely useless ones (let's put it this way, I've been the victim of crime 2-3 times in my life and the police did squat. I've been a witness once and the police did squat), compared to cops in other countries (the Garda are pretty fucking awful and unbelievably corrupt) they're as OK as you're going to get.

 

[old.Tohtori]

As for your last paragraph, sorry, i don't follow, i am distressed about what? The syntax is hard to follow. Can you elaborate please so i can form a response.

It just seems that the outrage of freedom violation causes more problems then the so called freedom violation in itself. For example raging over and over about cops because you're stopped twice a year takes more time to rage and fume about then the actual stops.

Also the paragraph has the keynote; i just don't care about police stopping me/anyone. It's not an issue of being blind/sheep, just that it's a non-issue.

 

[Urgat]

It just seems that the outrage of freedom violation causes more problems then the so called freedom violation in itself. For example raging over and over about cops because you're stopped twice a year takes more time to rage and fume about then the actual stops.

Ok, i see what you mean now, thank you.

To address your point...

Note the bolded words in your quote...

We agree then, that rights ARE being abused, this at least is a good thing.

For me it the principle, Toht. If we don't speak out about rights being abused we set a dangerous precedent. Where does it stop?

At what point do YOU care enough to speak up when your rights as a free man are being violated?

You don't mind being stopped for no reason... Fair enough... Where is your line?

Mine is any rights being violated, no matter how trivial it may be.

 

[BloodOmen]

 

[old.Tohtori]

We agree then, that rights ARE being abused, this at least is a good thing.

Well i used a term there that's easy to understand no matter the stance, i don't consider it a "violation" per say to be stopped. But that's me, not everyone.

At what point do YOU care enough to speak up when your rights as a free man are being violated?

You don't mind being stopped for no reason... Fair enough... Where is your line?

I'd probably draw it around freedom. If i'm stopped for an id check, that's cool. If i'm detained and taken to processing without a cause, not so much(unless it's a case of mistaken identity; for example looking like the guy that just kidnapped a person).

So i think my line would be drawn between inconvinience and harassment. Pre-punchy shovey arrest for no reason and post-asking questions.

 

[Urgat]

Well i used a term there that's easy to understand no matter the stance, i don't consider it a "violation" per say to be stopped. But that's me, not everyone.



I'd probably draw it around freedom. If i'm stopped for an id check, that's cool. If i'm detained and taken to processing without a cause, not so much(unless it's a case of mistaken identity; for example looking like the guy that just kidnapped a person).

So i think my line would be drawn between inconvinience and harassment. Pre-punchy shovey arrest for no reason and post-asking questions.

But i am not talking about opinions or interpretations of "terms" here, i am talking about actual legalities, as defined by the very acts the police are enforcing.

Its not subjective at all, it is ILLEGAL for an officer to stop you without cause... It really is that simple.

When it happens (and it DOES happen) Why should we let them get away with it?

We differ significantly on this matter, i think.

For me, the unwarranted stop without cause is the line.

I believe that if we, as a society, allow the unquestioned authority of the state to interfere with our day to day lives when we are innocently going about our business, we are on a slippery slope.

There IS such a thing as "the illusion of freedom"

Anywhoo... Enough from me i think. Back to the random spam.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Yeap, might be illegal(stories of how vary driver to driver ofc and always sides on the storyteller), but the caring of it is still subjectional. Jaywalking is illegal, but i don't mind people doing it.

And i think everyone pick&chooses which laws are "big enough" to follow, jaywalking being one of them. But yeah, we just disagree on it, nothing big and ones own choice ofcourse

 

[Raven]

Jaywalking is not illegal in the UK.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Just an example sir, just an example

 

[Zarjazz]

Jaywalking is not illegal in the UK.

I still have no idea what jaywalking even is, but yeah, that is true in the UK.

 

[Raven]

As far as I can tell, its crossing the road where there isn't a zebra, pelican or chicken crossing

 

[soze]

But i am not talking about opinions or interpretations of "terms" here, i am talking about actual legalities, as defined by the very acts the police are enforcing.

Its not subjective at all, it is ILLEGAL for an officer to stop you without cause... It really is that simple.

When it happens (and it DOES happen) Why should we let them get away with it?

We differ significantly on this matter, i think.

For me, the unwarranted stop without cause is the line.

I believe that if we, as a society, allow the unquestioned authority of the state to interfere with our day to day lives when we are innocently going about our business, we are on a slippery slope.

There IS such a thing as "the illusion of freedom"

Anywhoo... Enough from me i think. Back to the random spam.

The reason is the subjective part. I have never been stopped and the police officer told me he will not tell me why he stopped me. You may (and correctly in the case of "You have red seats") not like his reason but as long as it is a reason he is allowed to stop you for then he has not stopped you illegally? From the sounds of it Scouse has always been given a reason just most of them seem a bit pathetic. So this pulling you over for no reason argument is not really valid. They will always give a reason you just need to decide if you want to complain about the reason after wards.

 

[soze]

As far as I can tell, its crossing the road where there isn't a zebra, pelican or chicken crossing

Crossing the road anywhere other than a designated crossing while you have a green walk light. You can look both ways and see no traffic for miles and cross at 3.30am and still get banged up. Virgin Atlantic warned us that one of the cities we were going to were really hot on it and numerous tourists have been arrested on a Friday night and held until they could see a Judge Monday morning.

 

[Urgat]

The reason is the subjective part. I have never been stopped and the police officer told me he will not tell me why he stopped me. You may (and correctly in the case of "You have red seats") not like his reason but as long as it is a reason he is allowed to stop you for then he has not stopped you illegally? From the sounds of it Scouse has always been given a reason just most of them seem a bit pathetic. So this pulling you over for no reason argument is not really valid. They will always give a reason you just need to decide if you want to complain about the reason after wards.

Stop, please. I can't make it any clearer than i already have.

The bolded part if your quote is 100% wrong. And the very issue that is being discussed here.

A police officer cant just "stop you for any reason they decide to give" doing that is illegal itself!

In order to stop you, A police officer has to SUSPECT YOU OF A CRIME. (Stop and search areas notwithstanding)

That is a very different thing.

If you can't understand that simple concept, there is no further point discussing the matter (which is mainly the reason i said i was done, because it seems that is the case here)