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Raven

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And yes, Hamas are cunts too but Hamas isn't Palestine. The guy with the nukes needs to be the bigger person here. It's F15s vs Toyotas with a whole load of innocent people caught in the middle. But like I say, Israel aren't interested in that, they just want to expand.
 
Raven

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Yes, they are organising their homemade rockets, that Israel already has a defence against, in a flat. Answer, blow the entire block up, including any families living there.

Sounds reasonable, sounds Russian.
 
Embattle

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Wij said:
The IDF thread says that the blocks were being used for military purposes.

And fireworks is trivialising the rocket attacks which have killed Israelis. I know it's not symmetrical but there's no value in pretending that Hamas have done nothing.
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A basic problem being that the IDF is as accustomed to telling lies as much as Hamas.
 
DaGaffer

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Raven said:
Yes, they are organising their homemade rockets, that Israel already has a defence against, in a flat. Answer, blow the entire block up, including any families living there.

Sounds reasonable, sounds Russian.
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Anyone else suffering from serious deja vu? Hamas or Hezbollah lob rockets into Israel, Israel responds with "disproportionate" force, everyone in the west gets the vapours. We've had this exact conversation on this forum at least twice before.

Its a Hamas fundraising drive. Every time they need some money they do this and their coffers fill up.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, a plague on both their houses.
 
Scouse

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Difference being @DaGaffer - hamas is organising a prison riot.

When they're not lobbing rockets the racists get back on with slow ethnic cleansing, burning of crops, punting people out of their homes and replacing them with jews.

The equivalence with hamas is false. Fuck israel.
 
Gwadien

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@Wij you're very vocal about China and Russia but you're pretty much giving Israel a free pass, why?

Political ideology?
 
Aoami

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DaGaffer said:
Anyone else suffering from serious deja vu? Hamas or Hezbollah lob rockets into Israel, Israel responds with "disproportionate" force, everyone in the west gets the vapours. We've had this exact conversation on this forum at least twice before.

Its a Hamas fundraising drive. Every time they need some money they do this and their coffers fill up.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, a plague on both their houses.
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Hamas may have started the rockets, but they didn't start the conflict - What is happening in occupied East Jerusalem’s Sheikh Jarrah?, https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news...t-clashes-culminate-in-rocket-fire-1.9791777/

Also you've got Iran fanning the flames.

The whole things a mess, but there is no denying Israel as the aggressors in this particular situation imo. Obviously not necessarily sure it needed rockets being launched.
 
DaGaffer

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Aoami said:
Hamas may have started the rockets, but they didn't start the conflict - What is happening in occupied East Jerusalem’s Sheikh Jarrah?, https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news...t-clashes-culminate-in-rocket-fire-1.9791777/

Also you've got Iran fanning the flames.

The whole things a mess, but there is no denying Israel as the aggressors in this particular situation imo. Obviously not necessarily sure it needed rockets being launched.
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I will never, ever understand why Palestinians insist on living anywhere near Israel; I'd have left decades ago and certainly never considered raising children there. Instead there are 2m people living in Gaza, versus 60,000 in 1948. The Israelis are the villains here, undoubtedly, but its a big world out there.
 
Scouse

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Wij said:
I'm not. I'm just stating that Hamas isn't squeaky clean.
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Nobody is saying they are. But you're very vocal on them and don't condemn israeli aggression.

Not just here, but across all similar and associated threads tbh.
 
Scouse

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DaGaffer said:
I will never, ever understand why Palestinians insist on living anywhere near Israel; I'd have left decades ago
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If people tried to kick you off your land, had throughout your life killed various members of your friends and family, had instituted racist systems that not just functionally but physically discriminated against you and this is the world you grew up in maybe, just maybe, you'd want to fight them.

There is no just solution to this conflict that I can see that involves the continued existence of Israel as an entity tbh.
 
Gwadien

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DaGaffer said:
I will never, ever understand why Palestinians insist on living anywhere near Israel; I'd have left decades ago and certainly never considered raising children there. Instead there are 2m people living in Gaza, versus 60,000 in 1948. The Israelis are the villains here, undoubtedly, but its a big world out there.
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Urbanisation? I'm sure records in 1948 wouldn't have properly documented all the rural dwellers.

Besides I don't find the 'if you don't like it fuck off' argument too great - why didn't the blacks in south Africa leave it for the whites?
 
DaGaffer

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Scouse said:
If people tried to kick you off your land, had throughout your life killed various members of your friends and family, had instituted racist systems that not just functionally but physically discriminated against you and this is the world you grew up in maybe, just maybe, you'd want to fight them.

There is no just solution to this conflict that I can see that involves the continued existence of Israel as an entity tbh.
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If I was a single young man, yes I'd probably fight them. But I wouldn't raise a family to continue the fight if I had any choice. Fuck that noise.

Gwadien said:
Urbanisation? I'm sure records in 1948 wouldn't have properly documented all the rural dwellers.

Besides I don't find the 'if you don't like it fuck off' argument too great - why didn't the blacks in south Africa leave it for the whites?
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The British kept the records. Gaza was basically fishing villages in 1948.

As for the SA example; its not comparable. Townships, for all their horrors, weren't refugee camps, and the economic situation in other southern African countries at the time was worse, not better. The opposite is true here; all these people would have better lives in Jordan or Egypt or beyond.
 
Moriath

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DaGaffer said:
If I was a single young man, yes I'd probably fight them. But I wouldn't raise a family to continue the fight if I had any choice. Fuck that noise.



The British kept the records. Gaza was basically fishing villages in 1948.

As for the SA example; its not comparable. Townships, for all their horrors, weren't refugee camps, and the economic situation in other southern African countries at the time was worse, not better. The opposite is true here; all these people would have better lives in Jordan or Egypt or beyond.
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Yup. But religion 🤪
 
Wij

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Scouse said:
Nobody is saying they are. But you're very vocal on them and don't condemn israeli aggression.

Not just here, but across all similar and associated threads tbh.
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I just see most people on here firmly taking sides so I try to point out that it's not that simple. Having said that I've voiced my opinions on Netenyahu before. He's a cunt who couldn't give a shit about anyone else's life.

I'm just not sure that wishing Israel had never existed is the best way to think about this. From the remains of the ottoman empire twenty-odd nations arose which are constitutionally or spiritually Muslim and/or Arab. The idea that there couldn't just be one that was tilted towards the Jews seems quite unfair.

As gaff says, at the time there were hardly any people in most of what is now Israel. Sure the whole thing was badly done and is hellish now but it doesn't mean the idea was inherently unjust.

Neighbouring states want the conflict to go on. It gives them something for the population to be angry about that isn't their own government.

Hamas wants conflict. It gives them money and control. Netenyahu wants conflict. He was just about to lose power. Now he will probably keep it. Hamas is happy for him to stay or they wouldn't have been doing this now which they know plays into his hands.

I have Jewish friends, some aren't supportive of the current state of Israel/Gaza. However I don't make common cause with people like this:


View: https://twitter.com/gunnerpunner/status/1393920559243829248
 
Raven

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In the same way it's not Jews that are cunts, it's the state of Israel, those cunts in the video don't represent the majority of Palestinians.
 
dysfunction

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Raven said:
But bags of milk? Bags of petrol?
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must be some stupid obscure social media thing.

You used to be able to buy bags of milk in South Africa many many years ago. A way to help reduce plastic. might still be able to
 
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