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Bodhi

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Good argument.
It's all that was needed when replying to that word salad about cancer of the face and tobacco executives enjoying killing their customers (they don't), or that they're marketing to kids on an Instagram account that has an 18+ rating (they aren't).

Nicotine is not the problematic part of a cigarette - it's the delivery mechanism which has issues. What the tobacco companies would like to do, is to provide ways of still taking in nicotine in a less harmful way - hence the focus on vaping, heat not burn, Lyft etc. After all, nicotine is no worse for you than caffeine, and I'm guessing most people on this board have had a coffee or two this morning.


So if we can still have nicotine without the harms of smoking - what's the problem? The tobacco companies are on board - Philip Morris want to reach a point where they can stop selling Marlboro in favour of IQOS, and the other tobacco companies are looking to do similar.

Given the numbers quoted - vaping being 95% safer than smoking, Heat Not Burn being 90% safer - it would be an enormous public health win if everyone switched to reduced harm products tomorrow. This is why I cannot understand the anti-vaping hysteria - and hysteria is the right word, as it has no basis in fact. If you double down on the evils of vaping, people won't quit all nicotine, they'll just go back to smoking. GG Public Health numpties.
 

Raven

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I am not sure if you are aware, but nicotine is also highly addictive and offers no real benefit once you are hooked, the hit goes, and it becomes dependency...much the same as alcohol, and a few years ago I was borderline alcoholic, so I am well aware of how enjoyment becomes dependence with zero enjoyment...and I am ex-smoker.
They are literally aiming to get people addicted, and therefore financially hooked, onto putting a bit of plastic into the mouth for no reason.

And using grubby 'influencers' to do it, to try and make it look 'cool and necessary' when it plainly isn't, which is just fucked. As an alternative to wean people off tobacco products, fine, no problem but getting people addicted to something? Yeah, no.
 

Moriath

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It's all that was needed when replying to that word salad about cancer of the face and tobacco executives enjoying killing their customers (they don't), or that they're marketing to kids on an Instagram account that has an 18+ rating (they aren't).

Nicotine is not the problematic part of a cigarette - it's the delivery mechanism which has issues. What the tobacco companies would like to do, is to provide ways of still taking in nicotine in a less harmful way - hence the focus on vaping, heat not burn, Lyft etc. After all, nicotine is no worse for you than caffeine, and I'm guessing most people on this board have had a coffee or two this morning.


So if we can still have nicotine without the harms of smoking - what's the problem? The tobacco companies are on board - Philip Morris want to reach a point where they can stop selling Marlboro in favour of IQOS, and the other tobacco companies are looking to do similar.

Given the numbers quoted - vaping being 95% safer than smoking, Heat Not Burn being 90% safer - it would be an enormous public health win if everyone switched to reduced harm products tomorrow. This is why I cannot understand the anti-vaping hysteria - and hysteria is the right word, as it has no basis in fact. If you double down on the evils of vaping, people won't quit all nicotine, they'll just go back to smoking. GG Public Health numpties.
I got shit post and facepalmed to hell suggesting nic was the same as alcohol or caffine.
 

Bodhi

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I am not sure if you are aware, but nicotine is also highly addictive and offers no real benefit once you are hooked, the hit goes, and it becomes dependency...much the same as alcohol, and a few years ago I was borderline alcoholic, so I am well aware of how enjoyment becomes dependence with zero enjoyment...and I am ex-smoker.
They are literally aiming to get people addicted, and therefore financially hooked, onto putting a bit of plastic into the mouth for no reason.

And using grubby 'influencers' to do it, to try and make it look 'cool and necessary' when it plainly isn't, which is just fucked. As an alternative to wean people off tobacco products, fine, no problem but getting people addicted to something? Yeah, no.
I'm guessing you missed the comment at the end of the article I posted from the CEO of the Royal Society for Public Health:

"Getting people onto nicotine rather than using tobacco would make a big difference to the public’s health – clearly there are issues in terms of having smokers addicted to nicotine, but this would move us on from having a serious and costly public health issue from smoking related disease to instead address the issue of addiction to a substance which in and of itself is not too dissimilar to caffeine addiction.”
So presumably, going by your rant above you'll now be suggesting limitations on the ability of Kenco and Douwe Egberts to advertise their addictive wares? After all, anyone who has been in an office when the coffee machine breaks, and sees the wailing and carnage until it's fixed has had a clear view of the dangers of caffeine addiction, and how crabbit people get when you cut off their supply. I mean Big Coffee are clearly trying to keep their customers addicted so that they continue to buy more, which is how it works no?

And as for no real benefit, Nicotine has shown to be effective in protecting against Parkinson's, Alzheimer's and Ulcerative Colitis, lessens the symptoms of Tourette's, ADHD, Depression and Schizophrenia, enhances memory and delays the onset of arthritis, helps reduce weight gain and has been linked in reducing the cytokine storm associated with COVID-19, and ergo the likelihood of a bad outcome.

10 Surprising Benefits of Nicotine

Sounds like lots of benefits to me tbh.

Anyway enough of that. I'm off to have a Heet and smash some more work.
 

Moriath

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I am not sure if you are aware, but nicotine is also highly addictive and offers no real benefit once you are hooked, the hit goes, and it becomes dependency...much the same as alcohol, and a few years ago I was borderline alcoholic, so I am well aware of how enjoyment becomes dependence with zero enjoyment...and I am ex-smoker.
They are literally aiming to get people addicted, and therefore financially hooked, onto putting a bit of plastic into the mouth for no reason.

And using grubby 'influencers' to do it, to try and make it look 'cool and necessary' when it plainly isn't, which is just fucked. As an alternative to wean people off tobacco products, fine, no problem but getting people addicted to something? Yeah, no.
Caffeine is the same. The hit you take or think you get when waking up is just bringing you to the normal level of a non drinker as otherwise you are under par and with drawing. Hence you get headaches etc of you dont drink it.
if you are a non drinker f coffee for example you will get a buzz that will go away after you become addicted to it.
not as addictive as nic but it does the same thing.
 

Scouse

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cancer of the face and tobacco executives enjoying killing their customers (they don't)
I've decided you can't actually read so I'm going to stop responding to you completely.

I don't know whether it's a mental abberation or an emotional issue but you consistently twist and embellish what is written, giving an entirely new context and then reply/argue with that. So it's pointless.
 

Raven

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Idiots and those with the least to lose still think it's all fine though.

I don't actually think there is much we can do now, we have been in a state of panic about it for decades but little has actually changed.

But, even China, who couldn't give a fuck about anything except micromanaging what people have for their breakfast or whatever are starting to care...but far too late.
 

Scouse

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I don't actually think there is much we can do now
Loads can be done really quickly. Covid has proven that we can cope with rapid societal change.

The changes we'd need to make would mean we need to give up things - but if anything has taught us what's imporant Covid has shown us that it's the who we get to spend time with, not the things we purchase, that make life worth living.

Problem we have is that rich people need us to want things to remain rich. And although they intellectually understand what's required they cannot make the emotional leap required to put their shit on the line (even if it means they wouldn't become paupers - billionaires can never be).
 

Raven

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Oh, personally you could turn the lights off, block the petrol pumps, stop shipping plastic shit all over the world completely, and I would be fine.

Too many people. It's as simple as that.

To use an analogy, too many users on a system, it crashes/resets with fewer users when it reboots. Human population is unsustainable and needs to be reduced.
 

Raven

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And I should add, lots of humans, sitting around essentially doing nothing except consume food is also a problem. Want some furniture, buy it (import it halfway around the world) Want feeding, just buy box meals! Sourced from who the fuck knows where.

People are useless, low skilled (real skills) and inefficient. The world is chock-full of people living shoulder to shoulder, over populating and producing nothing, but consuming everything.

Still, get another monster out the fridge and stick the 65-inch on to watch another celebrity bedwetting, or whatever is the favourite atm!
 

Scouse

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Too many people. It's as simple as that.
I agree 100% there are too many people. Environmentalists have been banging on about that for many decades now. Mr Attenborough finally came out a few years ago and admitted the same.

But there's absolutely a system that can work with 7bn humans on the planet. We've already worked it out, but just lack the will to do it.

We definitely lack the will to reduce the population - and every time we've tried that it's been an absolute horror show. We could talk about whatever population-reducing policies you like. But in the meantime, if we're to survive, we need to move to the system we know can work.

It's as simple as that. It's only execution of the plan that's hard.
 

Scouse

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So then. Do we believe he wasn't bombed out of his skull?
 

Scouse

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Vaccine Passports being pushed by leftie wankers again.

The narrative is all about who hasn't been vaccinated and how do we prevent them going to the pub.

The real argument is - by June the vast majority of us will be immune from Covid with only tin-foil-hatters and conspiracy wankers left unvaccinated. So why should all of us who've been vaccinated have to prove it to get into pubs and restaurants? "Papers Please" at every door.

What a horrible infringement of our civil liberties.

Frankly, if covid is still a threat post-vaccination then it'll be killing idiots at that point (yes, there are bound to be exceptions). And whilst I fully support all the life protecting actions we've taken so far there does come a point that it has to end - and that point is when all the willing have been vaccinated.

So between April and July we can keep our social distance, drink outside pubs, not show our identity card papers to the social stazi and then carry on with life, rather than succumb to fear.
 

Bodhi

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He isn't in a good way is he. Entire leg has been crushed. Lucky to be alive.
Very unlikely he will play golf again really.
Not good. To be fair Ben Hogan came back from far worse, but Tiger was already pushing being the bionic man with amount of surgery he's had, so might be a bit touch and go. Fingers crossed considering how much he's done for the game over the years.


Not sure if he was stoned - sounded like he was rushing to a TV appearance and lost it.
 

Moriath

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Vaccine Passports being pushed by leftie wankers again.

The narrative is all about who hasn't been vaccinated and how do we prevent them going to the pub.

The real argument is - by June the vast majority of us will be immune from Covid with only tin-foil-hatters and conspiracy wankers left unvaccinated. So why should all of us who've been vaccinated have to prove it to get into pubs and restaurants? "Papers Please" at every door.

What a horrible infringement of our civil liberties.

Frankly, if covid is still a threat post-vaccination then it'll be killing idiots at that point (yes, there are bound to be exceptions). And whilst I fully support all the life protecting actions we've taken so far there does come a point that it has to end - and that point is when all the willing have been vaccinated.

So between April and July we can keep our social distance, drink outside pubs, not show our identity card papers to the social stazi and then carry on with life, rather than succumb to fear.
But not being vaccinated is bad for society. It increases the chance of a mutation as there are more people who can be affected.
so i guess the question is should society put up with this risk. Or should it ensure those who didnt want to vaccine are kept out of circulation as much as possible so the mutation chance is lower?

i dont think its as black and white as you paint it.

before you go off on one i dont know what the answer should be just that its not as simple as you paint it.
 

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