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[Embattle]

The simple fact is that trains are very expensive to run.

 

[Bodhi]

They need to chuck out the rule book and experiment with prices, I would imagine if trains were more reasonable they would see much more traffic.

I can get to London on a coach for like £20 return, but if I'm looking at an off-peak train ticket you're looking at £100-120.

The wife has a season ticket to get into Birmingham every day for week, so we've been picking up the raises as well, hers has just gone from £1800 to about £1900, and whilst it's not great the service she gets for that is pretty good - there is far more variance in the time I get home from brum due to the M6 as she has on the trains. She has a choice of companies to use (Cross Country is quicker but rammed, what used to be London Midland is a bit slower but you can get a seat) and any delays she has are usually due to Network Rail (the public owned part of it).

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Privatisation has been a resounding success (mainly as most routes don't actually have any competition) , but I don't think a return to the BR days will fix anything - mostly as our main problem is a lack of capacity on the main lines. If we can find a cheaper way to do that than HS2, then we might be on to something.

 

[Gwadien]

The simple fact is that trains are very expensive to run.

You're a Tory through and through aren't you?

You're missing my point entirely, if you charge people less then more people are going to use it.

Whilst our Train services are nice in the UK, they're very gentrified, you don't see many normal families using them, whereas on the continent they're very much seen as a PUBLIC transport service, for instance in Poland you can jump on an old rickety Soviet train for £3 (Yeah, I know, it's Poland) and travel 30 miles. That doesn't happen in the UK, it costs me £17 or something to travel from Leicester to Nottingham, which is 15 miles.

 

[Bodhi]

Trains in the UK are a VERY middle class thing. Everyone else drives.

 

[Gwadien]

Trains in the UK are a VERY middle class thing. Everyone else drives.

Exactly, that's something that needs to change, Trains are rammed at rush hour then dead for the rest of the time, it's ridiculous - why only offpeak is a thing in London I'll never know.

The amount of times I've been on the Sheffield to St Pancras and visa versa and having a carriage to myself was silly.

 

[Bodhi]

Exactly, that's something that needs to change, Trains are rammed at rush hour then dead for the rest of the time, it's ridiculous - why only offpeak is a thing in London I'll never know.

The amount of times I've been on the Sheffield to St Pancras and visa versa and having a carriage to myself was silly.

We have the choice of On Peak, Off Peak and Super Off Peak to any of the major stations on the WCML, and that's from the backwater of Stafford. Main reason peaks happen is because people have to get to work, end the 9 to 5 or encourage home working and that goes away.

 

[Job]

When comparing most people leave out the utter fucking pain in the ass of getting to the station..waiting for the fucking thing, cramming yourself on it and getting where you actually want to go at the other end.
Im not even going to start on all the other shite.
Plus, the prices are for individuals, four people in a car share the cost.

If you also add in the increased house prices nearer the station....and the sheer drudgery of the whole process.
I fucking weep seeing people at bus stops in the rain, who are going to a station to wait in the cold for a train.

 

[Job]

Trains in the UK are a VERY middle class thing. Everyone else drives.

In London and its commuter belt.
Up here mostly the poor use the train.

 

[Gwadien]

I don't use trains but I can you about my experiences of them.

OK Job.

Your description of 'standing in the cold for the train' is massively wrong, and you clearly haven't been to a train station in a very long time, because most train stations these days have these lovely little rooms you can sit in where you keep nice and warm.

Trains are very middle class and as a result Trains in the UK are very nice compared to trains on the continent (bar the super fast trains)

 

[Bodhi]

When comparing most people leave out the utter fucking pain in the ass of getting to the station..waiting for the fucking thing, cramming yourself on it and getting where you actually want to go at the other end.
Im not even going to start on all the other shite.
Plus, the prices are for individuals, four people in a car share the cost.

If you also add in the increased house prices nearer the station....and the sheer drudgery of the whole process.
I fucking weep seeing people at bus stops in the rain, who are going to a station to wait in the cold for a train.

We live 5 minutes from the station in Stafford. Our house costs the same as one the other side of town.

You utter cockwomble.

 

[fettoken]

I would like to add that with Trains, you always have a horrible experience when taking a shit.

 

[Hawkwind]

Exactly, that's something that needs to change, Trains are rammed at rush hour then dead for the rest of the time, it's ridiculous - why only offpeak is a thing in London I'll never know.

The amount of times I've been on the Sheffield to St Pancras and visa versa and having a carriage to myself was silly.

In general its cheaper to hire a car for the day than get a train. You then get the added bonus of flexibility on times and journey end points etc. Looked so many times at getting trains to go see people in UK and every time its cheaper to either fly or hire a car.

 

[Embattle]

You're a Labour supporter through and through aren't you?

You're missing my point entirely, you are only charging less to the user but more to everyone since it has always been the case someone has to pay for those expensive running costs.

Just so you don't make the mistake again, I've voted Labour a couple of times before I voted Conservative....hell I even voted Liberal Democrat once.

 

[Job]

We live 5 minutes from the station in Stafford. Our house costs the same as one the other side of town.

You utter cockwomble.

It might be where you live..but in the London commuter belt prices ramp up near public transport.

 

[Scouse]

In general its cheaper to hire a car for the day than get a train. You then get the added bonus of flexibility on times and journey end points etc. Looked so many times at getting trains to go see people in UK and every time its cheaper to either fly or hire a car.

This is definitely true for more than two people.

If you can get a seat tho train travel is way more relaxing.

 

[Gwadien]

You're a Labour supporter through and through aren't you?

You're missing my point entirely, you are only charging less to the user but more to everyone since it has always been the case someone has to pay for those expensive running costs.

Just so you don't make the mistake again, I've voted Labour a couple of times before I voted Conservative....hell I even voted Liberal Democrat once.

I've never voted Labour or Tories, mainly because Kieth Vaz is my local MP and because I also hate Tory Lite and 80s Socialism.

Btw, I never ever ever ever said it should be nationalised, that was Bodhi that brought it up.

But sure, trains cost money to run, but I'm pretty sure you're paying alot more than the cost of the train since yano; All on board the gravy train - rail firms’ £3.5bn profit despite dire service

Cap the profits of the train companies, or transfer the cost of the National Rail on to private companies, because they're the ones that spend all the money, not private companies.

But hey, I suppose gentrified trains is what we want in a Tory Britain, I can't wait for HS2 to come out; £300 for cheapest ticket?

 

[Scouse]

Trsins should be nationalised and automated as much as possible.

Private companies are there to suck the value out of the rolling stock. It may cost us the same to run it as a state owned service with all those profits being sucked up through inefficiencies but at least the cash gets more widely distributed.

I reckon the level of service would be the same either way. So nationalise IMO.

 

[Job]

Lets not forget how much train tracks fuck up the layout and logistics of towns and cities.
Our coastal line splits 20 odd towns in half, half stuck against the coast, causing all the traffic to converge on bridges and crossings.
It causes mayhem in the rush hour, and most of the time theres not even a fucking train running on it.
Every 20 mins...so for every hour theres only three actual trains.
Say...500 people per train in rush hour..thats 1500 an hour.
An entire..uncrossable, high maintenance, intrusive, wasteful steel track running the whole coast for at the most 1500 people an hour.
If you came up with that idea tomorrow, you'd be laughed out of the room.
Especially if you could qoute the figures 6% of journeys by train in our area.

Aaaannd..its stupidly expensive, just two tickets is the same as a taxi, which is door to door, with all the obvious benefits.

 

[Gwadien]

Lets not forget how much train tracks fuck up the layout and logistics of towns and cities.
Our coastal line splits 20 odd towns in half, half stuck against the coast, causing all the traffic to converge on bridges and crossings.
It causes mayhem in the rush hour, and most of the time theres not even a fucking train running on it.
Every 20 mins...so for every hour theres only three actual trains.
Say...500 people per train in rush hour..thats 1500 an hour.
An entire..uncrossable, high maintenance, intrusive, wasteful steel track running the whole coast for at the most 1500 people an hour.
If you came up with that idea tomorrow, you'd be laughed out of the room.
Especially if you could qoute the figures 6% of journeys by train in our area.

That's the point though.

You make trains more affordable = you have less people on the road.

 

[Job]

Im pretty sure they are running flat out now...they have admitted today that the system is running at twice capacity.

UK trains 'are packed to near double capacity'

 

[Gwadien]

Im pretty sure they are running flat out now...they have admitted today that the system is running at twice capacity.

UK trains 'are packed to near double capacity'

Profit.

 

[Scouse]

Im pretty sure they are running flat out now...they have admitted today that the system is running at twice capacity.

UK trains 'are packed to near double capacity'

That's because private companies make more money putting less carriages on and don't invest in rolling stock.

It should be one of the easiest things in the world to schedule trains to cater for demand on a fixed-line fixed-distance, known-speed system but fragmentation, underinvestment and (the easiest form of) profit-generation conspire to make it nigh on impossible.

 

[Wij]

Seabourne Freght have been looking at Ramsgate - Oostend for a while now, see below article from April last year

Thanet council confirms talks with Ostend-Ramsgate ferry operator hopeful

Wut?


View: https://twitter.com/tom_watson/status/1080775548534734848

 

[Embattle]

Btw, I never ever ever ever said it should be nationalised, that was Bodhi that brought it up.

I never said you did, my point was just that they cost so much to run that they are always subsidised but the choice is by who and how much.

Trsins should be nationalised and automated as much as possible.

All tube, trains, etc should of been automated a long time ago but the main reason they haven't is also the main reason your comment on it is so funny as the main party for nationalisation is also the party supported by groups who represent the drivers.

 

[Bodhi]

That's because private companies make more money putting less carriages on and don't invest in rolling stock.

It should be one of the easiest things in the world to schedule trains to cater for demand on a fixed-line fixed-distance, known-speed system but fragmentation, underinvestment and (the easiest form of) profit-generation conspire to make it nigh on impossible.

It is, if the capacity on the line is there, but as I said, it isn't.

 

[Bodhi]

Wut?


View: https://twitter.com/tom_watson/status/1080775548534734848

If you were setting up a ferry company why would you start by buying some ships? Ever heard of the phrase "if it floats, flies or fucks, rent it"?

Total non-story imo.

 

[Job]

Wut?


View: https://twitter.com/tom_watson/status/1080775548534734848

Fucking lol

 

[Job]

No amount of investment is going to get past the fundamental inconvenience of a track based shuttle system that has next to zero flexibility on destination and package transport.
You are using public transport..you cant take fuck all on it without some kinda of luddite attitudes from the staff, wven didabled people in this day and age are treated like pariahs.
You get to be trapped in a box with zero backup when the local mouth breathers get on and rarely get a seat down south, they often kick you out into dodgy city centres at night only to be faced with a scramble for a taxi.

They are just fucking shit.

 

[Gwadien]

I agree with Scouse 100%, that's the problem with the Tories and Labour; Tories just wanna give money to their pals without actually providing a decent service whereas Labour want to nationalise it and have billions of workers on it and have no real progression.

Obviously the real response is to force automation upon the private sectors and force them to spend their profits on retraining staff so that they can stay within the industry, obviously there's going to be a reduction of jobs, but ultimately that's the idea.

Also @Job calling people luddites.

LOL.

 

[Wij]

If you were setting up a ferry company why would you start by buying some ships?

No. You’d start with a pizza delivery moped