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[Scouse]

Approving this motion from the SNP would have weakened our position

On one hand, maybe, but I don't buy it. The alternative decision would have given a lot of people in this country a huge sigh of relief (it's about their actual lives ffs!) and bought a lot of faith in the government.

And lack of faith government (all types) is why we're in this mess. These people need stability and certainty over their lives. We should have done it because it's the right thing to do. But instead our governments looks like the petty squabbling arseholes they are.

If they'd ensured that citizens are looked after on our side the EU has to follow suit or it'll look like absolute dicks in the eyes of everyone. Suddenly the UK would gain the moral high ground, and since we're currently grubbing about in the shit we desparately need some of that.

You may not be the "biggest fan" of using people of barganing chips - but "we are where we are" is a defeatist and accepting outlook. It's disgraceful that we've got a government that has chosen to do that. And it was a choice, an option to do the right thing that wasn't taken.

It's just another example of uncaring, not-for-the-people shitty UK government. And it's going to get worse for us, not better, as our government will be under the influence of / more easily pressured by more extreme viewpoints once we brexit.

Start as you mean to go on tho, eh?

 

[Raven]

I don't think anyone should be kicked out of anywhere as a result of Brexit, but then immigration wasn't really one of my concerns in the whole referendum shenanigans. However I can see why this was voted down - it's not a reflection of govt policy in the slightest, more the govt's negotiating position before we push the button. In the same way the EU have made no guarantees about UK citizens staying over there, we have made no guarantees about EU Citizens over here. Approving this motion from the SNP would have weakened our position, hence it getting voted down.

Can't say I'm the biggest fan of using people as bargaining chips, but we are where we are.

They won't get kicked out, it would be extremely impracticable for everyone. Its just a meaningless "thing" by irrelevant people because the moment they stop throwing their toys about is the moment people forget about them.

The fallout is that lots of hand wringers have got their knickers in a knot, because that is how they spend their time, being OUTRAGED about something or other.

 

[Bodhi]

On one hand, maybe, but I don't buy it. The alternative decision would have given a lot of people in this country a huge sigh of relief (it's about their actual lives ffs!) and bought a lot of faith in the government.

And lack of faith government (all types) is why we're in this mess. These people need stability and certainty over their lives. We should have done it because it's the right thing to do. But instead our governments looks like the petty squabbling arseholes they are.

If they'd ensured that citizens are looked after on our side the EU has to follow suit or it'll look like absolute dicks in the eyes of everyone. Suddenly the UK would gain the moral high ground, and since we're currently grubbing about in the shit we desparately need some of that.

You may not be the "biggest fan" of using people of barganing chips - but "we are where we are" is a defeatist and accepting outlook. It's disgraceful that we've got a government that has chosen to do that. And it was a choice, an option to do the right thing that wasn't taken.

It's just another example of uncaring, not-for-the-people shitty UK government. And it's going to get worse for us, not better, as our government will be under the influence of / more easily pressured by more extreme viewpoints once we brexit.

Start as you mean to go on tho, eh?

But that argument can easily be turned round - the EU could guarantee that our citizens can stay, then make us look like the bad guys, but as it is right now, no-one can claim the moral high ground. However our friends from Brussels are too busy posturing, saying how hard they are going to make it for us. Doesn't sound like a particularly benevolent organisation to me, but that's all it is right now - posturing.

 

[Scouse]

But that argument can easily be turned round - the EU could guarantee that our citizens can stay, then make us look like the bad guys, but as it is right now, no-one can claim the moral high ground. However our friends from Brussels are too busy posturing, saying how hard they are going to make it for us. Doesn't sound like a particularly benevolent organisation to me, but that's all it is right now - posturing.

I don't see why the EU should have to appear a benevolent organisation - we're the ones who voted to leave - the onus is on us to stop looking like petulant dicks in the light of our decision. To prove to our partners that we're not pulling up the drawbridges and sticking our fingers up at them - that we're still a reasonable, sensible nation of thinking people, not a rabble of retards.

Your argument is right out of the playground - "you go first", "no you!". It's not adult. Our government is acting like a petulant child - and fucking about with people's lives.

If we're to trust our own government it doesn't matter what the EU does. OUR government needs to act in the interests of the people living in this country first. Anything else is morally reprehensible and indicates that we cannot trust our own elected officials to do the right thing by the people in their country.

On its own, regardless of what the EU is doing, it's a disgrace.

 

[TdC]

But that argument can easily be turned round - the EU could guarantee that our citizens can stay, then make us look like the bad guys, but as it is right now, no-one can claim the moral high ground. However our friends from Brussels are too busy posturing, saying how hard they are going to make it for us. Doesn't sound like a particularly benevolent organisation to me, but that's all it is right now - posturing.

And faffing about not following through isn't posturing? Tbh it's ALL posturing Bods. Imo Scouse is spot on when he states where the onus lies.

 

[DaGaffer]

They won't get kicked out, it would be extremely impracticable for everyone. Its just a meaningless "thing" by irrelevant people because the moment they stop throwing their toys about is the moment people forget about them.

The fallout is that lots of hand wringers have got their knickers in a knot, because that is how they spend their time, being OUTRAGED about something or other.

You can claim that but it doesn't necessarily mean its true. If EU movement is a dead letter then everyone from the EU currently in the UK (with the possible exception of the Irish, who have a pre-existing agreement that's lapsed but could be resurrected), will need to get documentation; remain to leave or an actual work permit. That's a process, and you either start that process before Brexit actually happens, or it gets triggered on Brexit (which legally might actually be the only option), which means unless you can magically process a couple of million people on day one of Brexit, every EU citizen in the UK is suddenly on shaky ground because they've all become illegal immigrants overnight, in a strictly legal sense.

The longer their post-Brexit status is undetermined (which is what tends to happen when you use people as bargaining chips), the closer we get to Brexit day, the less time available to bring in a documentation process that doesn't put everyone in a default undocumented immigrant status. Now this logic applies equally to the EU, but its more complicated because individual EU countries will have to come up with their own rules for dealing with Brits on their territory (the EU doesn't actually speak with one voice when it comes to foreign residents in individual countries; e.g. retirees, pension transfers, local equivalents of NI etc.) . It actually makes things a lot easier for everyone if the UK makes the first move, because reciprocity is how these things normally work, it means the UK can set a rule and get back 27 similar answers, or wait for 27 views first and answer each one with different rules. Plus, the UK is the one leaving and its the right thing to do, both for the EU people in the UK and its own citizens abroad.

 

[Bodhi]

Easiest way to make us look like petulant dicks would be to guarantee our expats are safe, but we've been told no negotiating until we've triggered Article 50, so it will be an enormous game of chess until we do. I'm more interested in the end result tbh, and I will be properly surprised if anyone ends up getting sent home - it will be future migration that's up for discussion, not that in the past.

Oh and Teeds, thanks for agreeing with me when I say it's just all posturing. We'll get a better idea early next year, but I really don't this being a particularly messy divorce, as that isn't in anyone's interest, UK or EU.

 

[Scouse]

Easiest way to make us look like petulant dicks would be to guarantee our expats are safe, but we've been told no negotiating until we've triggered Article 50, so it will be an enormous game of chess until we do.

Again, what's that got to do with OUR government doing the right thing by the people in THIS country right now?

Our government could have passed a motion saying that everyone here could rest easy, could live their lives not under a cloud of worry (and I know people who've lived under that cloud and it's absolutely devastating on them and their families) could continue to contribute the way they always have.

Regardless of the EU the "easiest way to make us look like petulant dicks" is to act like the petulant dicks we're acting like right now.

 

[Raven]

Spain would be (even more) fucked if they got rid of the expats. Its funny that such a tiny little country, economically speaking could potentially have a huge effect on the map of the EU in future. A country that could cause the collapse of the EURO in a couple of years could also be the one that tells Scotland to piss up a rope regarding re-entry to the EU and put an end to the EUs childish posturing regarding foreign nationals living in the EU.

While we know that in reality all EU people (skilled in the very least, all most probably) currently living in the UK will be allowed to stay...they will, simple, people are upset about nothing...

Its really quite funny how salty the EU are being now. So glad we are on our way out, despite voting remain at the time. It's like a bitter, over controlling ex that just can't let it go. Lots of failed politicians trying to play the big man.

 

[Scouse]

lulz.


Anyway- really interesting documentary by Adam Curtis on over at the beeb. (It was on youtube but they've taken it down). Give it half an hour, really worth it.

 

[Job]

ESA lander freefalled from 1km.

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/jpl/camera-on-mars-orbiter-shows-signs-of-latest-mars-lander

 

[Raven]

At least when we did it the fucking thing landed before breaking.


...and had a proper name!

 

[Job]

I'm in love with the girl in the latest Easyjet advert.

Chloe Hirschman - Google Search

 

[georgie]

The world is all doom doom doom atm (apparently), let's have some kids being awesome.

Spoiler

 

[Moriath]

The world is all doom doom doom atm (apparently), let's have some kids being awesome.

Spoiler

Spoiler didnt work for me

 

[Raven]

Got some weird dutch cheese to go in a burger tomorrow. Thought I would give it a quick bite and ate the lot.

 

[Moriath]

Got some weird dutch cheese to go in a burger tomorrow. Thought I would give it a quick bite and ate the lot.

Poor burger

 

[Ormorof]

The other EU countries cannot make any guarantee of british citizens status in the event of brexit because the UK government have not actually initiated brexit, i imagine it is the same the other way around, a law cannot be passed in case something might happen

All of the SNP wanted was to score some political points, not to actually achieve anything

 

[Raven]

Its like that gay pardon thing, the SNP are getting their rage on because their shitty, rushed piece of crap got kicked in the knackers in favour of a much better version.

But that's what you get with nasty nationalists.

 

[Hawkwind]

I'm in love with the girl in the latest Easyjet advert.

Chloe Hirschman - Google Search

ads here
EasyJet Introduces a Quirky New Feel in This Surreal Spot - Video - Creativity Online

 

[Scouse]

Brexit's what you get with nasty nationalists.

Fixed.

 

[~Yuckfou~]

In other news we are getting a tattoo each. Our first so many researches have occured. Using a place in Manchester with a very good rep and an artist who's work we both like. Should be getting them done in next couple of weeks, can't deny I'm a little apprehensive about the pain part

So we are in the tattoo studio. Mrs Yuck is going first and seems fine with it so far. Hope I don't make a big girl of myself

 

[Edmond]

So we are in the tattoo studio. Mrs Yuck is going first and seems fine with it so far. Hope I don't make a big girl of myself

Wait for her to finish and then say 'you know what, I think I've changed my mind....'

 

[old.Osy]

So we are in the tattoo studio. Mrs Yuck is going first and seems fine with it so far. Hope I don't make a big girl of myself

I'm hangover and that website has given me instant nausea and headache

 

[Moriath]

Spent the past couple hours rescuing my mums laptop. 532 items found by malwarebytes lol. And shew as running in tablet mode on her laptop so hadnt emptied her recycle box for ever.

Running better now

 

[BloodOmen]

 

[Job]

 

[Scouse]

 

[caLLous]

 

[old.user4556]

Glenfinnan Viaduct, Kilchurn Castle, looks like a bit of Glencoe.