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[Job]

Bteastfeeding is best, but if you can"t for whatever reason..don't worry about it, use cows milk, powdered...whatever..it won't have the slightest effect compared to all the other factors in growing up.

 

[old.Osy]

Wow, what a pair of patronising arses. Who, by definition haven't breastfed or indeed have kids.

Sure you can point the finger at society's failings, but newsflash, it's the only one we've got. Enormous numbers of women have no choice about going back to work, and even those who don't can still have massive difficulties (about 10% get mastitis) , and I'd suggest that until either of you grow a functioning pair of tits, telling women they should just get their act together may result in a kick in the bollocks.

I suppose it's ok, not like britons need a good start in life anyway. Not like the countless disadvantages brought on by denying breastfeeding have a high occurrence rate. Let's mistreat our children from the beginning, it sets them up to become tough from the crib.

And I do have a daughter, I can see 1st hand how happy she is with the titties, and how valuable they are.

If women need to work, then postpone the procreation until such time you can afford investing resources and time in them children. Otherwise you're just mistreating your kids.

 

[Scouse]

Wow, what a pair of patronising arses.

Bollocks gaff. The percentage of women breastfeeding at 3 months (still well into maternity leave) in the UK is just seventeen.

I don't give a fuck what you've got going on in your life - if breast milk was a drug there'd be riots amongst parents demanding it for free - but because it's "difficult" or inconvenient then kids aren't being given the start they should in the UK.


And yes, I do blame our society. Reform is needed, but considering most women will still be off work at 3 months yet less than one in five of their kids is still being fed by the tit, despite the massive advantages, then that's simply bad fucking parenting.

For the one in ten who get mastitis, or have another another reason not to breastfeed, fair enough. For the rest? Fucking shit parenting.

 

[Bodhi]

Lecturing parents on how to behave when you haven't had kids yourself. Always an interesting position to take.....

 

[Scouse]

Care to offer an argument in support of the UK's woeful breastfeeding rates that contains any actual figures or data, @Bodhi or @Raven?

 

[Bodhi]

Well no as I'm not a parent, and have absolutely no plans to be at any point in the near future.

 

[Raven]

Care to offer an argument in support of the UK's woeful breastfeeding rates that contains any actual figures or data, @Bodhi or @Raven?

What are you on about? I don't care one way or the other...

 

[sayward]

OMG. You are all men. Come back to this topic when you have actually tried to breast feed.........

 

[Edmond]

I like Boobs, does that help at all?

 

[DaGaffer]

Bollocks gaff. The percentage of women breastfeeding at 3 months (still well into maternity leave) in the UK is just seventeen.

I don't give a fuck what you've got going on in your life - if breast milk was a drug there'd be riots amongst parents demanding it for free - but because it's "difficult" or inconvenient then kids aren't being given the start they should in the UK.


And yes, I do blame our society. Reform is needed, but considering most women will still be off work at 3 months yet less than one in five of their kids is still being fed by the tit, despite the massive advantages, then that's simply bad fucking parenting.

For the one in ten who get mastitis, or have another another reason not to breastfeed, fair enough. For the rest? Fucking shit parenting.

And there's the danger of stats; there's not just mastitis, there's ceasareans (another 15% in the UK, higher over here). You can breast feed after a section, but it's agony and dangerous, my missus did it twice, but I wouldn't wish it, or advise it for anyone, and neither would most doctors. So that's 25% gone, but then there's the simple reality that most women aren't going back to work because they want to, but because they must. And even then a lot try with breast pumps and all that malarkey, but once again it's a practical nightmare.

I just think it's absolutely fatuous to pontificate about this kind of thing until you've walked in a mother's shoes, and since you can't, you should probably shut the fuck up.

 

[Vae]

Agreed - I've seen at first hand the pressure put upon mothers to breast feed and then the sense of failure if it proves not to be possible for them. For my wife this then translated/exaggerated PND which was relieved when she switched to bottle feeding. Breast feeding doesn't work for everyone. It should certainly be encouraged as the better option but then mothers shouldn't be demonised for switching to formula. Believing manufacturers has nothing to do with it. Fully agree with both DaGaffer and Sayward.

 

[Job]

And I do have a daughter, I can see 1st hand how happy she is with the titties, and how valuable they are.

If women need to work, then postpone the procreation until such time you can afford investing resources and time in them children. Otherwise you're just mistreating your kids.

Well there's a scientific study.
Is the treatment working doc?
Well he looks happy.

 

[Hawkwind]

My wife had an emergency c section and the pressure she was put under after to breast feed was absolutely incredible. Especially since they nicked an artery during the c-section and she nearly died, lost 3+ liters of blood. The midwife who visited her at home could see it was not working, she was not expressing and only blood was coming out. The baby lost weight and it was our GP who finally stepped in at my request to tell the midwife to stop being stupid.

Where women can, they probably should. But, who the hell are we to make that decision for them. Every case is individual and the women has the rights to elect not to, if that is their wish. I really do not see how society or governments can legislate or pressure them to do differently. Educate on the benefits, hell yes.

 

[Scouse]

What are you on about? I don't care one way or the other...

You cared enough to facepalm my original post.

Anyway...

there's the simple reality that most women aren't going back to work because they want to, but because they must

I clearly stated that, twice. It's to our societies' enduring shame, remember?

I just think it's absolutely fatuous to pontificate about this kind of thing until you've walked in a mother's shoes, and since you can't, you should probably shut the fuck up.

But I don't accept that for a second. The argument is a pile of shite. It's a European and UK cultural problem - and the WHO figures back that position up.

Interestingly it's the more "enlightened" countries that have the highest rates:

Top 5
1) Norway. 99 percent of mothers ever breastfed, 70 percent breastfed exclusively at 3 months, 80 percent breastfed any at 6 months. Not coincidentally, Norway offers 36 weeks of 100 percent paid maternity leave and the right to daily nursing breaks for an unlimited time.

2) Finland. 93 percent of mothers ever breastfed, 51 percent breastfed exclusively at 3 months, 60 percent breastfed any at 6 months. Finland offers 18 weeks of 70+ percent paid maternity leave but no right to nursing breaks in the workplace.

3) Iceland. 98 percent of mothers ever breastfed, 48 percent breastfed exclusively at 4 months, 65 percent breastfed any at 6 months. Iceland offers 13 weeks of 80 percent paid leave but no nursing breaks.

4) Denmark. 98 percent of mothers ever breastfed, and 48 percent breastfed exclusively at 3 months. Denmark offers 18 weeks of 100 percent paid leave but no nursing breaks.

5) Sweden. 98 percent of mothers ever breastfed, 60 percent breastfed exclusively at 4 months, 72 percent breastfed any at 6 months. Sweden offers 60 weeks of 80 percent paid maternity leave and unlimited nursing breaks.

WHO’s long-term goal is to increase the rate of exclusive breastfeeding in the first 6 months from 38 percent worldwide to at least 50 percent by 2025.

One method: “Enact six-months mandatory paid maternity leave and policies that encourage women to breastfeed in the workplace and in public.”

If women feel shame in the UK then, whilst I think that's not a great outcome and I do sympathise, the childs needs comes first, not the mother's. I don't really care what you say, or what individual experience is - the facts show that those high breastfeeding rates are clearly achieveable - as the countries above demonstrate.

Women clearly need structural support and a cultural change, but that doesn't come with what I'm seeing above. The current state in the UK is not "OK".

 

[sayward]

Daughter's new baby was rushed to AnE throwing up blood. Turns out daughter's nipples were bleeding SO badly that's all the baby was getting.......

 

[Scouse]

Daughter's new baby was rushed to AnE throwing up blood. Turns out daughter's nipples were bleeding SO badly that's all the baby was getting.......

That has no bearing on the argument I'm making. (But, OW! either way)

80% of mothers at 6 months in Norway, 17% of mothers in the UK. Unless you're saying that we're a different sort of human?

 

[DaGaffer]

That has no bearing on the argument I'm making. (But, OW! either way)

80% of mothers at 6 months in Norway, 17% of mothers in the UK. Unless you're saying that we're a different sort of human?

Norwegian women get a year off work, paid, as do their partners. Not actually tenable in the UK. Norway is a terrible comparison because they have reserves to burn, and a low population and birth rate. Not to say that the UK model couldn't be a lot better (and Ireland is worse), but it could never be Norway.

 

[Job]

More importantly, the frickin size of her nipples!

 

[Scouse]

Norwegian women get a year off work, paid, as do their partners. Not actually tenable in the UK. Norway is a terrible comparison because they have reserves to burn, and a low population and birth rate. Not to say that the UK model couldn't be a lot better (and Ireland is worse), but it could never be Norway.

There's a whole list of countries who do this better than us - I just picked Norway because it's the top of the list. Pick another if you like - and I'll still think that we need to up our game massively.

But that doesn't change the fact that I said what you've just said in in my first post - it's economic and cultural. Not, however, because women can't do it. A lot of the time in the UK it's because they choose not to.

 

[Raven]

You cared enough to facepalm my original post.

Anyway...

I clearly stated that, twice. It's to our societies' enduring shame, remember?


But I don't accept that for a second. The argument is a pile of shite. It's a European and UK cultural problem - and the WHO figures back that position up.

Interestingly it's the more "enlightened" countries that have the highest rates:




If women feel shame in the UK then, whilst I think that's not a great outcome and I do sympathise, the childs needs comes first, not the mother's. I don't really care what you say, or what individual experience is - the facts show that those high breastfeeding rates are clearly achieveable - as the countries above demonstrate.

Women clearly need structural support and a cultural change, but that doesn't come with what I'm seeing above. The current state in the UK is not "OK".

mmm. I was very, very drunk last night so who knows.

But as a person who dislikes children and has no intention of having them, then meh to whether or not a mother gets her tits out.

 

[Lamp]

Got the piano tuner coming tomorrow morning

Every year without fail, the first thing he does is poo in our downstairs toilet.

Nice

 

[Tom]

There's a whole list of countries who do this better than us - I just picked Norway because it's the top of the list. Pick another if you like - and I'll still think that we need to up our game massively.

But that doesn't change the fact that I said what you've just said in in my first post - it's economic and cultural. Not, however, because women can't do it. A lot of the time in the UK it's because they choose not to.

Norway is also a considerably more expensive place to live than the UK though (I like it a lot and enjoy going there). I'll never forget paying £26 for a burger and a beer. DaGaffer is right, up there you have many more entitlements than the UK - but boy do they pay for them in taxes (not saying that's a bad thing).

 

[Scouse]

Norway is also a considerably more expensive place to live than the UK though

I agree.

Perhaps they've got it right then? They certainly have where it comes to looking after kids. Which, after all, is kinda an important function of animals.

 

[Tom]

Well you have to bear in mind that before oil was discovered, a lot of those places were dirt poor. And according to a friend of mine who lived in Denmark for some years, they're really quite protective of their culture - in a way that some people here might approve of.

I think we cherry pick what we like about other countries while forgetting it isn't all roses.

 

[caLLous]

Got the piano tuner coming tomorrow morning

Every year without fail, the first thing he does is poo in our downstairs toilet.

Nice

You get your piano tuned every year? How posh are you?!

 

[sayward]

Is there an easy way to get dates onto photos printed off an i phone5?

 

[Edmond]

Is there an easy way to get dates onto photos printed off an i phone5?

Sharpie?

 

[Ormorof]

This much debate on breastfeeding jaysus, yes its good, no its not always possible

There are many people, perfectly healthy people who want to breastfeed where the milk does not come

So if the options are let the kid starve or bottle them then formula it is

If the uk has such low rates i doubt its because of "being lazy"

 

[old.Osy]

This much debate on breastfeeding jaysus, yes its good, no its not always possible

There are many people, perfectly healthy people who want to breastfeed where the milk does not come

So if the options are let the kid starve or bottle them then formula it is

If the uk has such low rates i doubt its because of "being lazy"

I doubt you britons are so anatomically different from the rest of the world tbh. Job this, mastitis that, c section this - WTF mates, stop, it's embarrassing. Not sure if this is brought on by a misunderstood emancipation or laziness, or whatever it is - it is fundamentally different from other countries which are LESS developed - and that should worry someone, instead of brushing it off. Said it before, they're playing with the future of their kids. I'll stop discussing this now, I think I've said enough.

 

[Ormorof]

I doubt you britons are so anatomically different from the rest of the world tbh. Job this, mastitis that, c section this - WTF mates, stop, it's embarrassing. Not sure if this is brought on by a misunderstood emancipation or laziness, or whatever it is - it is fundamentally different from other countries which are LESS developed - and that should worry someone, instead of brushing it off. Said it before, they're playing with the future of their kids. I'll stop discussing this now, I think I've said enough.

Im not british nor do i live in the uk

Like i said the could be a whole plethora of reasons, it would be interesting to study why women in the UK breastfeed less and see how it can be changed

I dont see how shaming women and demanding they do something that they might not be able to do is going to help