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[Scouse]

it'll just have to wear out naturally, since we're not really willing commit.

Boots on the ground wouldn't fix the problem either. They wouldn't wear uniforms and form units and fromt up to forces - they'd dissapear into the local population and come out again when we leave. All the while leaving IED's all over the shop to help with their shares in penis transplant companies...

 

[Raven]

left-handed people.

To be fair though...

 

[Raven]

Also, throw stupid people in the mix and it makes matters worse.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-of-acting-suspiciously-with-an-a6766941.html

 

[DaGaffer]

Boots on the ground wouldn't fix the problem either. They wouldn't wear uniforms and form units and fromt up to forces - they'd dissapear into the local population and come out again when we leave. All the while leaving IED's all over the shop to help with their shares in penis transplant companies...

Someone ultimately has to put boots on the ground though; you can't take and hold territory with a UAV. It would just be better for everyone if those boots were being worn by Sunni Muslims rather than western squaddies.

 

[Moriath]

Way to miss the point of his argument completely.

Should be used to me doing that by now. I am.

 

[Scouse]

Someone ultimately has to put boots on the ground though; you can't take and hold territory with a UAV. It would just be better for everyone if those boots were being worn by Sunni Muslims rather than western squaddies.

Has to be someone who can stay - we can't.

In my most optimistic vision there's a large well-trained sunni force keeping the peace that don't react with horrible unjust violence to the fact that they're being murdered horribly and living in a hybridised version of 1970's Northern Ireland, Afganistan and an islamic Dante's Inferno.

Ah, who am I kidding - that's not a vision - it's an unrealistic fantasy

 

[Scouse]

Does that answer your question?

Aye m8. Well done on yer BMI. But you get ill quite a lot don't ya? And you'd be no good come the zombie apocalypse.

Rule One: Cardio

 

[Scouse]

Tell me more about this teapot.

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=885aUJnKb-Y

 

[Gwadien]

Boots on the ground wouldn't fix the problem either. They wouldn't wear uniforms and form units and fromt up to forces - they'd dissapear into the local population and come out again when we leave. All the while leaving IED's all over the shop to help with their shares in penis transplant companies...

Nah, we need a long term strategy agreed across the world and we need to ban politicians from making one of their election points that they'll 'bring the troops home'.

We need to make it clear to those teetering on the edge of extremism for the short term benefit of power that it doesn't matter where they hide we will find them and we will destroy them.

That's the best preventative measure, the longer we just pretend to care the longer the locals are like umm Is are still in control, may aswell join as their power (in their POV) is consolidating

 

[Ormorof]

So hunt them down and execute them

I thought assassinations were banned by geneva convention?

 

[Scouse]

we need to ban politicians from ...

Groan

it doesn't matter where they hide we will find them and we will destroy them.

How?

 

[Moriath]

Took long enough to find one man in bin laden let alone a whole group of radicals

 

[Scouse]

Took long enough to find one man in bin laden let alone a whole group of radicals

Yep, who'll wear the same clothes as everyone else, who'll live with sympathisers and/or in families who'll deny they're affiliated in any way.

Short of going through and exterminating everyone, which would clearly make us worse than hitler, how do you tell them apart?

And just imagine, even if you could, because they had "I HEART IS" tattooed on their forehead, do you just execute them if you come across them unarmed in their houses, with their kids in front of them? For being religious followers who believe what they're doing is right? If yes, do you take their kids out and shoot them too? And find their friends and family and kill them too, just in case?


Trying to beat an ideology with brute force is utterly moronic and ridiculous.


Edit: And human tbh. But that's a woeful indictment of our species more than anything else.

 

[Raven]

Actually, fuck it...why not?

Its about time humanity rid itself of these mental cases, we should take the hit now so that we can grow as a species rather than fuck about with a tiny minority. Religion has held us back for millenia and we are now pouring resources into keeping a lid on a few hundred thousand loons, money and resources that could be better spent elsewhere, eliminating famine, eliminating disease, whatever.

Fuck the lot of them, frankly.

 

[Gwadien]

Yep, who'll wear the same clothes as everyone else, who'll live with sympathisers and/or in families who'll deny they're affiliated in any way.

Short of going through and exterminating everyone, which would clearly make us worse than hitler, how do you tell them apart?

And just imagine, even if you could, because they had "I HEART IS" tattooed on their forehead, do you just execute them if you come across them unarmed in their houses, with their kids in front of them? For being religious followers who believe what they're doing is right? If yes, do you take their kids out and shoot them too? And find their friends and family and kill them too, just in case?


Trying to beat an ideology with brute force is utterly moronic and ridiculous.


Edit: And human tbh. But that's a woeful indictment of our species more than anything else.

So what do we do?

Whilst it's clear that @DaGaffer is clearly right that we can't beat an ideology by banning it, IS is taking control of large swathes which we can't penetrate with our ideology, so what's your response?

 

[Moriath]

So what do we do?

Whilst it's clear that @DaGaffer is clearly right that we can't beat an ideology by banning it, IS is taking control of large swathes which we can't penetrate with our ideology, so what's your response?

Its like northern ireland. We never wiped out theira or any splinter group. You have to win hearts and minds or it just continues. You can take them out of cou try control and all but they will still live within out civilisations.

You have to wear down the support by negotiation and compromise and wait for the hardline to dissipate.

Its not a short term thing. Even today theres the odd paramilitary incident in n ireland. Expect so from the middle east for decades.

 

[Ormorof]

Actually, fuck it...why not?

Its about time humanity rid itself of these mental cases, we should take the hit now so that we can grow as a species rather than fuck about with a tiny minority. Religion has held us back for millenia and we are now pouring resources into keeping a lid on a few hundred thousand loons, money and resources that could be better spent elsewhere, eliminating famine, eliminating disease, whatever.

Fuck the lot of them, frankly.

So according to google 84% of the earths pop associate with some religion or faith

So we are the minority, why should the majority listen to us? Because we have guns and are willing to bomb them if they don't? Hmmm that sounds almost like isis...

 

[Scouse]

So what do we do?

Obviously there's no easy and simple answer to that question - and I suspect you already know that.

But the human drive to "do something" is so strong that we absolutely retardedly take the actions that we're currently taking (and actions we've recently taken (Iraq being the obvious one)).


To beat an ideology first you have to accept that there are some people you can never win over. Then you have to prove to the ideologs that you have a better ideology, that you're more just, that you can provide a better way of life, a better ideal to strive for, that you have a higher morality for a greater good and that you can deliver it. Then you hope they look at you and wish for what you have and want to be a part of what you're doing.

For example: the reason that you see muslim and christian children abandoning their churches is because day-to-day life in Blighty makes the religious teachings less and less relevant.

Muslims are angry because of their not just perceived but very real victimisation by western societies. By our warmongering ways. You kill my family using drone attacks and I'll probably just feel bitter and spend the rest of my life espousing that to everyone I see - so at the very least I become a weapon against winning "hearts and minds". But I may suit up. I may join up with people that hate us. I may feel enough anger to do what IS is doing in the wake of the collapse of authoritarian regimes and in the face of a powerful west that says they want peace but bombs the shit out of us and our brothers - a west that can't even feed it's own people properly, that doesn't have freedom of speech, that detains muslims without trial and tortures them - in contravention of their own professed ruleset and ideology.

You start to beat an ideology by being whiter than white yourself. The rest is a long hard complex slog. But you must stick to your principles.



Edit:: Maybe then you'll have people who want to leave IS and come to Britain, rather than the other way round, eh?

Oh.

 

[Scouse]

Actually, fuck it...why not?

LOL!

Oh no! I wouldn't say bomb them all - it's a joke, right?!

Worse than Hitler you say? Well, he only killed jews, we'd kill everyone - innocents included! We're equal opportunities murderers!


Thank fuck you're just some retard on the internet Raven. In terms of growing as a species, I do hope you keep your genes to yourself

 

[Tom]

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=885aUJnKb-Y

I didn't know Jimmy Hill is Welsh...

 

[Raven]

So according to google 84% of the earths pop associate with some religion or faith

So we are the minority, why should the majority listen to us? Because we have guns and are willing to bomb them if they don't? Hmmm that sounds almost like isis...

I mean the crazies, not the people who can have a faith but also function as human beings.

 

[Raven]

LOL!

Oh no! I wouldn't say bomb them all - it's a joke, right?!

Worse than Hitler you say? Well, he only killed jews, we'd kill everyone - innocents included! We're equal opportunities murderers!


Thank fuck you're just some retard on the internet Raven. In terms of growing as a species, I do hope you keep your genes to yourself

No, kill the crazies...not all of them.

 

[Hawkwind]

The only way to kill a decent percentage of it is proper education. Why do you think Muslim schools (MENA Region) teach the Koran as a primary subject and nothing including science can contradict it. Social pressure will ensure a good percentage remain with faith though.
Also Muslim's have a bit of an issue with Apostasy, so that can be a bit tricky in countries with Sharia law. They tend to lose their heads a bit on that subject. Faith through fear! It's a powerful draw.

 

[Scouse]

No, kill the crazies...not all of them.

OK, lets run with this, I'll take it seriously and not troll you.

Given the arguments above:

A) How do you spot them when they live and look like everyone else - even more so when squaddies with guns turn up.
B) Do you kill their kids too? Innocent children who'd definitely become radicalised when the evil westerners killed their daddy?
C) What about their friends?

 

[Raven]

Is he trying to kill you. Yes. Kill him first.
Is he riding about in the back of a Toyota with an AK47 shouting about snackbars. Yes. Kill him.
Is he just trying to go about his daily business. Yes. Don't kill him.

 

[Gwadien]

The only way to kill a decent percentage of it is proper education. Why do you think Muslim schools (MENA Region) teach the Koran as a primary subject and nothing including science can contradict it. Social pressure will ensure a good percentage remain with faith though.
Also Muslim's have a bit of an issue with Apostasy, so that can be a bit tricky in countries with Sharia law. They tend to lose their heads a bit on that subject. Faith through fear! It's a powerful draw.

Muslim majority schools (Not faith schools) are very interesting.

There were definitely divided parents, there was one group, like one wearing jeans and tshirts whilst the other were wearing prayer shit and burqas and stuff.

One group definitely was getting bigger than the other, and it was the latter.

Sure they pray to Allah to get that promotion at work, but that's acceptable.

It's quite cool having a class room of 9 year old muslims, and talking about religion and stuff, for one kid to go 'yeah, people who aint muslim are going to hell innit' and the others are like 'not Mr Gwadien, he's nice.'

Fuck you all, you're going to hell, but i've been saved.

 

[Scouse]

Is he trying to kill you. Yes. Kill him first.
Is he riding about in the back of a Toyota with an AK47 shouting about snackbars. Yes. Kill him.
Is he just trying to go about his daily business. Yes. Don't kill him.

So, basically, as said above, you'd never be able to spot them.

K.

 

[Scouse]

You know what. I'm beginning to like Shia LeBeouf more and more

 

[old.user4556]

So, basically, as said above, you'd never be able to spot them.

K.

Scouse is right, and it's where my opinions fall flat, in that it's the 'hidden' extremists and the sleeper cells that blend in with everyone else that we won't spot.

Unless you go full retard (Hitler for example), I'm not sure where to begin.

 

[Scouse]

I'm not sure where to begin.

As I posted above - to begin, it's about making sure we're the clearly superior moral force.

For example: We could start by rebalancing our economy so extreme poverty isn't an issue any more and ensuring that it doesn't work massively in favour of a tiny tiny minority. We could reward hard work for the majority, rather than just the few...