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[old.Tohtori]

1. American cops have to kill loads of people because their society is inherently more violent than ours, so its just self-defence, or 2. America isn't inherently more violent than Europe, but the cops are out of control lunatics. (Clue, its mostly 1, but not entirely).

And i said...

while there may be a grain of truth in there that the US as a whole is more violent.

Get it? Got it? Good. Move on.

 

[CorNokZ]

A grain?

 

[TdC]

In the book Hunt for the Red October, Tom Clancy writes of an old-school FBI officer who had never drawn his gun in 20 years of service, whereas the new-school officer had shot and killed a number of people while still a rookie.

 

[DaGaffer]

Quite. Never disputed that, no matter how those two try to twist what i said.

But as per usual saying "it's not a clear cut matter and some situations warrant deadly force" means "no it's not that bad, US is no different from europe"



Did you know that shooting someone to disable them might kill them? Shocking isn't it.

Or that some people might die from being tazed, while in most cases it's a non-lethal subdue method.

Of those 476 people, 102 had no weapon at all...

 

[old.Tohtori]

Yes 'cause clearly i said all of those shootings were fair and justified and the US police never do anything wrong. Come on

Just because i say something differentiating doesn't mean i disagree with everything the point may stand for. I've said it before, this forum needs to learn that things aren't them versus us and black/white all the time

 

[Lamp]

I bought a random bottle of rioja tonight. Tastes like lion piss.

Still going to drink it though. And rewatch last night's Game of Thrones. Such an awesome episode

 

[TdC]

Woo exotic. How about you describe it to those of us who've never tasted lion piss before?

 

[Lamp]

Very similar to tiger piss, but more gamey. Backnotes of zebra with a hint of wildflowers.

 

[Lamp]

 

[CorNokZ]

In Denmark we got a couple of ongoing cases atm with fake wine on expensive bottles. They're all numbered wrong, so I'd in doubt read up on your bottle online. Otherwise take our back to the store tomorrow

 

[Edmond]

Otherwise take our back to the store tomorrow

Or the zoo

 

[TdC]

I took Corn back once!

 

[Moriath]

Never taken anything back to the supermarket. Except my credit card .

 

[Scouse]

Its an animated gif...

Watched on my phone. But yeah. Of me. Tonight.


I'm more interested with @Gwadien receiving a disagree from toht about his post about american cops. I thought toht'd given up trolling...??

 

[Scouse]

I think it has a lot to do with what the police expect from criminals

If that was true then ethnic minoritiy criminals would be getting killed at the same rate as white criminals.

But they're not. They're getting killed at much higher rates*.






*which, for @old.Tohtori's benefit - means that blacks get killed more per crime...

 

[Moriath]

If that was true then ethnic minoritiy criminals would be getting killed at the same rate as white criminals.

But they're not. They're getting killed at much higher rates*.






*which, for @old.Tohtori's benefit - means that blacks get killed more per crime...

They are also more disadvantaged and more discriminated against. Have less income and more likely to be in gangs.

Because of the social infrastructure and the huge gap between rich and poor and the discrimination in america they are more likely to be involved in crime also. The majority of usa prisons are black majorities in them. And being black your more likely to get a longer scentence. Its a crock that america is not a racist country. Still many states its hard for coloured folks

 

[Scouse]

@Moriath - do you not understand what I meant by per crime?

Yep. I've been drinking - so it's not massively apparent. But none of what you say matters because of it.

If you meet a white criminal ten times, and you meet a black criminal ten times, and you shoot a white criminal twice, but a black criminal four times, and this bears out over a long period of time, then, *per crime*, you're a racist cunt.

American cops are racist cunts.



Edit: And @Moriath - I apologise. Properly apologise. Having read your post above, you're saying what I said.

But in my defence I did say I've been drinking

 

[old.Tohtori]

American cops are racist cunts.

Some. Some are. Just like some people on this forum are, doesn't make this forum racist.

This is just the sort of generalising i was originally against.

If you can show me 10 gun crimes by white folk, and 10 guncrimes by black folk, and then there's a huge difference in the outcome...we'll talk. Otherwise; context.

I thought you were done being an annoying arrogant c*nt.

 

[DaGaffer]

Some. Some are. Just like some people on this forum are, doesn't make this forum racist.

This is just the sort of generalising i was originally against.

If you can show me 10 gun crimes by white folk, and 10 guncrimes by black folk, and then there's a huge difference in the outcome...we'll talk. Otherwise; context.

I thought you were done being an annoying arrogant c*nt.

Read those stats on the Guardian, a black person being arrested in the U.S. Is FOUR TIMES more likely to be shot than a white person, even if they're unarmed (those 102 are overwhelmingly black)

Oh, and you're also more likely to get a harsher prison term (or jail time at all) if you're black. Although that stat also applies to the UK

 

[Scouse]

If you can show me 10 gun crimes by white folk, and 10 guncrimes by black folk, and then there's a huge difference in the outcome...we'll talk.

That's exactly the sort of thing that's been shown in this thread and you're just doing your standard "la la la, I think this so I'll ignore the evidence":

a black person being arrested in the U.S. Is FOUR TIMES more likely to be shot than a white person, even if they're unarmed (those 102 are overwhelmingly black)

Q.E.D.

No more need to talk - Gaff's right, you're wrong. Period.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Guardian isn't exactly a reliable source. Even still, the type of crime needs to be on display as well. Go through those 400+ crimes and come back to me with a list of what type of crime, race and the result, then we can talk.

 

[old.Tohtori]

That's exactly the sort of thing that's been shown in this thread

You saying something isn't proof. You should know that mister evidence cakebase.

Show me the proof and then we can see wehre exactly i was wrong. Bet you can't quote where i was wrong either, even if you can't show the proof

Funny how basing your posts on twisted comments works.

 

[Scouse]

Guardian isn't exactly a reliable source. Even still, the type of crime needs to be on display as well. Go through those 400+ crimes and come back to me with a list of what type of crime, race and the result, then we can talk.

The wrongess of this thinking has already been dealt with in this thread. Why should we go through the standard toto-twirl?

Edit:
But evidence...
in pictoral form:

 

[old.Tohtori]

Facepalm away, that's the only thing you're good at.Again, you saying something is wrong doesn't make it so. Proove it.

You said all american cops are racist. That's factually wrong.

I said you need to look at the case before judging if deadly force was necessary and that higher rate is probably due to a more violent society. Which is factually right.

Tadaa!

But see the problem is that you're arguing something i didn't say

EDIT: And a facepalm. Because you know you can't prove jacksh*t and know that you don't have to because the lemmings will flock and just go "ooh troll". Weren't you the one that was annoyed at people acting the same way every time you were explaining things? Hmm?

 

[old.Tohtori]

Nice picture, again, missing data. Why is it so hard to get? Arrest related death only shows that black people die more during arrests, but we need more data on it to see if it's justified.

We need to see stats on what type of crimes are being committed. If black people are committing more gun crimes, then that stat is justified. If all races are fappily breaking the law in the same way, then it's not.

All i'm saying, i'm denying nothing, i'm not saying anything contrary to what people are saying(even agreeing with them).

You lot are arguing things that i can't be wrong about when i haven't said them

Does nobody f*cking see this?

 

[Scouse]

Nice picture, again, missing data. Why is it so hard to get?

Click on the link clearly provided, spackfest. :facepalm:

 

[old.Tohtori]

Click on the link clearly provided, spackfest. :facepalm:

First off, green on green. Second, still has no stuff on what i talked about; in other words, type of crime.

You are not this stupid, go fix your hangover and come read it again.

Or maybe you are, maybe a few individuals here really are that rednecky.

 

[DaGaffer]

Nice picture, again, missing data. Why is it so hard to get? Arrest related death only shows that black people die more during arrests, but we need more data on it to see if it's justified.

We need to see stats on what type of crimes are being committed. If black people are committing more gun crimes, then that stat is justified. If all races are fappily breaking the law in the same way, then it's not.

All i'm saying, i'm denying nothing, i'm not saying anything contrary to what people are saying(even agreeing with them).

You lot are arguing things that i can't be wrong about when i haven't said them

Does nobody f*cking see this?

Fine, if you want to be an utter bellend about it, the stats are actually right there in the Guardian piece. 59 of the black suspects had a firearm out of the 136 killed (43%). 129 of the 238 white suspects had a firearm (54%). So whites were more likely to be armed, but get killed less per capita. OK?

 

[Scouse]

You are not this stupid, go fix your hangover and come read it again.

Meh. I'd started to compose an evidenced post involving a breakdown on type of crime, arrest rates, the rates of incarceration (six times more likely to go to jail for the same crime as a white man) etc. etc. etc.

But then I thought - you know what, Toht's right, I've a mild hangover - and this sort of information is *so easily available* and obtainable from reputable sources that he's clearly being too lazy to look for himself - so why not just tell him to fuck off and do just that?

So. Fuck off and look yourself. It's all out there and easy to find

 

[old.Tohtori]

Fine, if you want to be an utter bellend about it,

Yes i am But now that you lot are moving away from the bullsh*t, let me reply in kind;

If we really look at the stats(on guardian site mind you) then they become pretty similar race wise(small percentage changes don't make a huge outcry), and i don't care about "per capita" sh*t as it skews the truth. Just look at the hard facts such as these people did this, these that. Seems to me criminals are getting treated pretty much the same, regardless of race, outside racist cops which ofcourse exist in a partly racist world. Derp.

But to answer your original;

413 people out of 470 were shot. 230 had a firearm(+70 with a knife). So at a stretch there's still 113 deaths by gunshot that had no weapon involved. So yes, there's a problem, but it's still just 113. This is a large number for sure, but when put into context it doesn't make US cops triggerhappy/racist.

Should they use less guns? Ofcourse. Do they have a more violent nation? Most likely. Is it a "shocking thing"? F*ck no.

So if there's anything there you disagree with, feel free to ask/discuss it. Otherwise, off to get annoyed at hearthstone