Crap This takes the piss

[TdC]

I think its the fact that Firemen and police officers need to think that way which is sending our society down the drain. But I stand by what I said with the reality being what it is, after being ordered not to go in I do not blame the Fire-fighters for not going in. The commander who gave the order? I can see an argument for him answering some questions maybe.

Emergency Services are meant to have a bit of bravery to do their jobs, it's all about saving lives at the end of the day in risky situations. They should have gone in, regardless of what someone who wasn't present thought or said. End of.

thing is, I am 100% sure that every individual aid services person is brave as hell, not to mention being a friggin decent mensch for loving their fellow man enough to do a tough job in difficult conditions for meh pay. what gets on my hairy man tits is that they are forced to stand by in a situation where it's only decent and human to act, because getting harmed in said situation will destroy their lives / financial earning capabilities / whatever. I mean, wtf??? May as well stop doing anything then.

nb. I am not advocating unnecessary or irrational risk. tbh I would not go myself or ask someone to run in to a burning house or swim in to rapids if there was an overwhelming chance they'd perish, but if a decent plan was in place offering anything over a low chance of success I'd be up for it. I'm somewhat sure that aid services are painstakingly trained to recognize such situations and effect such plans. More power to them tbh, and imo they should be protected if they come to harm in the line of duty; they certainly should not be punished for it.

 

[Sar]

And FWIW, yes, I would've gone in if I'd been there. As I'm sure a lot of us would've done as well.

Fuck H&S and PC bullshit attitudes, especially when they cost lives in ridiculous situations such as this.

 

[Tom]

I love how everyone is suddenly an expert on firefighting.

These guys are experienced chaps. I'd rather believe that they know what they're doing and that they made the right call, than the rantings of a few Fleet Street wankers and a forum full of people gullible enough to fall for it.

 

[Sar]

Yeah, the fire in the duckpond was horrendous...

 

[Uncle Sick]

I love how everyone is suddenly an expert on firefighting.

These guys are experienced chaps. I'd rather believe that they know what they're doing and that they made the right call, than the rantings of a few Fleet Street wankers and a forum full of people gullible enough to fall for it.

I don't need to be an expert firefighter to notice how shallow that is. Do you?

Unless it's a different duck pond.
Or unless these two expert rescue workers are riding a dolphin.

 

[Bahumat]

Yeah but maybe the firemen were midgets...so it was deep for them!

 

[rynnor]

Not end of at all. If a fire fighter had gone in there pulled out a dead body they go the sack for going against orders who would be sticking up for him?

Everyone in the country I would think - can you imagine what the daily mail would make of that!

It would be a national campaign and rightly so.

 

[Scouse]

coroner

Registrar Dr Bret Lockyer said if he had been pulled out sooner there was a 'slim chance' he could have been saved.

 

[DaGaffer]

I don't need to be an expert firefighter to notice how shallow that is. Do you?

Unless it's a different duck pond.
Or unless these two expert rescue workers are riding a dolphin.

Or unless you don't actually know how deep it is until after you stand in it? This picture is the very definition of "hindsight".

 

[DaGaffer]

There was every chance he could've survived. Plenty of people who've been "drowned" for a lot longer than 10 mins have been rescued and survived without long term ill effects, so I don't see why this situation was any different.

That's a bold statement. I'm pretty sure you'd find the only examples of people who've survived more than 3-4 minutes submerged are specialists like free divers or have "drowned" in extreme cold.

 

[rynnor]

Or unless you don't actually know how deep it is until after you stand in it? This picture is the very definition of "hindsight".

Is it though? Its a pond in a town - its not a reservoir or the sea and surely they can edge out and see?

At my local swimming pool we have these amazing people who rescue people in the water !

 

[soze]

“The witnesses told me the body had been in the water for five or 10 minutes. There were no obvious signs of life so from that I made an assessment it was a body retrieval and not a rescue.
“The officers were trained to go into ankle deep water, which is level one, so we waited for level two officers, who can go into chest high. One of the police officers told me he would like to go in the water and I advised him in the strongest terms not to.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...n-3ft-deep-lake-as-man-floated-face-down.html

 

[Scouse]

Or unless you don't actually know how deep it is until after you stand in it? This picture is the very definition of "hindsight".

You know what Gaff. If you stand in and you're out of your depth there's this activity that you can do...erm, what is it called again?

Stuff

I read that and think "jobsworth arsehole".

 

[soze]

I read that and think "jobsworth arsehole".

I can see being pissed off with that guy. I can't get my head around being pissed off at the people ordered not to go in though.

 

[old.Tohtori]

And FWIW, yes, I would've gone in if I'd been there. As I'm sure a lot of us would've done as well.

Fuck H&S and PC bullshit attitudes, especially when they cost lives in ridiculous situations such as this.

Maybe you would have, but in this case no one did. That only proves that no one gave a -real- f*ck about things and now rants at anything they can see as a plausible "problem".

 

[Tom]

Or unless you don't actually know how deep it is until after you stand in it? This picture is the very definition of "hindsight".

What's on the bottom of that pond? Maybe there's a hole/grate somewhere large enough to trap your foot in so you fall over, break your ankle and can't stand up. Fancy walking across that? Or what if there's something in there to cut your leg wide open?

They made a quick risk assessment, which was this - the bloke was almost certainly dead, the pond was a complete unknown, and why risk the life of a valuable emergency services worker to get a corpse?

 

[Scouse]

....why risk the life...

Lol! No life was at risk apart from the epileptic guy's in the pond - that the doctor said had a slim chance of being saved.

It's a fucking duck pond. Firemen can swim if it's too deep. Which it wasn't (but they didn't bother to find that out until after his chance of survival had gone).

"Oooh! I might cut my leg". Oh noes! Disaster!

 

[Tom]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/3697006.stm

Went into a lake, line snagged on a branch, died. Firemen can swim, remember.

 

[Tom]

http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/174/174036_man_drowns_in_canal_horror.html

Another similar incident. Police criticised for not jumping into the Manchester Ship Canal (a filthy, polluted waterway). Concerned onlookers stood watching, doing fuck all.

 

[Scouse]

Up front, I've already said onlookers are twats who should do it themsleves. I'd have been in in a flash myself.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/3697006.stm

He drowned after his safety line ..

Lol! Death by Health and Safety

As for your second story:

Another similar incident. Police criticised for not jumping into the Manchester Ship Canal (a filthy, polluted waterway). Concerned onlookers stood watching, doing fuck all.

The boy fell into the water and he was thrashing around for two minutes and the police officers didn't really do anything. The man either couldn't swim or was a very weak swimmer. The police officer could just have leaned on to one of the chains and grabbed him because he was less than a metre away from the bank, but they didn't go into the water until they were joined by another two.

...

Neither of the above excuses emergency services personnel from trying. They can always back out if it looks dangerous.

 

[Tom]

...because obviously firemen are just big scardy-cats when it comes to risking their lives. I mean, anyone can walk into a burning building, but it takes a special kind of hero to wade into water.

 

[megadave]

where is the risk in a 3 ft pond? how did the guy drown in the first place?

 

[old.Tohtori]

where is the risk in a 3 ft pond? how did the guy drown in the first place?

Think i saw epileptic somewhere. Has to be some kind of medical thing. Bit interesting how he waded into the pond, had a seizure and no one blinked an eye at it though.

 

[Moriath]

think he had epileptic fit at the side of the water while feeding ducks and fell in

 

[Moriath]

Coroner David Horsley recorded a verdict of accidental death.
Mr Horsley told the court: "In this case, the delay in arrival of the specialist team has not been a significant factor in this tragic death."

Also as to the health and safety thing

A Hampshire Fire and Rescue spokesman said: "Let us be clear, the decisions taken at the Walpole Lake incident had nothing to do with health and safety or the depth of the water.
"On arrival at the scene, the officer and crews saw a body face down and submerged in the water, who we now know to be Mr Simon Burgess.
"That person was unresponsive and showing no visible signs of life. Based on this assessment, they prepared for the arrival of one of the service's specialist water rescue unit to undertake a dignified retrieval of the individual from the water.
"Our officers and staff clearly stated, that if they saw any signs of life and the individual could be saved, they would have gone in to the water and followed rescue procedures."

Both from the bbc website

 

[old.Tohtori]

Are you saying you're trusting BBC over the sun? Preposterous.

 

[DaGaffer]

where is the risk in a 3 ft pond? how did the guy drown in the first place?

Horrificly, a little toddler drowned in a puddle here yesterday. You can drown in inches of water rather than feet sadly, especially as in this case the guy was probably unconcious before he even hit the water.

 

[TdC]

Or unless you don't actually know how deep it is until after you stand in it? This picture is the very definition of "hindsight".

without commenting on the other stuff, I'm semi sure that a public duck pond isn't going to be 10's or 100's of feet deep. It's a pond after all.

 

[Moriath]

Are you saying you're trusting BBC over the sun? Preposterous.

yup hehe thats just me tho

 

[rynnor]

The logical extension of the should we risk ourselves because hes probably dead scenario is that firemen dont bother to enter a house which is burning because the people inside are probably dead.