This server needs more Infils

[Pin]

Originally posted by elerand
What about before insta mez? There were too many infs then

Mids have had insta mezz and stun for a long time. Not just talking about hibbies here.

Originally posted by elerand
Hibs were fed up of being frequently beaten to the mez by albs and we didn't turn into a realm of NS did we!
Guess it takes enough people playing a support class to broadcast how fun it is, reckon all you albs wanna do is hurt people and not support the realm as a whole

Probably something to do with nightshades not being the best class (or top 3) to play in Hibernia. Hib has mostly become a zerg of enchanters and eldritch, backed up by bards. Even so, there are still plenty of nightshades being rolled.

Originally posted by elerand
Played on alb/pryd yesterday and it's shocking, xping can be really dull, everyone plays the same class, lots of pallys, infs, minsts and armsman but not much else.
Would be funny if people discriminated against infs as much as NS, would have half a realm doing nothing then

Think albs are self-gimping the realm by doing so, don't whine when you can't find other classes and stop looking for da uber class to play, it's quite dull I think

Albion certainly does discriminate against Infiltrators as much as Hib does against NS.

But I've played Albion pretty much all the time, and the only classes that have ever been played to any great degree has been Cleric, Armsman, Paladin and Wizard. Scouts were played a lot for a while, but no longer with all the nerfs. People only hear vocal crying about how Clerics have been destroyed (yeah right) so don't roll those as much. Now it's largely Infiltrators being rolled by everyone. And yes, it's sad. The Infiltrator is not a class that is supposed to outnumber everyone else, they are supposed to be rogues, outcasts, different from the norm.

Anyways, go roll a Friar instead, they've much more fun for the most part

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by Pin

With no instas, low hit points, no armour the Sorcerer ALWAYS has to be ready for the first strike.

That and the moment anything goes wrong (a purge here, a resist there) you've got everyone's eyes pointing right at you (much like after mezzing tanglers ) and you're going to be biting the dust.

Sorcs can't play like healers or bards, running in to mezz the enemy group before they get a chance won't work anywhere nearly as well for the sorc (1, they have to stop moving to cast. 2, they have to take 1-2 seconds to cast the mezz. 3, if they've mezzed a bard and that bard has purge+insta up, the sorc is mezzed )

Apathy was giving some good ideas on how to play a sorc - play it as a support char... CC things that come towards you... let your tanks take the aoe mezz and use demezz on them...

No idea how well it works but sounds interesting...

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by elerand
I've fought 3 infs before and kicked some serious arse, be even better when (read IF) they fix the snare on snow shower, run away will ya?

Snare on all our styles is broken aswell.... But Infs carry snare poisons which is stronger than the snare on styles anyway.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Fingoniel


by not being seen

Aaaah, that's how you get to be a Forum Deity... Say exactly the same things that have already been said and answered in the thread.

 

[Apathy]

The bad thing about "PL MAH INF PLZ" is that they don't go to Keltoi and hunt. This means they miss out on THE best drop in the game for infiltrators.

http://retrocrush.net/need.jpg

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[Ensceptifica]

Originally posted by Pin
The real problem that I see with the Sorcerer is that it is completely unforgiving. You need to be 100% alert 100% of the time and have perfect reaction times in order to perform your duties. There are VERY few people who can keep this up for any length of time. I don't know that there is a worse class with regards to this. In the right hands, the Sorcerer can be powerful, but most people can't play it in the right style (certainly not without going completely mental).

..

With no instas, low hit points, no armour the Sorcerer ALWAYS has to be ready for the first strike.

Sounds like the same problem with bards ( ; A lot of people I know that play(ed) bards got very annoyed being told what to do/play in xp groups. On top of that, a lot found RvR very disturbing as Hib RvR groups basically expect the bard to be perfect (speed/mana twist, end/mana twist, lead the group, mez in time, etc). I hear a lot of Hibs say things like "Hibernia has only 4 or 5 good bards", which is a good indication of the expectations people have of a bard. This pressure together with the fact that the bard is usually the first target for enemies has made a lot of bards decide to stop playing RvR.

 

[Apathy]

Oh...and about the sorcerer thing...you REALLY need a decent group of smart people. You can be the best sorcerer in the world but it means squat if you are in a rubbish group.

Mmm...I love talking about sorcerers.

Proof in case - 4 casters, 1 cleric, 1 inf, 1 minstrel, me as sorcerer. Made 40k RPs in a matter of hours in Odins in fun GvG combat. Often 2Gv1G. This was with First Cohort though, who actually heal, don't break mezz, go for the important targets...

And in Emain, I've been in so many "perfect" groups. This included one just recently with one of the higher-ranked sorcerers in the realm ("Woo!", I thought. "I get to nuke!"), two clerics, a minstrel and some tanks.

The result of this was constant deaths, no heals AT ALL, no group cohesion...urgh. I think that RPs just show how much time you spend in game, not how successful you are.

~cries~

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[Ensceptifica]

Originally posted by Pin
Hib has mostly become a zerg of enchanters and eldritch, backed up by bards. Even so, there are still plenty of nightshades being rolled.

Not entirely, but there is some truth in that. Let me use this for another too long post ( ;

The changes I've seen in Hibernia since I started:

- 90% now considers void to be crap. When I started, every eld wanted void because the bolts had uber damage and the aoe was nice.
- 90% of the eldritches has switched to mana for the pbaoe and the dd+snare. The pbaoe is the most popular fast xp. A lot of people are making mana chanters for the same reason.
- Nobody used to know what a Mentalist could do, but more people are starting to see that apart from versatile, mentalist can be extremely powerful too (dot, mez, pet for instance).
- Wardens have become more popular. This has made nightshades as aggro holders in pbaoe groups less of a problem, because 99% of the wardens still takes nurture to 45 for 6 sec bubble (I know of only 1 who stayed at the 8 sec bubble).
- Nightshades are quite popular since Thidranki opened, and I've had them tanking in groups a lot more often (but I think I invite them more often than others).
- Rangers are a lot less popular than nightshades. Think it has to do with some nerf, dunno exactly about that.
- Druids have never been very popular, although I think they're one of the most powerful Hib classes (they can solo just about everyone and everything).
- A lot of tanks have a bard alt, simply because they're fed up with waiting for bards in RvR. But a lot of bards have also gotten fed up with being a bard and rolled a big phat tank to take revenge for all the times they were the first to be taken out ( ;
- Blademasters and Champions have become more popular, while I see fewer and fewer heroes.

 

[tazzke]

At least the Bard and the Healer certainly have a chance to survive a battle (Healer being too hard for a support class even)...

Just try to keep a sorc alive when Druid casts a group purge..or a Hero isn't mezzed straight away (being a cleric...i know how hard it must be for a sorc to keep playing the game...about any class can kill you within 5 sec...i can chainheal him the whole battle...but vs a Hero chasing him..he will die anyway).

Wiz/theurg etc can root with a cq and get away if lucky...but sorc....mezz landed...purge...game over for the sorc most of the times...if only there were some more stun-pets like in Midgard Frontier

To all Alb sorcers out there...

Hope Mythic gets around one day to improve the sorcerer class, making them a bit harder to kill in RvR battles, or soon Albion will have only a mincer and crappy cleric mezz

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by tazzke
Wiz/theurg etc can root with a cq and get away if lucky...but sorc....mezz landed...purge...game over for the sorc most of the times...if only there were some more stun-pets like in Midgard Frontier

Sorcerers have (single target and AE) root aswell in Body. Most spec for at least 49 sec AE root.

Edit: LvL 23 Sorcerer - tazzewazzewoo ---- and you didn't know this?

As said, the problem is that the other CCs have instas, which means you can hit the button 1 second later and get yours in first, which means you don't have to come to a halt (hitting /face first is the best way to accomplish this), and both other CCs have higher hits and better armour.

 

[Apathy]

Second AoE root is at 39 Body.

The STUPID thing is that the first body specline root is single target. Why have two almost IDENTICAL (Level 20 Spec root 5 seconds longer than the base lvl 19 root.) is 6spells in a base and a specline? What other classes suffer from this?

Not to mention the missing AF buff...

The debuffed pets when charmed...

Insane resists. A blue-con bard resisted two mezzes and one root and killed me. (My DoT got him later though. Mwahaha. Shame it was an RA that cost me 14 points. How many other classes need to spend 14 points to get an RA that will give them a tiny bit of a better chance against a lvl 42 enemy?)

Instants are such a pain and require exactly NO SKILL to deploy. They should be reduced to either PBAoE or 500 range or something.

Urgh. I'm turning every thread into a sorcerer discussion. :/

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[Pin]

Originally posted by ApathyEndymion
Second AoE root is at 39 Body.

First one at 30 Body is the 49 second. Second (at 39) is 1 minute... As I said, almost all spec over 30 Body.

 

[Apathy]

I thought you meant "second level 49 root". Doh.

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[tazzke]

My sorc alt is mind specced....and since it's a FUNCHAR i play it for fun = send my pet on a mob...and mezz if others are inc..debuff a little..and sit on my lazy ass and let the pet do the work

rarely use any kind of root (might be the reason i die so much too hehe)

Played 2 nights RvR in BG1....when i found out this char is pure fun for me outside RvR...not in it

 

[old.LandShark]

Pin, you usually make useful well-informed posts, but I think atm you really are BSing....
OK, so an inf isn't immune to be mezzed/stunned etc. Which do you think gets mezzed->DD'd more, his merc or his infiltrator? I know that when I'm grouped with my guild, nearly all my deaths come from being CC'd and then nuked to dust. When I'm stealthed, absolutely none of my deaths come from that, I die to assassins or by a zerg changing across me while i'm not in stealth...
You can't have a go at Fingoniel for saying that stealth is a good defence against mezz/etc. Assassin stealth is the single best defensive skill in the game....

btw on those 3 mercs vs 3 infils...

Merc:
Grouped for 100% of his RvRing
Grouped for 100% of his RvRing
Grouped yadda yadda

Infil:
Solo'd at least to R6
Solo i expect not sure.
Solo'd at least since R5 and a lot of the time before that. Cooperating with guild grps but still ungrouped and scouting/killing solo

Oooh... Perhaps the mercs all COULD run around emain solo, but choose not to? Or perhaps the infs can walk right through AMG-blocking zergs, whereas the mercs get mezzed and nuked?

 

[Pin]

okay, stealth is a great defense against mezz, etc.

I can sit all day in the middle of a field and not get mezzed because nothing knows I'm there.

I can wait for something to come along on it's own. Okay, it's dead, wait more, etc. A merc or much else couldn't have done this.

I still maintain that most of my deaths come from me being mezzed/stunned, etc (okay, lots of the mezzes are due to AE flak and not directly targetted at myself) and then being bashed/nuked to death. (Well, maybe more come from a FG charging over me while I'm engaged in/just finished a fight).


Now, I have no idea what you were trying to say about all 3 mercs being grouped in RvR and all 3 infs being solo most of the time in RvR? What does that have to do with any point that was made earlier? Different classes, one is more suited to a solo environment. So?

I could then add that the mercs then have the backup of a group to heal him while he's being nuked, or to kill/immobilise his attackers, while the inf just sucks it up and dies, releases and ports again.

You could say that the merc also has to rely on his group in order to be effective, and that the infiltrator can only really blame himself for his encounters and if he dies it's his fault alone.

And any good wall-camping zerg chain AEs on the door to prevent stealthers sneaking through.




Final point is, I wasn't having a go at Fingoniel for saying stealth is a good defense against mezz, I was having a go at him for saying exactly the same thing that had been said previously in the thread and had been answered (twice) previously in the thread.



Edit: Yeah, I'm feeling kind of argumentative today

 

[Olgark]

The infil class is the easiest one to play in Albion. That is why people play it with the 2.5 spec points per level they can max out weapons , CB, stealth and have envenom at a decent level.


In patch 1.56 the assassin population will drop imensly due to the lack of Ignore Pain and dodger being 50% viable to them. You will see however a sharp rise in Hunters from Midgard as the patch love they get in 1.56 will see their damage output in melee actualy mean something in RvR.

The people who play a infil with Ignore Pain and a buff bot are the ones that are crap at RvR. And See Hidden is just plain cheating.

 

[old.BJ|Bored]

Infs are so popular as their the only class u can play solo.

Thats how i see it, i made a minst as i wanted the speed tbh, fed up of being in emain solo and unable to keep up with anyone, and also as it offered me the chance to go solo with stealth when i wanted to. I like solo play as it doesnt require me to rely on complete strangers etc and if it screws up its only me to blame,

+ when i screw up only i know about it ;E not a group of watchers.

Thats why i want an inf alt ;p

 

[Vireb]

infils popular and i dont see why they die tbh infil has stealth and usually very high specced they get to CHOOSE there targets. im running through emnain solo i see a grp i dont get to choose to attack 9/10 im insta mezzed and attacked stealth prevents this.

scenario1:im runing solo a champ is running at me , ask any friar no way in hell can i kill a champ (i dont have purge) but hey what can i do im snared debuffed and dude with big fat hammer running at me boom im dead.
Scenario 2: infil is sat in the buetifull fields of emain stealthed hapily and a big spearo (insert class infil has no chance 1vs1) runs past infil sits in stealth and listens to the birds twitter and watches the tumbleweed blow across emain bowl.spearo roams past infil knowing nothing of his presence.
only reason infil dies is biting of more than they can chew or losing stealth . And that sir is why people role them

 

[bishibosh]

yep, stealth is prolly the best ability of any class, its just so uselful, even tho it doesnt realy work for archers anymore its still a life saver

 

[Azzaro-Ewolyn]

Here is a guide to infiltraters, so they can be better, I just need some practis my self, but hope I will be better then I hit the 50, and I have not been power leveled, okay I got a little help from 42 to 46

http://cromagnet.8k.com/Inf.html

-------------------------------------------------
Ewolyn 48,9 Infiltrator
Azzaro 47 Cleric

 

[Novamir]

Originally posted by ApathyEndymion
(My DoT got him later though. Mwahaha. Shame it was an RA that cost me 14 points. How many other classes need to spend 14 points to get an RA that will give them a tiny bit of a better chance against a lvl 42 enemy?)

bard?

it's at least refreshing to see an alb which doesn't moan 24/7 about it's impossible to mez etcetcetc when all it needs is one sorcerer and a good group for backup (and SoS) and anything can happen.

 

[Apathy]

Yeah, it was a bard. :/ My own fault, really. I should know better than to fight a twinked freak solo without a pet.

http://retrocrush.net/pffft.jpg

It's hard to resist the urge to whine but I genuinely don't think the sorcerer is underpowered; it's the main CC classes of other realms that are overpowered.

Comparing a sorcerer with a bard or a healer is completely invalid because they are utterly superior in terms of spells available. Sorcerers are more like...urgh I can hardly say it...mentalists.

Shitty mentalists, that is. More versatile CC options but without the heals and damage capability.

It wouldn't bother me at all, as a sorcerer, if minstrels or clerics were made Albion's primary CC class. Sorcerers would be worse off but at least the realm as a whole would benefit.

"Nice mezzing, minstrel!"

"Thanks. I have only specced 10 into instruments so I only have the 1500 range, instacast, 5000 radius, 10min mezz."

"Woah! You better put more into instruments. You'll never beat a bard with that spec."

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[Tiptap]

Originally posted by Ensceptifica


- Blademasters and Champions have become more popular, while I see fewer and fewer heroes.

I blame those Alliance of Power/Black Dragon BM's for letting the cat out of the bag...BM'S ARE GIMPS..ITS TRUE..IGNORE THEM AND HIT THE HERO...

 

[dakeyras]

I think all 3 realms suffer to some degree from class bias and perception. Alot of players I have met whilst playing this game will readily tell you that 'class A is uber' while 'class B is gimp', but if pushed for some reasoning behind their statements they would struggle.

One of the best ways to gain a fair assessment of a classes abilities is to play against it. Rolling a skald on Mid/Pryd refreshed my opinions of which classes I respected/feared/despised etc from Albion...and the 2 on the top of my list are Matter Cabalists and Saracen thrust-spec Mercs. Odd that alot of players have described these as the 2 'gimps' of Albion.

Some classes are better than others but more important is the person behind the keyboard. A skillful player can make a gimp shine whilst a 'see enemy..f8.../stick...spam style' type player can make a great class suck.

I really do believe that players would be much happier if they played and mastered the character they want to play rather than switching to what they perceive the most powerful class to be.

 

[brommix]

The person behind the keyboard means the most, I totally agree there, but if people want to get another input in which classes are viewed better than others, then why not turn to the new pvp server and see how many alb classes are in the high lvl guilds there ? Like Warlegends Nolbypride or Avalanche, I know that Avalanche for excample got 3 alb charecters out of about 100 charecters in guild! now that is maybe overdoing but to me it paints a clear picture.

 

[Treniel-]

its a joke the amount of infils we got these days nearly every lvl 50 rerolls a stealth char and 90% of them are infils.

 

[Jiggs]

the only alb classes i have seen on PvP are Cabalist (lots) Infils (not as many as you might think) and Friars (yay!)

i suspect there are a few clerics and minstrels out there as well somewhere

 

[old.chesnor]

Originally posted by dakeyras
Some classes are better than others but more important is the person behind the keyboard. A skillful player can make a gimp shine whilst a 'see enemy..f8.../stick...spam style' type player can make a great class suck.

I really do believe that players would be much happier if they played and mastered the character they want to play rather than switching to what they perceive the most powerful class to be.

Wrong, and naive. Its the other way round. A gimp with overpowered class > a skillfull player with gimp class.

You fail to understand the basic concept of gaming if you think people should pick classes they 'enjoy' playing over classes that are better than the others. Human nature doesn't work like that.

 

[dakeyras]

Originally posted by old.chesnor


Wrong, and naive. Its the other way round. A gimp with overpowered class > a skillfull player with gimp class.

Hmmm...I take it you don't know many skillful players then?

And sorry, I do think players should pick classes they enjoy and that is far from naive. All the best players do...it is the whining unskilled failures that don't.