This.. OMG Warlocks are nerfed, unplayable now !

[swords]

Yes but the few there are needs to heal our poor monsterress dotted butts!

/Charmangle

You could..you know...roll healers? rather than whorecocks
Come see the light, being support is fun! plus as a Healer you get more spells than you can shake a very large stick at

 

[Celestino]

Warlocks are where they belong, in the crapbag, problem is Mid need a replacement class, that is good at aeinterrupting, but without beeing able to instakill everything that enters its sights.

That's what iam going on about
And iam sorry if you didn't make myself clear, but the term "I Win Button" was not invented for Warlocks and is usually not limited to massive instant damage. I was referring to stuff like AE stun (remember the time when there was no immunity timer ?), Instant CC spells that others did not have at that time, bonedancer 4 sec instalifedrain + healpets fucking up solo gameplay, and all the other toys that got nerfed over time in the other realms.
You stated, that midgard would need a replacement when it comes to ae rupts, but midgard already has powerful ae rupt tools. If you want to top those already existing tools, you would create a new I win button (remember, iam not talking about instant damage)

And don't forget there are 3 realms, if one realm has an ability that gives them an advantage over the other 2 realms in certain situations, you don't improve one of the other 2 realms, you don't improve both other realms unless u have to feed a bunch of whining kids some more toys like seen in WoW, but you nerf the one ability that creates that imbalance.

I hope this removes any misunderstandings

 

[charmangle]

Well...

And don't forget there are 3 realms, if one realm has an ability that gives them an advantage over the other 2 realms in certain situations, you don't improve one of the other 2 realms, you don't improve both other realms unless u have to feed a bunch of whining kids some more toys like seen in WoW, but you nerf the one ability that creates that imbalance.

Well albs have MonsterRess, Hibs have Shrooms Mids need something to compare with those 2 crowed handlers.

/Charmangle

 

[Sarumann]

Me to

I just want a Pac healer on main comp with a suppresion SM on stick
mezz stun pbaoe
But u everyone would still call it easymoder :=)

 

[Azathrim]

I just want a Pac healer on main comp with a suppresion SM on stick
mezz stun pbaoe
But u everyone would still call it easymoder :=)

How many bomb groups do you see run around these days? Ever guessed at why?

 

[atos]

If banelrod does something it is fucking pbaoe casters over. Persoanlly I'd like a merge of supp and dark sm lines. =( Speccing supp barely has any use in todays RvR.

 

[Maeloch]

How many bomb groups do you see run around these days? Ever guessed at why?

I think you could make okay bombing grp, just need to go aoe setup instead instead of pbaoe. couple of healers, bd and runies, bard/warden/drood and 5 st mentas, sorc, reaver and bunch of firewizzies. All these caster zergs drop like flies with a bit of stacked aoe. Bit hard to bomb albs, with 50% of zerg having bolt mez tho.

 

[Celestino]

Well albs have MonsterRess, Hibs have Shrooms Mids need something to compare with those 2 crowed handlers.

/Charmangle

By that logic hib would need a spec lifedrain... the realms are different, shrooms can't be moved and have limited range and you need a massive amount of shrooms to be as effective as a real focusing interrupter coz shrooms pick their targets randomly, monsterrezz affects only pb:ae radius, midgard has range ae rupts with healer beeing able to use 3 forms of cc and spamable amnesia and close combat instarupts with pb:ae disease from shaman
Its not like midgard has no means of handling zergs, they might not be as good as an immune pulsing pb:ae rupter in ur middle but they are good enough and ae stun was and is a fucking powerfull thing if used right

 

[Andrilyn]

Well albs have MonsterRess, Hibs have Shrooms Mids need something to compare with those 2 crowed handlers.

/Charmangle

I hope you know both those abilities (shrooms and MR) can be countered best by one class: Warlocks.
MR: insta snare+dd = insta killed.
Shrooms: Skald with SoS+Warlock, SoS in and insta PBAE+DD, 1 PBAE should clear the entire stack anyway.

That most people that play(ed) WLs don't have a clue on how to play them is a different matter, personally on my WL I have NEVER had problems with MR or Shrooms, heck MR is fun as that gives you some more free RPs (reduced but still).
Try and think outside the box instead of DD+LT DD+LT DD+LT DD+LT.

 

[Celestino]

he was referring to just that m8, and argueing that midgard now needs a replacement that can do the same coz warlocks are so nerfed ... ignoring the fact that there might be other options, mostly involving 2 or 3 button presses than just 1, already present...

 

[eggy]

God who cares; if everything was perfectly balanced the game would be as boring as sin.

Play something like Unreal Tournament if you want everything to be the same. Personally I quite like facing warlocks; feels good when you kill em!

 

[charmangle]

Yes they do so whats your point ?

By that logic hib would need a spec lifedrain...

Well yes, they should get one or more to the point the 3 that already exsist should have their damage nerfed to match the Animist baseline. (The difference here is that I can admit when another realm can be in need of something or my own realm has something thats to good (like dark sm drainlife) and dont just argue from my own perspective (well I do since I can play any of the 3 realms I want but thats another point)

The realms are different, but you need to atleast give the realms the same catagory of utility...
How would you like it if only Midgard and Hibernia had stealthers for example ?

Having interrupts on things that are not vital to the survival of the others that either are pets that doesnt matter if they die or chosen suiciders that arent vital to the zerg, does not compare to having our healers pop thier face out only to get instakilled by 2000 nukes.

Mids need a class that can do massive interrupts but not die meanwhile or be a pet that doesnt matter if it dies...

Even without the argument that you cant risk your seers by sending them into the enemie zerg:

With banelords ae stun just isnt usable any more. Youll get your zerg ripped to pieces if you try and and ae stun another zerg in close quarters. All the tanks only get stunned for 0.5 seconds and then they suicide runs into the Mid zerg spamming tendrils (well banelord ones anyway)...thats BAD...
Stun is only good if you within the 0.5-9 seconds can kill those stunned. And with MonsterRess/shrooms/MLs/New RAs and the necessity for coordination, its just not doable any more.

Id gladly change aestun for a Major league petspammer like Animist for Mids.
But since Mythic has already declared that Mid will never get a petspammer, thats not likely to happen...

/Charmangle

 

[Nul]

I have a rr6L4+ WL and my experience is that COMPARED to other realms
casters we are not OP atm. Pretty good healers tho.

 

[Nul]

God who cares; if everything was perfectly balanced the game would be as boring as sin.

Amen on that

 

[hanza]

As a side note: I do think mid would to alot better in siege/zerg fights if they just had alot more playing Shamans. Its probably the best class in Mid atm for freezing up a zerg. Problem is that they tend to die to fast and are just no fun playing 99% of the time.

/Charmangle

SO TRUE, i am myself playing a shaman and i must say that my mates don't let me play anything else as we have very few running around, and their utility is so high i couldnt imagine a set up group excluding shamy.

probleme tho is that u stand no chance VS caster group wich make your life a bit tuff nowadays ... but i m not complaining, i lile the challange.

two things i ll disagree with are :

Not fun to play ? wtf the most enjoyable class to play mids are given!! ofc they have nothing to do with the one button pressing character, and require some time before u can actually master all their abilities. it is not DA easy mode character u can PL and get out on rvr with or u ll get own by anything.

if they are not fun 99% of the time then i wonder what you are doing cause i can't remember of a single fight where i found myself wanking while the group is fighting .... so many things to fire that you usually find yourself OOP or out of ennemy before u could lunch all your rockets

secondly : easy to kill ? well i guess it depands most of the time i find myself a pain to kill, (almost 2.5k Hits) + RR5 + EP +AoM3 ....and other stuff if u run with a skald and AM3 or any decent healer u are a pain to kill


to be back on the topic, i dont see why people are still whining about locks.. they are probably the most silly class in mid on that we all agree; i run in group most of the time but VERY seldom we have locks on it why ?

DPS is the key of the game !! 2400 dmg in 3 sec ?? omg and what about the next 3 sec ? consider the whole domage during the fight time and you will find warlocks DPS driopping VERY fast when they don't have balls anymore while a sorc (or any other caster) will be able to keep the domage up untill they are oop (this means what ? 10,15 sec)

now please redo your calculation on a 10 sec fight andtell me who deals the biggest amount of dmg ! i doubt the warlock would win tbh.

one more thing is Mid got one class less than other two realms, hope mythic dont come up with something as silly as the lock cause if they are not fun for albs /hibs to face belive that they are not nice to have in your realm eaither:

peaple playing lock rather solo, and there is nothing more annoying in tower fight than 10 useless lock running solo trying to defand and yealling for buff and rez anytime they got an arrow stuck on their butt

i strongly belive that this class has increase the amount of people soloing and thus weaken the realm overall. u don't stand a chance vs a zerg when u are solo+solo+solo the only hope u have is getting some RPs before eating the dust. would be more constructive to fight FG+FG+FG woudlnt it ?

 

[Puppet]

I have a rr6L4+ WL and my experience is that COMPARED to other realms
casters we are not OP atm. Pretty good healers tho.

Your WL is your highest RR character. One could argue that's a sign of overpoweredness... none of your other chars are RR6+ yet your WL is RR6L4+

 

[eggy]

Your WL is your highest RR character. One could argue that's a sign of overpoweredness... none of your other chars are RR6+ yet your WL is RR6L4+

Maybe he likes playing it...

 

[charmangle]

I hope you know both those abilities (shrooms and MR) can be countered best by one class: Warlocks.

Yes I know, and I also know that you havent been in one single siege fight solo if you are saying that you havent had any problems with MR on your warlock, or you were actually asleep dreaming the whole time.

Ive probably only answered this exact comment about 20 times already...Turning MonsterRess doesnt help, because the dots will still hit all in LoS weather you turn him or not...and after that a new MonsterRess arrives within seconds to hit the rest: And about 30% of your zerg dies to the dot. And after that its just a matter of time until you are overrun.

And apparently you have only read about 1 single line of the argument so far...since you seem to think that that had anything to do with anything.

Its so fun to see people here using the argument: Well, no one of all the people in the world playing the other realms ever knows how to use their chars. I am soooooo much better so if only I were to be there, there wouldnt be any problems at all!

Try and think outside the box and assume that the opposite side actually knows atleast as much as you. It makes for alot more interresting discussions.

he was referring to just that m8, and argueing that midgard now needs a replacement that can do the same coz warlocks are so nerfed ... ignoring the fact that there might be other options,

No I am not ignoring the fact that there might be other options. Ofc there are other options, there are different options when you are fighting with stones vs nukes too, but that hardly makes it a fair match now does it?

mostly involving 2 or 3 button presses than just 1, already present...

Damn, damn and lol. You really have no clue do you ?
You play the easy mode realm with 1 button killers on rediculous range and you try explaining to others how to play ?

But you know what...its easy, just come to mid and show me. Ill group with ya and well go to a tower/keep and you can show me how you wtfpwn the Albs and their MonsterRess mate...I dare ya!
If you asked me the same I could do it for you (well not wtfpwn but reroll to prove a point even though Im not the one going on about how badly the other realms know their own chars.
Would be so nice to see atleast one of the (few) Alb players here that keep telling Mids how bad they are at utilizing their powers just...show us...just once...theres gotto be atleast one Alb that can take the Reroll step out of easymode and show us how to do it.

/Charmangle

ps.

Your WL is your highest RR character. One could argue that's a sign of overpoweredness... none of your other chars are RR6+ yet your WL is RR6L4+

Isnt that like saying to a cleric mainplayer that his char is overpowered because thats his highest rr char ?
ds.

 

[Darzil]

i strongly belive that this class has increase the amount of people soloing and thus weaken the realm overall. u don't stand a chance vs a zerg when u are solo+solo+solo the only hope u have is getting some RPs before eating the dust. would be more constructive to fight FG+FG+FG woudlnt it ?

A good observation. I think Albion has the same problem with many of it's sorcerors.

Darzil

 

[Tuthmes]

Maybe he likes playing it...

And why would that be?

 

[Celestino]

@ Charmangle:
Lets not lose focus, we're talking about warlocks, not realm balance in general.
You say you need a replacement for warlocks in siegefights. I say, you already have all the tools on already very strong classes. You want some ae rupts ? Take a healer or a shaman.. you want instantrupts ? go ask a bonedancer and u get survivability with it...
And you want instakills and abilities that turn around a fight in a second ? Go play with yourself...
What exactly does a warlock do those 3 classes can't do as well over longer periods of time while having additional abilities that help the overall ?
Where does the gap in siege fights appear ? is it really a missing class feature or just the fact that u now, as you don't have masses of I Win classes anymore, actually need to combine some of your abilities with the right timing to win ?

@ hanza:
I wonder, noone said warlocks would have insane dps over time, and it was said earlier that other casters can rival the dps of a warlock that drop after the first few seconds .

Still redoing my calculation on a 10 sec fight, the warlock still wins, coz actually the other one doesn't do any damage at all if he is dead. And with all the instant and uninterruptables he will be dead before he can do anything more than a quickcast.
I guess some very clever man will now come up with the fact that after that kill the warlock will be easy prey for any second attacker there might be and once again, noone will doubt that after the nerfs, but having only low chance of winning 2on1 is the way it should be.

 

[Tuppe]

Eh...I have no idea what you are going on about here?
I said that warlocks are where they should be more or less removed from the game. Instant high damage spells has nothing to do in RvR! Did you want them to have instantkill spells ?

Healers, Shamans and Bonedancers cant compete with MonsterRess or Alb Range in keep siege. Mids needs something to make them able to handle this.

In fg vs fg Mids needs nothing...there they are if not strongest, equal to all.

/Charmangle

hmm must agree, open field not so big problem, organised groups against organised groups.
just keep/towerfights drive atleast me personally crazy.
have tryed several different class, healer/rm/sb/valkyrie and most fun was whit healer but in end result was same -> wipe (quite equal numbers).

its easy to say do this and do that -> youre unbeatable against albs/hibs but reality is different.
example, valkyrie whit pulsing cae, this can intrerupt whole lord room in keep full of casters? nah, have tryed and several time, usually theres allways traps when enter lord room, storms, wizards wall of flame? etc, and 99% time have all been spread so wide pulse hit only few peeps.
rest have assist nuke me dead faster i can press ip or yell heals.

supp sm (pbaeo) is powerfull but near range, and thats all, there isnt any other tools to use, aka manachanters.

rm.
personally love this class, have been rc allmost whole time, near 4y, respecced to dork month ago.
good aedd, gtaeo, crap dd and crap bolts (miss, combat, way how resists work against bolts).

mids need more ae, and more rangespells what do dmg! not amnesia, no ns, dmg.

 

[Tuppe]

You know, Midgard gets the Healer class...i hear they have some pretty good AOE spells which interupt...

interupt is pointless if you cannot do jack to opponent, and healer interupting when group is getting beating around? dont get group very long.
if amnesia example give same time (healer only) 60% NS? root? whatever what slow or null fighting ability? its more usefull.

 

[Celestino]

I think we already had the fact that one overpowered ability is no reason to create another for compensation ?
Monsterrezz fucks up sieges, and should be addressed as were warlocks but thats a different topic... and in no way a reason for a new ability or class that can replace warlocks position as an all in one wonderchar for sieges.

 

[Tuppe]

peaple playing lock rather solo, and there is nothing more annoying in tower fight than 10 useless lock running solo trying to defand and yealling for buff and rez anytime they got an arrow stuck on their butt

hmm notice this to be true when played healer (pac) once, yelled and begged group, didnt get any invite, yet after short time get pm:s and yells for ress, poc and heals.
find it very boring fast and switched to valkyrie, whit 10% ress

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

2400 dmg in less than 3 seconds is what I face every time I meet a cabalist or wizard on my skald with capped resists, why shouldn't warlocks be allowed to do this? Spiritmasters can also do this, and is an even more sickening class (like the cabalist). All lifetap should be nerfed, yes I'm talking to you sorcerers aswell. In addition to this damage cabalists also have a pet that can kill my berserker on its own. What are tanks supposed to do against classes like these?

I know, I can easily kill the wizard if I get in melee range so their extreme damage is justified. Talking high RR tank vs high RR caster here. But the cabalist camping inside his speedwarp and powertrap with his ML9 pet and crystal titan I can't kill even when I bring 2 high rr tanks with me and even a rr10+ BD. A warlock is required to be able to touch him, if he uses his tools right, nearsight from high range etc.

Are you blind or just baiting? A Wizard/Cabalist dumping 2400 damage in 3 seconds or less without debuffs?

Education time: I used to play with one of the higher RR, better templated wizards on the cluster (Graendel) for over 6 months and i've NEVER seen him pump out more than about 1500 in 3 seconds. With 30% debuff and not facing spec resists he might and i do mean MIGHT pump out around 2000 in 3 seconds if fully buffed. With 50% he can do that reliably...Now unless warlocks have a self-damage debuff i didn't know about?...

 

[Cromcruaich]

Mids current problems are caused by the present state of rvr, mostly siege and zerg orientated.

8v8 they should still be a highly effective unit, it's just not really part of the game anymore

Its time for maelstrom to make a comeback to show what can be done.

 

[Arumos]

warlocks are still extremely powerful in small scale rvr and siege situations, the only thing that puts me off now is the crappy castspeed which imo is what makes a caster.

However, those here whining about mids being the weakest realm, maybe play another realm before u make this judgement (most who do think this have only played midgard :touch: ).

 

[eggy]

However, those here whining about mids being the weakest realm, maybe play another realm before u make this judgement (most who do think this have only played midgard :touch: ).

I hope this thread doesn't turn into the "but...but...Hibs have xxxx and Albs only have yyyy!" thing, but there are clear advantages in ALL realms...and establishing which is the "best" or "worst" realm is simply qualitative and varies wildly on situation.

I mean, even the fact that Hib have the smallest hardest-to-target chars gives them an advantage (albeit a few tenths of a second)

But then Albs have range, etc etc.

 

[Tuthmes]

I hope this thread doesn't turn into the "but...but...Hibs have xxxx and Albs only have yyyy!" thing, but there are clear advantages in ALL realms...and establishing which is the "best" or "worst" realm is simply qualitative and varies wildly on situation.

I mean, even the fact that Hib have the smallest hardest-to-target chars gives them an advantage (albeit a few tenths of a second)

But then Albs have range, etc etc.

And albs have eggy ofc!