This little thing I found..

[TheBinarySurfer]

No no and no. We are born being social and caring but raised being selfish.

That is where the problem is and that is what we must change to start the creation of a perfect world without poverty,

Humans are a social animal - people don't seem to understand that yes, this means co-operation and helping others when society is struggling to survive.

However in societys current setup it means intense competition between each member for resources. Marxism would not change this, and goes against human nature since the dawn of time - human instinct is to accumulate or horde resources in any form to onesself - whether that be members of the opposite sex, money, food, property, etc etc.

 

[Lethul]

No no and no. We are born being social and caring but raised being selfish.

That is where the problem is and that is what we must change to start the creation of a perfect world without poverty,

i think we can agree that we disagree on this issue, and this is not the thread to have this discussion (imho)

 

[echome]

i think we can agree that we disagree on this issue, and this is not the thread to have this discussion (imho)

True
Thanks for your views though.

Humans are a social animal - people don't seem to understand that yes, this means co-operation and helping others when society is struggling to survive.

However in societys current setup it means intense competition between each member for resources. Marxism would not change this, and goes against human nature since the dawn of time - human instinct is to accumulate or horde resources in any form to onesself - whether that be members of the opposite sex, money, food, property, etc etc.

We must change society before such ideas could work yes - but one should think that mankind would be ready to do so when they can see how it would help them in the end.
I am fedup with this current world and I am hoping for something better! Not the thing I wouldnt give up to make it all better... I wouldnt mind having nothing, no computer/tv/money etc etc if that would mean other people would not be starving in this crap world... FUCK CRAP SHIT FUCK! Arghhh... think I'll go sleep some more so I can stop thinking.

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

To cut a very long reply short, youre still seeing it through the same lens. God is, in theory - omnipotent. He/She/It can make the choice to forgive all its children the sin of adam and eve if it so chooses. It chooses not to freely forgive them all (as a truly loving, beneficent being would) but instead to give them the illusion of choice.

A choice with punishment as an alternative is a line that most would cross only in desperation and thats what they rely on to get you to believe. People believe because they fear the alternative, hence blackmail. Thats what modern punishment is effectively - social blackmail - do this and you get punished.

Perhaps my kill example was taken too literally also - disgregard it.

I'd agree that any faith brings with it a moral code, but I dont see why you think this is for weak people. If anything, you'll probably find that your moral code and my moral code are similar. And with all respect, I dont understand why you insinuate that people who believe are any less capable of judgement. We are all human after all who have the same thought process. Maybe those who do believe are just better informed about what they believe in, hence when they examine their faith, it stands up to scrutiny?

With respect, i very much doubt my moral code bears much resemblence to yours as i've built it fairly painstakingly to be the things i believe are right, not the ones that society wants me to believe are.

Those who can, decide these things for themselves to the greatest degree possible. Those who can't, follow others and accept their guidence on moral / personal beliefs. This doesn't make them weak or inferior, it simply means their mind is not wired in a way that allows them to build their own code/values, they accept another set that is given to them.

And yes you hit the nail on the head it's a doctrine for humans to behave a certain way. A way that very conveniently aligns closely with a easily controlled, co-operative populace. History and the majority of objective, anthopological historians support me on this matter.

 

[evzy]

I will believe in jesus when him and his dad pass me a joint...until then...nah.

 

[Commandment]

everything bad seems to entie relgion.. i dont get it , unfortunly there is no modern day miracles. could do with a few with the amount of war thats going on..

its way too hard to believe espically in this modern day and age... props to the peeps that do, that really is faith and faith is a good thing imo.

but the disgrace the church has caused espically in ireland.. yuk revolting to even think about it.

and priests were very looked up to in my general area, in theory they were the law... i e 20 years ago if you asked the local priest could you work on a sunday to put food on the table he'd tell u to fo ....

 

[echome]

its way too hard to believe espically in this modern day and age... props to the peeps that do, that really is faith and faith is a good thing imo.

No faith is indeed not always a good thing. Blind Faith leads to fanaticism... And when you get fanaticism you are on the edge to a new war. Where people will do anything to please the "higher power".

I really would like to belive in something, would make my life so much easier that I could just blame it on "him" if something went wrong. And at the same time I could just read the holy bible and follow what it says and that way have my whole life figured out... aka being a "good" human. uke:

 

[crispy]

On the human body side, the more science is discovering, the more it points to intelligent design. So I dont see it being a problem to go with this theory.

That is the most bullshit theory of all time.

The more science we discover the better we understand the world around us. Please come with a couple of examples where new or old science leads to the conclusion that we are dealing with ID instead of evolution.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Well, just another religion debate thread in my mind. Nothing new.

And on that note...

My Gods would kick that silly god persons buttocks.

 

[Ryuno]

Well, just another religion debate thread in my mind. Nothing new.

And on that note...

My Gods would kick that silly god persons buttocks.

well at least its not sex and teenagers anymore

 

[Thorwyn]

well at least its not sex and teenagers anymore

Talking about which... do gods have sex and how old are they?

 

[old.Tohtori]

well at least its not sex and teenagers anymore

Well i didn't say people SHOULDN'T discuss it, just that there's nothing new in it.

 

[Bugz]

well at least its not sex and teenagers anymore

But...but...but...

 

[Jeremiah]

That is the most bullshit theory of all time.

The more science we discover the better we understand the world around us. Please come with a couple of examples where new or old science leads to the conclusion that we are dealing with ID instead of evolution.

If you dont care about the examples, you can skip over this post

I'm no micro-biologist, but I have a few examples that point away from evolution and towards intelligent design. Lets start right at the beginning of the theory.

We all have a common ancestor, some species that existed before us and we evolved from them. So in like wise fashion, they evolved from an even earlier species. So if we continue going back, there is a single point in history where there was single organism that all creatures evolved from. Where did this organism come from? It is impossible to create life out of the elements that existed on the earth before biological life was there! Textbooks will talk about the Miller experiment which created amino-acids without organic life, but thats been proven to be flawed, and no longer held as plausable. If you recreate the experiment using today's hypothesis of what the primitive atmosphere of earth is, you get Cyanide and Formaldehyde which kills! (I've got references if you want to read up).

Next, Darwin's Tree of Life. Darwin suggested that natural selection happened gradually, that over time species would diverge based on conditions they were exposed to. These would then become seperate species. The icon presented a tree with each species as a branch, which then branched off into sub-species. The problem with this icon is that the fossil records both in Darwins time and now dont support this claim. Heres one reason why.

Around 540 million years ago there was a period called the Cabrian explosion where all the major groups of life suddenly appeared: Anthropods, Echinoderms and Chordates. There is no fossilised evidence of any common ancestory between these new species, they just appeared from no where. Until this point, the most advanced living things were jellyfish and worms...

While some common ancestory exists at some levels (like fruit flies and cats!), theres no evidence to support it in the larger groups (Like humans). So, out of no where, all these new species sprung into life, with no evidence of ancestories to date, with no ancestors to inherit from. Where do you think they came from?

Thats only 2 examples, thanks for staying with me For the sake of everyones eyes I'll leave it at that!

 

[evzy]

SO to save me reading through this - has anyone proven that the Ole God Almighty exists in this thread yet ? If so can you pls PM me with teh link save me reading a load of hocus pocus ooooo scary god exists nonsense...cheers

 

[old.Tohtori]

SO to save me reading through this - has anyone proven that the Ole God Almighty exists in this thread yet ? If so can you pls PM me with teh link save me reading a load of hocus pocus ooooo scary god exists nonsense...cheers

Well...I'm in this thread...does this not prove my existance to you Ezekiel?!

I mean..err...evzy?!

 

[Ingafgrinn Macabre]

Religion is a load of bollocks... people say "but do you want to take the risk not believing and end up in hell?" well, you're equally screwed if it's actually allah that's the real god or god forbid the aztec god. That was one mean bastard.

People say "but if there is no god, who created the universe?"
If there is a god, who created him? It's just shifting the problem really...

perhaps take a look at this site:
http://www.ministerturnsatheist.org/

While you lot believers do that, I'll take my chances not believing in god.

I'm tired of religious people lately. It seems there's more and more pressure of that side, whining about us atheists not giving them respect etc and not letting them value their thing, well I got some news. It's generally the believers that don't respect atheists. I've never seen an atheist going door to door preaching faith, or an atheist standing on a corner of a street screaming that "God is judging us"

God is allknowing
God doesn't play with dice
Everything is ment to be

If that's the case why does he only judge us up there at those frikkin' gates? He already knew at our birth what we're going to do so why not just smite us there and be over with it.

Tah tah bye bye

 

[Iphis]

I personally dont think there is a god, but i like the idea of challenging the idea of being one, through the clash of ideas we get a stronger understanding of our own point of views and we get to pick up other ideas and swap falacies for truths.

Blindly following something, believing something and evening killing for it because its the done thing, your family and decendents have done it before you and thus you must, is just dead dogma i dont see any benefit in it and am strongly against people nothing thinking for themselves.

I have to do a lot of physiology in my degree and atm im thinking how the hell could our bodies have become sooo complicated and still some how function with out something guiding it. The similist things in the bodys have loads of different reactions e.g. the sodium/potassium pump used in the heart to make it polarise and depolarise.

As for Marx he came up with something interesting ideas with respect to how we should live, as a slight socialist myself i like the prospect of small city states in which they govern themselves and you abide through your tacit consent. Problems came when he devised how these rules would be decided upon with out forcing majority rule.

Anyways enough blabbering heh i just couldnt resist replying

 

[Bugz]

Religion is a load of bollocks...

To be honest guys, if your going to argue on a thread, cut with the crap like this above. Nobody wants to be told their 'religion is a load of bollocks' and I'm sure if my mate read this, who is very religious, he would find it quite angry and upsetting.

Try to learn to express your opinion in a non-offensive way please.

 

[Ingafgrinn Macabre]

To be honest guys, if your going to argue on a thread, cut with the crap like this above. Nobody wants to be told their 'religion is a load of bollocks' and I'm sure if my mate read this, who is very religious, he would find it quite angry and upsetting.

Try to learn to express your opinion in a non-offensive way please.

I find it quite upsetting to get that religion bollocks stuffed into my face time after time... what's the difference

 

[Bugz]

I find it quite upsetting to get that religion bollocks stuffed into my face time after time... what's the difference

The difference is the way it is expressed.

 

[Ingafgrinn Macabre]

The difference is the way it is expressed.

Heh... well I'm not going round with an AK47 or M16.
Somehow religion has a way of trying to eliminate all other religions. What happens in the middle-east now, with israel and his neighburs etc.
What happened time and time before in history...
most wars are started because there were two puberal twats screaming "my god rulez0rz your god qq".
I'm quite polite compared to that.

 

[Commandment]

Heh... well I'm not going round with an AK47 or M16.
Somehow religion has a way of trying to eliminate all other religions. What happens in the middle-east now, with israel and his neighburs etc.
What happened time and time before in history...
most wars are started because there were two puberal twats screaming "my god rulez0rz your god qq".
I'm quite polite compared to that.

gotta agree with it. but some people can get upset if you tell them their religion is a load of bollox.

i know i would if its wat i was living by for 30 odd years. as most of the old timers in ireland would have been.

 

[noblok]

Nobody's doing that in this thread though?

most wars are started because there were two puberal twats screaming "my god rulez0rz your god qq".

May I ask the source of these statistics?

 

[Bugz]

Heh... well I'm not going round with an AK47 or M16.
Somehow religion has a way of trying to eliminate all other religions. What happens in the middle-east now, with israel and his neighburs etc.
What happened time and time before in history...
most wars are started because there were two puberal twats screaming "my god rulez0rz your god qq".
I'm quite polite compared to that.

Religion doesn't try to eliminate other religions. Not at all. It's extremeists within a religion that try to cause the damage. If religions try to eliminate other religions, there would be no world left.

And your 'statistics' about how most wars start are laughable.

 

[Vladamir]

Nobody's doing that in this thread though?

May I ask the source of these statistics?

Check holy books (Christian Bible, Qu'aran etc). They've been interpreted in every other way, so why not!

 

[Commandment]

Religion doesn't try to eliminate other religions. Not at all. It's extremeists within a religion that try to cause the damage. If religions try to eliminate other religions, there would be no world left.

And your 'statistics' about how most wars start are laughable.

yep the crusades were just a joke so is the fighting in iresal and the war on terror < which basicly boils down to religion> oh and the fighting in northan ireland prodstand v catholic.. just a nice laughing matter i suppose :>

 

[Ingafgrinn Macabre]

Religion doesn't try to eliminate other religions. Not at all. It's extremeists within a religion that try to cause the damage. If religions try to eliminate other religions, there would be no world left.

And your 'statistics' about how most wars start are laughable.

hmm... remember that little part on the north of that big island to your west? Remember Guy Fawkes? Remember the Inquisition?
Your british and you say religion has nothing to do with it?

 

[Bugz]

yep the crusades were just a joke so is the fighting in iresal and the war on terror < which basicly boils down to religion> oh and the fighting in northan ireland prodstand v catholic.. just a nice laughing matter i suppose :>

War on Terror is against terrorism - not a religion. It's also a very delicate and debateabe subject.

Well done on listing three wars which involve religion though. Theres alot more not containing religion. I just can't be arsed to sit here and type out stuff that I don't particulary enjoy (ie. religion as a whole).

And lastly, learn to read. I never said thats wars were laughable, I said the statistics offered were. Don't try to turn around my comments, through twisting words, to make me seem like some unholy piece of shit.

Ok.

 

[Bugz]

hmm... remember that little part on the north of that big island to your west? Remember Guy Fawkes? Remember the Inquisition?
Your british and you say religion has nothing to do with it?

The main point i'm trying to make it. Saying 'most wars are based on religion' is wrong and a bad statistic at that.

P.S - I never stated that no wars are down to religion. Again, stop putting words into my mouth.