This is it

[aika]

According to Chris Hayes of Cambrian Group (an oil and gas consultancy who's engineers help the industry's main players find reserves) there is enough oil in the earth to last for another 90 years.

20 or 30 years ago, firms were only able to drill for oil in shallow waters. Today we can drill deep

The oil will not run out in our time, or perhaps not even in our grand-children's time.

damn I was already packing my fallout emergency bag ;(

 

[tris-]

Give me an example of what you want me to say.

like i said.

if youre trying to argue a point you need to give information for it and against it to backup your own view.

otherwise we must asume your view is not based on a wide enough range of information, and ilinformed.

am i right in thinking you post these things to try and get other people to accept your view point?

 

[Bugz]

Yes..... Thats... sort of what im saying here? I said that its possible someone might, but not likely.

True I did misread that part.

Do you know what signifies the start of the recovery period after the depression? A massive growth in investment.

Worldwide recession/crysis - worldwide drop in investment. Come recovery we will thus see a massive increase in investment again.

Oh and you do know OPEC are restricting supply intentionally to raise prices again?

Normally I've quite enjoyed your topics Gorb but all you do is quote websites and sing 'doom.' I could quote a vampire site and shout 'doom - vampires will eat us,' doesn't necessarily mean it's true.

 

[Gorbachioo]

True I did misread that part.

Do you know what signifies the start of the recovery period after the depression? A massive growth in investment.

Worldwide recession/crysis - worldwide drop in investment. Come recovery we will thus see a massive increase in investment again.

Oh and you do know OPEC are restricting supply intentionally to raise prices again?

Normally I've quite enjoyed your topics Gorb but all you do is quote websites and sing 'doom.' I could quote a vampire site and shout 'doom - vampires will eat us,' doesn't necessarily mean it's true.

Yes i know. Which reminds me:

Wanted: a green 'new deal' | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk

(Will this qualify for a positive post tris? )

And yes im aware of the opec cut. However i dont think thats a part of the reports numbers. (i could be wrong) There is the theory floating around that the opec cut is not voluntary though but i have no evidence on that so we'll see.

 

[tris-]

Yes i know. Which reminds me:

Wanted: a green 'new deal' | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk

(Will this qualify for a positive post tris? )

well if your view point is the world is doomed then you need arguments for why it is and arguments why it isnt.

thats if you want other people to accept your view (which i assume is your aim?)

 

[Gorbachioo]

well if your view point is the world is doomed then you need arguments for why it is and arguments why it isnt.

thats if you want other people to accept your view (which i assume is your aim?)

But if my opinion is that it is doomed then why would i say that it isnt? I mean do you want me to quote some saudi geologists who says that they have enough oil for a hundred years? What are you after here?

 

[tris-]

But if my opinion is that it is doomed then why would i say that it isnt? I mean do you want me to quote some saudi geologists who says that they have enough oil for a hundred years? What are you after here?

this is just how ive been taught form an argument.

you have your own view point

you have material that supports it
you have material that is against it

you construct an argument from the material and present it for people to either accept your view or not. giving both sides of the information, and being critical on everything you read. or just using straight up facts if its some primary information as opposed to what someone has written about something. you seem to base your whole view on what other people have said. are you taking into account their person agendas? what their view is? what THEY want YOU to believe?

if i come here and say "all women are gold diggers" and i only give info of situations of women being gold diggers, how is that an argument? worse yet, all my gold digger stories are written by men who hate women.

do you think its OK to base my argument on that?

 

[Chronictank]

yeah but this is a internet forum, i think he expects someone else to do the opposing argument

 

[Zede]

yeah but this is a internet forum, i think he expects someone else to do the opposing argument

which as we know from previous experience, is a waste of time. We know he wont listen, no matter what evidence/counter argument is presented.

so whats the point.

 

[old.Tohtori]

It's the, gordon brown, fringers in ears, "ALALALALA CAN'T HEAR YOU!!" method of discussion.

 

[tris-]

yeah but this is a internet forum, i think he expects someone else to do the opposing argument

then we have to believe that he isnt basing his argument on enough sources of information.

hes looking at one side and thats it, making his view not well informed.

 

[Gorbachioo]

then we have to believe that he isnt basing his argument on enough sources of information.

hes looking at one side and thats it, making his view not well informed.

Its supposed to be a dialogue, not a monologue.


You're asking me to debate myself.

 

[tris-]

no im not.

im asking you to give a proper argument if you expect anyone to accept your point of view.

as far as i can see, your whole view is based on what you read on news websites. to me, that means youre illinformed about the whole thing and there is no way i could accept what youre saying.

 

[Gorbachioo]

which as we know from previous experience, is a waste of time. We know he wont listen, no matter what evidence/counter argument is presented.

so whats the point.

But we also know, from previous experience, that most often we dont get to see very good counter arguments. Just like now.


So tell me Zede, how will we avoid a hell of a depression with the credit crisis and 9% less oil in a year?

 

[fettoken]

Things have to get worse before they get better, so running out of oil could be a good thing for everyone (except poor people). Point is, environment will benefit (if some prick doesn't wind a worse alternative for fuel than oil) and less polution meens better health! Bring on nuclear powered cars.

 

[Zede]

But we also know, from previous experience, that most often we dont get to see very good counter arguments. Just like now.


So tell me Zede, how will we avoid a hell of a depression with the credit crisis and 9% less oil in a year?

we could EASILY due without 99% of the oil

Hemp For Fuel

 

[old.Tohtori]

Depression mainly effects the rich, us normal food->mouth people will survive just fine.

Burn rich bastards burn!

 

[tierk]

....You're asking me to debate myself.

No i am asking you to shut the fuck up.

The price of oil went up it was peak oil DoOoOom.

....The price of oil goes down it's peak oil DooOoooom.

Please just stfu i am begging you, you are only making yourself look like a fucking jack in the box

peak oil oeak oil peak oil peak oil wtf man did you go to the same school as Joseph Goebbels or something?? Say it enough times and its true??

 

[Cadelin]

The only thing that was partly correct in what you posted was the middle paragraph. Only that the rise in prices wont be that slow. Not if the decline rate truly is 9%.

Oil price is determined by supply and demand. A small increase in price stops alot of people using fuel. The decline in production is not 9%, more oil and gas field are still being discovered and OPEC countries can increase their output significantly too.

As i already pointed out, replacing oil means replacing every car with an electric one and building countless wind turbiness/nuclear power plants. The infrastructure to do such a thing just isnt there. And we have to take the coming depression in consideration aswell.

A car has working life of around 10 - 15 years. Hybrid cars are already in production and you can easily convert a normal car to run on biomass. We have around 30 years with a reasonably supply of oil and in 10 years time it will not be at all surprising for most new cars to be hybrid.

There is more than enough time to build nuclear and other kinds of power plants to replace the ones dependent on fossil fuels. Countries like India and China are building many new nuclear power stations so as not to rely on fossil fuels. Countries like France already produce most of their power through nuclear energy.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Not to mention(on the above) nuclear cars(working) were invented in the 50 already.

Push comes to shove, we're going nuclear, as we should damnit.

Oil is primitive and it's about time this planet started acting its age.

 

[Bugz]

Oil price is determined by supply and demand. A small increase in price stops alot of people using fuel.

In fact it's completely the opposite.

Small increases in price stop only a small amount of people using fuel.


Oil price is determined by a) OPEC, b) supply and demand, c) governments (if it used as petrol)

 

[Gorbachioo]

no im not.

im asking you to give a proper argument if you expect anyone to accept your point of view.

as far as i can see, your whole view is based on what you read on news websites. to me, that means youre illinformed about the whole thing and there is no way i could accept what youre saying.

Now you just changed the whole thing your complaining about. First you said i should give both sides of the story and now you're saying my sources arent credible. (that is what your saying?)

What the hell do you want from me? Im not saying you should believe what i say without checking for yourself. Investigate it for yourself and then we can talk.

 

[Gorbachioo]

we could EASILY due without 99% of the oil

Hemp For Fuel

All biofuels have been proven unfeasible for many reasons. So no. We could not.

If there is a solution then its in electric cars and mass transportation


for fettoken: Someone already came up with that worse alternative: tar sands and coal. We're destroying the environment faster than ever before.

 

[Gorbachioo]

No i am asking you to shut the fuck up.

Please just stfu i am begging you, you are only making yourself look like a fucking jack in the box

peak oil oeak oil peak oil peak oil wtf man did you go to the same school as Joseph Goebbels or something?? Say it enough times and its true??

If i recall correctly, the previous PO debates we've had havent ended well for you. Could this be the reason for this great reply? I wonder...

 

[Gorbachioo]

Oil price is determined by supply and demand. A small increase in price stops alot of people using fuel. The decline in production is not 9%, more oil and gas field are still being discovered and OPEC countries can increase their output significantly too.

A car has working life of around 10 - 15 years. Hybrid cars are already in production and you can easily convert a normal car to run on biomass. We have around 30 years with a reasonably supply of oil and in 10 years time it will not be at all surprising for most new cars to be hybrid.

There is more than enough time to build nuclear and other kinds of power plants to replace the ones dependent on fossil fuels. Countries like India and China are building many new nuclear power stations so as not to rely on fossil fuels. Countries like France already produce most of their power through nuclear energy.

Why do you talk as if you have a clue what you're talking about? Again nothing but bullshit. A small increase in price doesnt do shit. The massive increase we saw in the summer only got those numbers down a couple of percent. The oil fields we're finding are mostly small and there simply arent enough of them to make up for the decline of the excisting fields. OPEC is cutting its production which for now atleast is considered an attempt to manipulate prices but there are alot of people out there who think that they are just trying to cover up the fact that they are running out. But no one knows. Either way, they do not have a lot, if any, extra capacity. Iraq and Iran being the only exceptions.

You can make a car run on biomass but the whole bio fuel industry is a dead end. It wont help us and it certainly wont be a quick fix which is what we need right now. And as the link i gave clearly states we do not have 30 years of oil left. We're in decline NOW. There wont be any significant amount of hybrid/electric cars on the roads in many years so it wont help us now.

It would take us decades to build any sufficient amount of nuclear power and even then there would be big problems because nuclear power is heavily dependant on fossil fuels. A nuclear power plant produces as much CO2 as an equal size natural gas plant which means that alot of oil is used in the process. And i think you're mixing energy with electricity here. France producess most of its electricity with nuclear. They use nuclear for what we use coal. They're just as dependent on oil as we are.

 

[Gorbachioo]

Depression mainly effects the rich, us normal food->mouth people will survive just fine.

Burn rich bastards burn!

Oh god....


Its not the rich who have lost their homes in america.

 

[Zede]

All biofuels have been proven unfeasible for many reasons. So no. We could not.

If there is a solution then its in electric cars and mass transportation


for fettoken: Someone already came up with that worse alternative: tar sands and coal. We're destroying the environment faster than ever before.

erm gorbo, please just look at all your above replies.

you rubbish all of them.

Any you really wonder why people have a problem with you ?


Ye gods, all anyone who reads this thread has to do, is look at your replies on this page to determine who is talking sense here. Refusing to believe in any, any other argument or even give it an iota of a chance show your true colours.

I can see you sat in front of 3 monitors, scanning all available news outlets seeing if any stories fit into your future dystopia, some do.. and we here at FHOT get the dubious pleasure of letting off some steam CAUSE WE ALL THINK YOUR NUTS.

get it ?

 

[Bugz]

Depression mainly effects the rich, us normal food->mouth people will survive just fine.

Burn rich bastards burn!

Without getting too much into solid economics - no

 

[Bugz]

OPEC is cutting its production which for now atleast is considered an attempt to manipulate prices but there are alot of people out there who think that they are just trying to cover up the fact that they are running out. But no one knows. Either way, they do not have a lot, if any, extra capacity. Iraq and Iran being the only exceptions.

OPEC are cutting production because they want more money, because they are a monopoly and a fuckin greedy one at that.

OPEC are keen to invest into further sources of oil, but for reasons of greed perhaps, won't dive into it until prices reach a certain amount, as to not affect their profits (which I believe have nearly doubled as of late).

Whilst I agree that we will run out of PO, the fact OPEC are so badly wanting prices to go up in order to invest is a sure sign they believe more can be extracted.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Oh god....


Its not the rich who have lost their homes in america.

Owning a home is pretty darn rich from my pov.

And Bugz, without answering anything, yes.