This is it

[noblok]

It's all about definitions, and those who live with less, will be effected less, as they know how.

People need a certain amount of money to survive. If this basic amount rises (e.g. due to food/fuel price increases) the poor people will suffer more. Rich people can give up their extra luxuries they were previously able to afford, but basic 'food to mouth' people will have to give up more essential things.

 

[old.Tohtori]

People need a certain amount of money to survive. If this basic amount rises (e.g. due to food/fuel price increases) the poor people will suffer more. Rich people can give up their extra luxuries they were previously able to afford, but basic 'food to mouth' people will have to give up more essential things.

Ofcourse if it comes to the gorb mega-poor-fall-of-society. But now, as it is, and probably will be, people will be fed and living somewhere, while rich peeps get massive losses.

 

[noblok]

It doesn't have to be a mega-poor-fall-of-scoiety though. Even the increases in food and fuel prices we are experiencing now are harder on the people who were barely managing their finances before than on those who could put aside some money in savings.

edit: Rich people can move to smaller houses and eat cheaper food. Poor people don't have this option, so it'll be the rich people living somewhere and being fed, whereas the poor have to cut into these basic necessities.

(By the way: Warren Buffet got $8 billion richer during the financial crisis.)

 

[Gorbachioo]

Ofcourse if it comes to the gorb mega-poor-fall-of-society. But now, as it is, and probably will be, people will be fed and living somewhere, while rich peeps get massive losses.

This so sad. Just admit that you're wrong.

You're making an ass of yourself.

 

[old.Tohtori]

This so sad. Just admit that you're wrong.

You're making an ass of yourself.

No i think you'll find it's the person calling others names all the time without any "counter argument"(which ironically you claimed people do), is the "sad one".

Relatively rich peope get bigger losses, and poor peopel manage better because it's nothing new.

When you learn t live with a 1000/month, you can easily adapt to 750/month.

When you learn to live with 4000/month, 3000/month is a big step.

 

[Bugz]

Nooooooooo.

Rich people save a lot more in general - Keynes himself said this.

They don't a) straight adapt to 3000 a year, due to savings. Sometimes the savings last the storm and they don't make any changes to their lifestyle at all, as opposed to the poor person who has to immediately change lifestyle.

b) If they do adapt to 3000 a year, how can you define it being a big step compared to a poor person losing the same amount of income relative? If a poor person affords their house at 1000 a month, and drops to 750, they will have to introduce an opportunity cost of which will affect, most likely, their basic needs in some way or other. A person from 4000 to 3000 a month will most likely just consume a bit less, or save a little less, or introduce substitute goods until the storm weathers, simply because they stll have the EXCESS CASH in order to handle substitutes well.

If you are shopping at Lidl, and your income drops by 25% - assuming Lidl is the cheapest supermarket - where do you go? To the fuckin free soup counter. If you are shopping at Sainsbury, you simply downgrade to Tescos or Asdas.

Furthermore, the losses for the rich people is all relative on what job they do. A rich person with wrong shares will suffer; a rich person with the right shares will bloom; a teacher without shares will have no risk in relation.

Please remember also that if we take a financial or economic crisis you have two types of income drop: relative falls and falls for everyone. If prices on petrol go up - the rich and the poor are effected - and the rich having more income, will weather it better.

I think the fact I can write numerous paragraphs which totally disprove your 1 line theories says how fuckin incompetently annoying you are at this topic. Go find something you can actually do!

 

[old.Tohtori]

You're going too complicated about it again.

No matter the income, the larger your selected lifestyle costs are, the larger the effect of an all around % drop will be.

Not to mention the fact, that poor people have learned, due to struggling, to adapt.

If there is a % drop in income, the rich will be effected more.

And could yo please discuss things without the basic "you so stupid" line.

I'm talking from a "what happens in reality" perspective, which you shouldn't take offensively, you have no idea about until you've learned to live with bare minimums(this does not happen while living home).

I may not know statistics and some fancy economics class mumbo, but i know how income drops effect certain income types.

A rich person won't go into the poorhouse, but they have a bigger adaptation problem then when a poor person has a similar income drop.

 

[old.Tohtori]

And i domean "accustomed income", as in, someone who makes 4000/month is accustomed to that and is spending accordingly, but a 25% drop will put a BIG problem, especially if thye got car payments etc etc, much more thne a 1000/month person will have in adaptation.

 

[Hawkwind]

And i domean "accustomed income", as in, someone who makes 4000/month is accustomed to that and is spending accordingly, but a 25% drop will put a BIG problem, especially if thye got car payments etc etc, much more thne a 1000/month person will have in adaptation.

With currency fluctuations and inflation in the Middle East Region (20% inc housing) I've had to make a far bigger adjustment than your example. Your right though, I put off buying a new car and kept my savings growing. We cut our shopping bill by shopping elsewhere. We're not hard up by any stretch of the imagination but we have adjusted our spending somewhat. You have core needs, things you won't do without and the rest you change slightly. Our core needs are our sons activities, holidays and nights out at the weekend.

Here in Dubai my wife mainly shops at Spinny's, it's a bit like Tesco's but double the price because everything is imported. Just by travelling 10 mins further and shopping at Carrefour or Hyper Panda she can save 20-30% on a weekly shop. Small adjustment but big savings.

Word of warning to anyone thinking of comming to this region due to the recession in EU/US. Housing/Schooling/Family Flights home/Medical Treatment is expensive if you do not get them as part of your ex-pat contract do not even bother comming. Seeing far too many ex-pats arrive on shit contracts and then complain about it.

 

[noblok]

Not to mention the fact, that poor people have learned, due to struggling, to adapt.

But those who were very poor before can no longer adapt. If they were living on the bare minimum before the food and fuel price rises, they will suffer more than the rich person who has to go shopping at Lidl to compensate for his income loss.

Going from 4000/month to 3000/month is indeed a big step, but not really that big compared to the poorer people, because you're still on 3000/month. The marginal utility of the money you've lost is far smaller.

 

[old.Tohtori]

I guess it comes down to opinion on adaptation and the ability to do so, and as such, neither side can "prove" anything.

I just find the resilience and adaptation skills of the poor alot greater then those of rich people.

 

[Gorbachioo]

You're going too complicated about it again.

No matter the income, the larger your selected lifestyle costs are, the larger the effect of an all around % drop will be.

Not to mention the fact, that poor people have learned, due to struggling, to adapt.

If there is a % drop in income, the rich will be effected more.

And could yo please discuss things without the basic "you so stupid" line.

I'm talking from a "what happens in reality" perspective, which you shouldn't take offensively, you have no idea about until you've learned to live with bare minimums(this does not happen while living home).

I may not know statistics and some fancy economics class mumbo, but i know how income drops effect certain income types.

A rich person won't go into the poorhouse, but they have a bigger adaptation problem then when a poor person has a similar income drop.

It takes a certain amount of money in every society to have the basic needs of life. (food, housing, clothing and so on). Usually, the poor people of the society have just a bit more wealth than that. Just enough so that they stay afloat in good times. But when everyone loose 25% of their wealth its the poor that can not afford these basic needs anymore and end up homeless. (which as you might understand, is one of the biggest drops in life quality you can have.) The rich in the other hand just get one step closer to this line but never cross it.

Think of it as Titanic. The poor people drowned first because they were at the bottom. If the boat hadnt sunk completely the rich people would have kept partying.

 

[old.Tohtori]

I'd still argue that going homeless for someone who's living SO close to the homeless line is less of a adaptation problem then for a rich person to lose all their savings(which is a similar extreme example as going homeless) and going near the homeless line.

And if you're that close to homeless, fuel costs won't effect it, only rent and food will effect you and like said, poor people have so much resilience that the 25% even would be survivable.

Unless this "almost homeless" ca only afford one bread/week.

 

[Aoami]

You're saying shopping at Asda instead of Waitrose would be harder to adapt to than from going to living in a house to living on the street?

Seriously?

 

[old.Tohtori]

You're saying shopping at Asda instead of Waitrose would be harder to adapt to than from going to living in a house to living on the street?

Seriously?

That's a failed comparison.

From living in a mansion to living in a council estate, is a bigger adaptation then from going homeless from a council home.

And if you have a house, as in, own it, you're not that poor as i said already many times.

 

[Calaen]

I'd still argue that going homeless for someone who's living SO close to the homeless line is less of a adaptation problem then for a rich person to lose all their savings(which is a similar extreme example as going homeless) and going near the homeless line.

And if you're that close to homeless, fuel costs won't effect it, only rent and food will effect you and like said, poor people have so much resilience that the 25% even would be survivable.

Unless this "almost homeless" ca only afford one bread/week.

A rich person losing all their saving is the same as someone being made homeless? you been eating cake all morning?

 

[Marc]

Calean come play Karak Azgul with me and laddey!

 

[Calaen]

I am at work dude.

So close to 40 on my own server

I think you two should transfer to meh

 

[old.Tohtori]

A rich person losing all their saving is the same as someone being made homeless? you been eating cake all morning?

Not same, bigger adaptation, to human nature etc.

If person A is right at edge of being homeless, and get tossed to homeless side, he will adapt better then person B who's been "living the A-class life" and gets tossed to poor side of fence.

This is ofcourse, as said, opinionated thing.

 

[Marc]

I am at work dude.

So close to 40 on my own server

I think you two should transfer to meh

Karak Hirn is full of fags. Karak Azgul is where its at. Loads of open RvR, not just zzzzzboring keep takes, but 6 v 6.

 

[Calaen]

Not same, bigger adaptation, to human nature etc.

If person A is right at edge of being homeless, and get tossed to homeless side, he will adapt better then person B who's been "living the A-class life" and gets tossed to poor side of fence.

This is ofcourse, as said, opinionated thing.

How will losing a nice house and moving to somewhere not so nice but still being able to buy food to eat even come close to having to sleep on the streets?

Have you ever seen a homeless person? they have nothing and are treated like lepers. Theres many things regardless of opinion that comes close to that. They get abused, beaten by drunking louts, someone who has been living off pennies does not make them cut out for living with no walls protecting them.

 

[old.Tohtori]

How will losing a nice house and moving to somewhere not so nice but still being able to buy food to eat even come close to having to sleep on the streets?

That's your opinion on it. I have mine. And i say going suddenly to the poorhouse, is a bigger thump then going over the homeless line 'cause you've accustomed yourself to the possibility over time. If you're so close that is.

Which, incidentally, is not what i was saying originally but nicely drifted to it.

And by the way, i've gone homeless. If you're your only family, then you end up on the streets. That's a very very extreme scenario.

 

[Calaen]

That's your opinion on it. I have mine. And i say going suddenly to the poorhouse, is a bigger thump then going over the homeless line 'cause you've accustomed yourself to the possibility over time. If you're so close that is.

Which, incidentally, is not what i was saying originally but nicely drifted to it.

How the fuck can you accustom yourself to being homeless?

Oh i know lets pretend we are homeless 3 days a week in case we lose our house? I think fucking not.

In all honesty its great that people have opinions but yours on this topic is fucking daft.

 

[old.Tohtori]

How the fuck can you accustom yourself to being homeless?

Oh i know lets pretend we are homeless 3 days a week in case we lose our house? I think fucking not.

In all honesty its great that people have opinions but yours on this topic is fucking daft.

You can very easily.

If there's a risk that you're right at the edge of going homeless, you get used to te idea that it might happen.

If you're living the luxury life, you don't even think about losing it.

If i had my own house, tons of savings etc and then lost it, i would be right off my rocker about it.

But when i was very close to losing my apartment and having nothing, i got used to it and when i did have to move out and basically lose last bit of independence, it wasn't a big shock.

And you're thinking i trivialize the "going homeless" bit, i'm not, it's harsh, but it's not about that. It's about comparing two scenarios and the adaptation of the situation.

 

[Calaen]

You can very easily.

If there's a risk that you're right at the edge of going homeless, you get used to te idea that it might happen.

If you're living the luxury life, you don't even think about losing it.

If i had my own house, tons of savings etc and then lost it, i would be right off my rocker about it.

But when i was very close to losing my apartment and having nothing, i got used to it and when i did have to move out and basically lose last bit of independence, it wasn't a big shock.

And you're thinking i trivialize the "going homeless" bit, i'm not, it's harsh, but it's not about that. It's about comparing two scenarios and the adaptation of the situation.

You had a family to go to, you can never get yourself ready for being urinated on while sleeping just because some prick and his mates know you can do shit all about it. Thats it for me in this thread, Ill be forced to hire an assassin

 

[old.Tohtori]

You had a family to go to, you can never get yourself ready for being urinated on while sleeping just because some prick and his mates know you can do shit all about it. Thats it for me in this thread, Ill be forced to hire an assassin

Even as a joke, you want me dead fo that?

Anyway, yes, i had family, as do many many and even most people out there. I doubt this "crisis" is so abd that people are gonna end up urinated on.

That's an extreme Gorb brought up, and also, yes, you can get accustomed to the idea, but i guess that's up to a person too.

 

[Gorbachioo]

Even as a joke, you want me dead fo that?

Anyway, yes, i had family, as do many many and even most people out there. I doubt this "crisis" is so abd that people are gonna end up urinated on.

That's an extreme Gorb brought up, and also, yes, you can get accustomed to the idea, but i guess that's up to a person too.

Sadly no its not. Countless people have end up in homeless camps already and theres no end in sight.

in related news: 5 found shot dead in Calif. homeless camp - Crime & courts