The whole DaoC 2.0 hope

[Aiteal]

So funcom have announced a new server type

Interesting thing is that to a certain extent removes one of the reasons people don't like full blown PvP servers.

As part of celebrating the release of Age of Conan we are happy to unravel a brand new PvP ruleset that has not previously been disclosed: The Culture PvP ruleset! Note that this new PvP server type is experimental and players on these servers must expect an ongoing change to the ruleset.

The goal of this PvP server-type is to stimulate war behind the three cultures of Cimmeria, Aquilonia and Stygia. As a player on a Culture PvP server, you are shielded from lone travelers of your own culture, however you may still group with any culture and form a group and attack anyone.

The Culture PvP ruleset is an evolving ruleset that will be tweaked and polished based on player-feedback in the months to come. Although it is, at least currently, possible to make guilds across cultures, pure culture groups and guilds will be endorsed on this server, and as such players on the Culture PvP servers must prepare that the future will hold continued changes to the ruleset.

We have changed to ruleset on two servers that were previously flagged as full PvP. The homes for the Culture PvP servers are:


Bane (US)
Twilight (EU)

With best regards,

Funcom

 

[Sparda]

There where getting very close to breaching Mythics RvR copyright before this ruleset.

I smell a lawsuit inc

 

[Spellsinger]

To bad that the races aren't even remotely balanced class-wise.

 

[Aiteal]

To bad that the races aren't even remotely balanced class-wise.

Thats only a concern if you wanna PvE 24/7

My reading of it would be that once you form a more balanced group with casters/tanks etc you autoflag your group as a PvP group.

Personally I think it sounds great, it's just that stygian PvE groups would be more caster heavy, but all three cultures have healers

 

[lairiodd]

There where getting very close to breaching Mythics RvR copyright before this ruleset.

I smell a lawsuit inc

I doubt you can copyright a concept like rvr. Unless they call it rvr, they should be OK.

 

[pez]

thats it, the concept it not copyrighted just the term, Realm versus Realm and RvR are Mythic trademarks i believe.

 

[lairiodd]

Yeah, so, since they didn't call it rvr, they should be OK.

Culture PvP is a totally different term.

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

Problem with that is, that cultures can get extincted.

As long as the game doesn't simulate that is some way, I find the whole concept boring and pointless.

 

[Mirt]

"As long as the game doesn't simulate that is some way, I find the whole concept boring and pointless."

I'm glad you're not a game designer.

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

"As long as the game doesn't simulate that is some way, I find the whole concept boring and pointless."

I'm glad you're not a game designer.

*plonk*

 

[Eithor]

Alot of PvP at the "PvE" servers .

I'm just not fond of Camlann/Mordred playstyle, with 99% pvp, ganking at/in most places etc etc(and to my knowledge, thats what the AoC PvP servers seems to be).

 

[Eithor]

So the PvE servers might been better off, with a name/title as "Normal server".
The "PvE" title kinda fool people into thinking "damn, i dont want to JUST/only PvE!".

 

[pez]

once upon a time there were only the PvE servers and they were just servers. Then the Devs created the PvP ruleset so yeah, really the PvE servers are normal 'how it was originially intended' servers.

 

[fettoken]

Hmm, too few classes to touch this server imo. Or planning for that matter.

 

[dee777]

Stygian groups will have a bloody hard time doing any kind of PvE endgame raiding without a single soldier class available. Gonna be interesting to see rogues dodge-tanking. ^^

If all the gear was available thru PvP _only_ the server concept would sound promising.

 

[Vasconcelos]

Stygian groups will have a bloody hard time doing any kind of PvE endgame raiding without a single soldier class available. Gonna be interesting to see rogues dodge-tanking. ^^

If all the gear was available thru PvP _only_ the server concept would sound promising.

Should be no problem for coding all races as susceptible to become any class....

 

[Ctuchik]

they also say that the rules can and will change depending on whats needed. so there might even be a broader race/class choise on those servers later on to balance group setups more.

 

[old.Tohtori]

I don't hope they give "all classes". Made WoW a bit boring. If there's an underdog, people fight more. It's fun even to be the underdog in these games.

Balance kills games, in some cases.

About being a bad game developer for "i wish they had genocide", i don't think so. Genocide should be an option, total annihilation of a race, BUT, there should be a way to rise back, it to be really difficult to accomplish etc.

 

[Vasconcelos]

I don't hope they give "all classes". Made WoW a bit boring. If there's an underdog, people fight more. It's fun even to be the underdog in these games.

Balance kills games, in some cases.

About being a bad game developer for "i wish they had genocide", i don't think so. Genocide should be an option, total annihilation of a race, BUT, there should be a way to rise back, it to be really difficult to accomplish etc.

Its simply not posible with the current roster of classes, since Stygia dont have no tanks nor healers (PoM).

If they release new classes in future expansions, who knows. But at that time, this idea would be totally forgotten.
The only feasible way of making this server have success in a DAOC style is:

- all classes avaible for any race
- only able to grp with ppl of the same race
- local guards in Kehmi zones, Aquilonia zones and Cimmeria zones, reacting to pvp events around, ala WoW guards, but as long as you keep a peacefull profile and stick to pve, quests, etc... they wont attack you.
- maybe throw bonuses for xping in foreign zones to spice things up and encourage ppl to travel to other zones raising the chances of clashing with local or other foreign players

 

[pez]

Its only the low end content that is culture specific. Its the same as any other server really with full PvP at higher levels unless its two players of the same race.

The only real difference i can see is there is a lower chance of being ganked for your first 30 levels or so.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Its simply not posible with the current roster of classes, since Stygia dont have no tanks nor healers (PoM).

If they release new classes in future expansions, who knows. But at that time, this idea would be totally forgotten.
The only feasible way of making this server have success in a DAOC style is:

- all classes avaible for any race
- only able to grp with ppl of the same race
- local guards in Kehmi zones, Aquilonia zones and Cimmeria zones, reacting to pvp events around, ala WoW guards, but as long as you keep a peacefull profile and stick to pve, quests, etc... they wont attack you.
- maybe throw bonuses for xping in foreign zones to spice things up and encourage ppl to travel to other zones raising the chances of clashing with local or other foreign players

Closet thinking there and something that limits the very core of game design. You have to be able to design something where other side has no healers/tanks and still be able to come through.

- All classes don't need to be avaialable, balance should be reached with difference.
- Can agree on same race grouping, it's logical.
- Can't agree on guards just eating apples and blowing daffodils while a full wargear guy walks buy saying "Oh just doing some quests ya know".
- This would lead in total, if we take a look at your earlier point, for all to leave their homeland and go hunt where the exp is better and no chance of getting killed still.

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

Balance can not be reached through differences.

If you mean that lots of choices will balance the differences out, then you're wrong too.

 

[Vasconcelos]

- All classes don't need to be avaialable, balance should be reached with difference. At the very least the archtypes missing in each race (soldiers in Stygia and Mages in Cimmeria), and still, the PoM would be an issue as its rly a core class in each grp as the game is atm.
- Can agree on same race grouping, it's logical. /nods
- Can't agree on guards just eating apples and blowing daffodils while a full wargear guy walks buy saying "Oh just doing some quests ya know". If not, you will see what is being whined over and over (with 100% valid points) at bea forums and pvp forums: massive camping of spawn spots and in our case, massive camping of quests NPCs and town choke points, reaching situations like blocking spawn points by surrounding the spot with players taking advantage of the collision detection mechanic (this is happening already in PvP servers copying the same scenario Ive seen in beta pvp servers, and the only way of escaping is w8ing 30min till the teleporting to bind point ability is up). There must be some way of protecting the local players while at the same time granting access to the zone to "foreign" characters. Guards was the 1st idea coming to my mind
- This would lead in total, if we take a look at your earlier point, for all to leave their homeland and go hunt where the exp is better and no chance of getting killed still. Hhmm true, but at the same time, you have the risk of being attacked by local players in their home zones w/o punishment from guards everytime u step in, lets say, to get or cash some quests or interact with merchants. At the same time, the local players know that they can stay safe at their home towns even if its risky killing scorpions in the wilderness (sounds also logical)

 

[Bahumat]

What happens if this occurs, will use daoc as an example.

Team A is Merc and Cleric

Team B is Merc and Druid

If Team A want to Gank team B, can both merc and cleric disband thus making them soloers...and the enemy merc cant attack either.

 

[fettoken]

Balance can not be reached through differences.

If you mean that lots of choices will balance the differences out, then you're wrong too.

No. Youre wrong! Because i say so, and i don´t need any arguments, only a few of those!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[old.Tohtori]

Balance can not be reached through differences.

If you mean that lots of choices will balance the differences out, then you're wrong too.

Yeah, waht do i know, it's not like i'm a game designer or anything.

Differences are what create balance IF the sides are not equal.

If the sides are equal, it becomes boring.

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

No. Youre wrong! Because i say so, and i don´t need any arguments, only a few of those!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My statement was pretty much self-conluding.

 

[old.Tohtori]

At the very least the archtypes missing in each race (soldiers in Stygia and Mages in Cimmeria), and still, the PoM would be an issue as its rly a core class in each grp as the game is atm.

- If not, you will see what is being whined over and over (with 100% valid points) at bea forums and pvp forums: massive camping of spawn spots and in our case, massive camping of quests NPCs and town choke points, reaching situations like blocking spawn points by surrounding the spot with players taking advantage of the collision detection mechanic (this is happening already in PvP servers copying the same scenario Ive seen in beta pvp servers, and the only way of escaping is w8ing 30min till the teleporting to bind point ability is up). There must be some way of protecting the local players while at the same time granting access to the zone to "foreign" characters. Guards was the 1st idea coming to my mind

- Hhmm true, but at the same time, you have the risk of being attacked by local players in their home zones w/o punishment from guards everytime u step in, lets say, to get or cash some quests or interact with merchants. At the same time, the local players know that they can stay safe at their home towns even if its risky killing scorpions in the wilderness (sounds also logical)

Yes, archtypes missing, no need for them. As long as it's balanced out with the differences at hand. Someone heals more, make the others do more damage. Etc.

The point of protecting locals COMES from guards GIVING a damn about other races. As in, f*ck 'em up when they get too close.

You should be attacked by locals. Ofcourse. If a war geared muslim walks down london, it's not gonna be long before he's shot. What you need to do, is make most of the storyline start at own home. Then proceed to bring them closer to an "aalied" area, where it's free roam PVP, then push it even further with quests to enemy territory.

My statement was pretty much self-conluding.

But wrong at that, self-concluding, but wrong. Talking from game design experience by the way.

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

Yeah, waht do i know, it's not like i'm a game designer or anything.

Differences are what create balance IF the sides are not equal.

If the sides are equal, it becomes boring.

Didn't know that you have to be a game designer to have an opinion and can't have one when you aren't one.

I'll say it again: balance = equality.

Add to it: cultures = tradition & differences & similarities.

When people ask for same classes for all races they destroy the culture aspect, what is left is different look and history, they may as well play on normal servers.

When people say that if you make the classes different enough, then the Stygian mages will be as balanced as Aquillonian tanks then it is simply bullshit from people who have trouble setting the word difference and equality in a context. At the end of the day you will end up with DAoC 1.91 and all tanks getting almost same styles.

It's like saying "from complexity will arise order!" or saying that "2 + 3 + 5 + 1 = 5 + 6" - different but equal, somehow.

Asking for 3 realm warfare seems like a nice idea for some, but for me it is a carebear movement already before the game started, then the guilds can hide again behind their realm and say "it's red, so it's dead" instead of fighting for own destiny and fame.

I like player driven entities more. DAoC's RvR system looks nice on paper, in reality it failed badly, people had to make own rule subsets to keep the game alive.

I am for purely skill based systems, I don't have anything against plate wearing mages as long as there is a way to kill them, but AoC is a archetype and class based game and the classes have the races assigned from the Conan lore. So this is a no go.

Seeing of how Blizzard gave Paladins to Horde, seeing of how Mythic decreased the differences between all the realms, seeing of how recent releases make sure that players can make groups from same assets I find it highly utopic what you're saying/requesting - design teams are trying to prevent mass whine and give same possibilties by simply removing the differences instead of giving same possibilities by spreading them among the different classes.

The culture server is an half-baked marketing idea to get/keep some of the DaoC/Warhammer players interested, it's so half-baked that even Funcom announced it this way.

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

But wrong at that, self-concluding, but wrong. Talking from game design experience by the way.

:kissit: