The three realms and balance (NOT a whine)

[hellraisermk2]

This isn't intended as a whine, more as a disscussion. It's a pretty common disscussion, but one which constantly changes. Which of the realms is currently the worst in RvR? NOT in terms of skill, but in terms of being unbalanced compared to the other realms.

For me as a Midgard player, at this moment in time it's definately the Albs, with the Hibs being the most powerful at the moment.

From my point of view the Albs have some absolutely amazing classes: Friar, Mincers, Infs and I'd even say Armsmen. But they're still lacking something that stops them from fighting on an even playing feild against enemy groups in RvR. I'm no expert on what each classes have spell/ ability wise compared to other classes, but the main thing I do notice when we bump into them is their lack of CC.

I won't go into too much depth, as I'm sure other people can make a much more interesting/ constructive post to add here. Hopefully, this will be a starting place.

All I do know is, when I see a FG of hibs I usually think "oh shit," especially after our healer (or my healer when I take her into RvR) has had their ae mez group purged. When I see a full group of Albs though, the first thing that pops into my head is "free rp's" alot of the time (this isn't always the case, but alot of the time it is). There used to be a time when it was the other way round.

What realm do you feel needs the most tweaking at the moment, why and how would you fix it (within reason and without nerfing other realms current abilities)? Tough question!]

(Please don't use this thread to whine or flame. If you can type something constructive you're in the right thread. If you can't type a sentance without FFS NERF <x> or OMG l33t OVERPOWERED, then you're in the wrong thread)

 

[Apathy]

It's true. I prefer fighting Mids to Hibs because they don't have GP, don't have PBT tanks, don't have much PBAoE, don't have insane body resists...

I can nuke a lot of Mids for around 400dmg. Hibs is always 171(-239).

They should force Hibs to play as Albs for a week, using counterpart classes. Except...most Hib classes = the abilities of three Alb classes.

a.
*

 

[kameh]

As an archer class I notice a SEVERE lack of PBT when fighting Albs, not complaining though it's a lot easier than trying to fight through stacked PBT..

CC on albs seems ok but it's still nothing compared to Hib/Mid simply because they have no insta's and seem to lack sorcerers Mid/hib have it on a class thats very group friendly anyway, CC is about the only thing that makes sorcerers group friendly and well.. it's not as good <damn I admitted it at last>

Midgard is also lacking PBT, we could also do with more RC spec'd Runemasters.

 

[old.anubis]

albs are the weakest, hibs prolly most powerful
BUT well played mids (i mean ae stun + pbae) >> all

 

[Stormm]

I think accross the board the realms are near enough balanced on terms of abilities etc - they only problem i see is that getting the same range of abilities into a FG of albs as mids/hibs do is not really possible and here i think is the crux of the problem with many alb groups.

In the sense of groups thrown together and in general at atk etc. The more specific RVR guild grps obviously do better and have learnt to overcome (to an extent) these problems.

 

[dakeyras]

Originally posted by hellraisermk2
What realm do you feel needs the most tweaking at the moment, why and how would you fix it (within reason and without nerfing other realms current abilities)? Tough question!]

Can't be done, for the simple reason that if someone was easy to beat before and now they are tougher you will consider yourself to have been nerfed.

If Alb gets insta ranged aoe CC and 6 Sec PBT in a popular line etc etc Hibs won't see it as Alb being brought up to par...it will be viewed as a Hib nerf.

 

[old.Odysseus]

Our groupchat often goes something like this:

"Lets find some mids."
"I hate hibs"
"Stupid hibses"
"Yesssss we hates them"
"They stole our preciousss"

ooopzzz going off topic, well bottomline: I'd rather fight 1.5fg mids than 1fg hibs.

 

[inuyasha]

hihi

and i much rather fight 1 fg albions then 1 healers and 1 mid pbaoer =)

 

[Jiggs]

if you swapped:

the hero class for the warrior class

the healer for albion's sorcerer + cleric

un-nerfed smite, and gave all the fancy cleric buffs to paladins


would be interesting.


the basic and fundamental problem for albion is that CC cannot be played by a cloth caster class, it just doesnt work.

 

[Kagato.]

Remove mezz from the game completely.

Well I can wish.

But other ways to help the situration though not completely fix it would be to make pbt no longer stackable and give the sorc a group de-mezz instant, which isn't as powerful as it might sound considering Albions lacks of sorc's and its not a nifty enough ability to cause a sudden surge of new sorc's.

One on one the balance is more even then you would think its only when you compare group vs group that Albion falls short due to more thinly spread abilities with key group combat abilities in least popular classes.

Increasing the sorc's offensive power would also help by making them less of a bind to play as few people are going to waste months and months playing a difficult class simply because 'there realm needs it'.

 

[shilak]

Albs are probably the weakest as a realm atm, but I dont think it is solely due to the classes, but more to the attitude of albs towards classes that they need. I originally started on excalibur in albion playing 2 classes, a mind/body sorc and an infil. Other albs critised for my choice in putting points in mind for aoe mezz, eventually some more of friends started playing and they chose midgard so I deleted and restarted there.

Id put midgard in the middle atm, currently has a nice balance of classes and I dont think any one class is completely overpowering, healers are the closest to being overpowered but their heavy concentration on PAC spec leaves the midgard healing abilities rather weak.

Currently, id say that hibernia are the most overpowered atm, mainly due to the distribution of key RvR abilities, i.e. PBT and high anti-CC resists on the same spec/class, a lot of classes with long duration CC abilities and group purge.

I actually think the things that cause major unbalance in RvR atm are: -

Group Purge - Whilst purge on its own leaves decent gaps in a groups defences vs CC, group purge leaves next to none.

PBT - They really need to sort this one out, syncing should not be possible. Hibs have a major advantage here as it is far harder to drop a warden in scale with IP/FA2 and running 6s PBT than the cloth wearing PBT classes in alb/mid, let alone when you have 2 wardens running synched PBT.

Resist Buff - I think all they need to do is swap the Healer/Shaman buffs over, and the Friar/Cleric buffs over, this would give all realms good access to the any mezz/stun resists and therefore weakening the dependency on mezz/stun a little.

 

[old.BJ|Bored]

tbh hibs/mids have the insta cc

albs have the numbers

if you gave albs the same cc abilities i think server would be pretty unbalanced because of that.

all id like to see really is stacking pbt stopped and stacking mes stopped - i.e if bard instas thats it, no more mes can be cast on target for like 5 mins.

well actually id like a fg of albs to have same abilitites as hibs ;o but thats just wishful thinking it seems :E

 

[old.Zoyster]

Originally posted by old.BJ|Bored

albs have the numbers

:E [/B]

no we dont........

 

[kameh]

If they made statistics on DAOC homepage show only accounts logged in during the last 3 days we'd know who had numbers. Right now you cant tell really..

 

[Trubble]

Originally posted by shilak
Albs are probably the weakest as a realm atm, but I dont think it is solely due to the classes, but more to the attitude of albs towards classes that they need. I originally started on excalibur in albion playing 2 classes, a mind/body sorc and an infil. Other albs critised for my choice in putting points in mind for aoe mezz, eventually some more of friends started playing and they chose midgard so I deleted and restarted there.

I think the lack of mind sorcs and earth theurgs is because they are not fun to play for the majority of the players. And since it is a game, you want to choose a fun class to play. Very few people will play a boring class to help their realm, its a game with the purpose of entertainment after all.

 

[Novamir]

remove all insta ae CC

give bards and healers ghetto quickcast (every 1min?)

they'll still have single target instas, but that's not nearly as devastating.

 

[Kagato.]

Can hardly class Albion having greater numbers as a decent advantage when this game is mostly ruled by Crowd Control.

If good CC is the winner, then having large numbers means nothing. Thats the whole purpose of CC.

 

[Trinilim]

Originally posted by Novamir
remove all insta ae CC

give bards and healers ghetto quickcast (every 1min?)

they'll still have single target instas, but that's not nearly as devastating.

sounds good to me

Originally posted by old.Zoyster


no we dont........

we actually do, it's proven at camelotseer.com. However, the population of albions that play (this is an argument that is always thrown in, that we have big numbers) is mostly in pve, crafting, alt leveling, etc. Mids and Hibs have superior numbers in RvR for the most part in my experience.

Originally posted by old.BJ|Bored

all id like to see really is stacking pbt stopped and stacking mes stopped - i.e if bard instas thats it, no more mes can be cast on target for like 5 mins.

I agree with the PBT, this is a major issue that needs to be addressed imo, and I like the idea about the bard insta mez (though I'd prefer insta ae mez be removed from all rvr permanently), but 5 minutes sounds a bit extreme, I think around 1 minute would be better.

Originally posted by ApathyEndymion
It's true. I prefer fighting Mids to Hibs because they don't have GP, don't have PBT tanks, don't have much PBAoE, don't have insane body resists...

I completely and utterly agree.

Originally posted by dakeyras


Can't be done, for the simple reason that if someone was easy to beat before and now they are tougher you will consider yourself to have been nerfed.

If Alb gets insta ranged aoe CC and 6 Sec PBT in a popular line etc etc Hibs won't see it as Alb being brought up to par...it will be viewed as a Hib nerf.

sadly, I agree with this post the most... anything that will bring albs up to par and makes us harder to kill will be viewed as a nerf to the other realms (not to everyone I'm sure, but to the majority without a doubt) and all hell will be broken out on these boards about how albion is so overpowered

 

[old.BJ|Bored]

well maybe not being clear, didnt mean on this particular server we have huge numbers more in rvr cos i doubt we do tbh ;o

i meant that the game as a whole is perceived that alb will have greater numbers so to counter this hib / mid have much better cc - to control the bigger numbers.

tbh i said 5 min as it seems that long to me when im messed, get to move for 2 sec then am messed again, maybe have it so ur immune to mes until your out of combat again ? i think its ridiculous some1 can be messed twice in same fight for like >30 secs each time.

 

[Trinilim]

And btw, I have a few suggestions that might make the balancing in rvr a bit better. Please keep in mind I am NOT begging for 'N3RFS!!!' and etc.. These are suggestions that I've contemplated through experience and logic (yes, believe it or not ).




First off, Hibernia:


Bard:
Remove insta aoe CC, or at least make it so that if this is pulled off, another mez CANNOT be placed on top of it. Make able to charm pet.

Enchanter:
Put a recast time on pbaoe, it's an extremely powerful attack that can decimate entire armies in seconds, it shouldn't be abused like it is at its current state. Like a 3 or so second recast time, less than gtaoe, but to where it can't be used to destroy entire armies in seconds(it wasn't designed for this purpose, I'm sure).

(on a side note, sorry to all those enchanters that feel that this is just a blatant 'NERF CHANTERS!' statement, but really, you guys do a lot of damage as is, even with base dds and casting pet)

Casters in general:
Remove casted stun, replace with root like the other realms.

Wardens:
Put a cast time on PBT and/or put pbt on another class.. it's bad enough that a semi-tank can have it. Give 1 instant DD to help in melee, like minstrels.

Heros:
While in moose-mode, should be unable to evade, but become immune to mez/stun.




Other than the pet issue, these are my only real complaints about Hibernia.




Now for Midgard:




Healers:
Remove insta aoe stun/mez. Replace with casted aoe mez (unless I'm mistaken and they allready have it). Give a pet like druids.

Zerkers:
While in hampster-mode, make unable to evade, but immune to mez/stun.

Shadowblades:
Reduce damage by just a little bit, these guys shouldn't (literally, SHOULD NOT) be able to kill tanks solo. The game was intended for this to happen, it shouldn't happen. (this is my own personal opinion though)

PBAOE Spirit Masters:
Increase damage, put a 3ish second recast time.

Warriors:
Give instant Debuffs and etc (like champs have).




I believe this is it for Midgard..




Now for Alb:




Clerics:
Remove insta aoe stun/mez. Give a pet like druids.

Mercenary:
Give instant debuffs like champs, but not as powerful (as mercs have fast weapons).

Sorcerors:
Increase self buffs to just a bit less AF/absorb than healers/bards at level 50 and level 50 only (as sorcs get a pet and dds).

Ice Wizards:
Increase damage, put a 3ish second recast time.

Theurgs:
Make max amount of pets out at one time 3 (no pet zergs, and again, this is my opinion). Increase DDs.

Friars:
Give stealth, PA, pbaoe, 5 instant heals, insta aoe mez with a 60000 radius and a 5 hour insta aoe stun with a 10000 radius.
(JK of course )
Give the ability to transform (like the other realms). Remove Evade/haste when transformed and increase damage taken, but increase damage output. Reset haste timer when transform is used. Immune to mez/stun while transformed.

Scouts:
Self Buffs like the other realms.


That about does it for alb..



What I'm trying to do here is balance out classes, not make one side extremely powerful. As you can see I've asked for improvements to all 3 realm's classes as well as a few fixes to better balance out rvr.

Just my 2c

(I'm sorry to all those who are offended in this post, this is just mho about what should be changed)

 

[busty]

superb post trin

but seriously ..giving friar 'change' wud make them over powered ..they borderline atm in my opinion

 

[kinadold]

Problem is RvR by Mythic is viewed as large scale war, and here the numbers count, but many players like to play fg vs fg roaming
about.

When it comes to fg vs fg we all know what owns, and here albs
have much weaker classes.

Its not fun to ambush and mess 1 fg hibs, then group purge and insta ae mess against u. If ur lucky albs in ur party have single purge, and u might put up a fight, if not ....
At this point all ur casters are dead, since they dont have stun,
and ur hoping melee might save u, but here stacking pbt comes in....

1 on 1 hib classes dont look so uber, but when a balanced group is made, they have much better classes.

 

[Apathy]

To paraphrase Trinilim - "Make all the realms pretty much identical."

a.
*

 

[Kagato.]

No love for the armsman Trin ? :mgwhore:

 

[old.Thanatlos]

Originally posted by Trinilim
Wardens:
Put a cast time on PBT and/or put pbt on another class.. it's bad enough that a semi-tank can have it. Give 1 instant DD to help in melee, like minstrels.

The reason warden PBT got changed to insta with 14 sec recast timer (yes we can twist but highly ineffectively) was that the other 2 PBT COULD cast the spell if they had to even when they were getting hit.

You have no idea how frustrating it is to get mezzed by a minstrel and not being able to use your main skill when they start beating on you.. same when any insta can interrupt your cast of it..

Warden = Bubble.. if you can't cast it you might as well not pull your weapon out and sit down because you'll lose in every situation

 

[noaim]

People wont stop complaining about the unbalance in the game until all realms are entirely the same, I am sure of that.

The fact that you albs have platemail when no other realm do, has never occured as an unbalance to you has it?

And when you complain about GP you never mention your own RA´s. Are they all crap? SoS suck?

Minstrels, speedgivers with stealth, do they suck aswell? Do any other realm have them?

Every realm have their upsides, and their downsides. The thing with Hibernia is that many of their classes can do lots of things, they have more classes with buffs than any other realm I belive (bards, druids, wardens while midgard have healers and shammys, dunno about albion, I guess clerics and friars, dont know if you have more) and 1 more class may not seem so much but it is, especially when their buffers can do so much else (maybe not druids but they have the GP) than to buff.

The only thing I really dont like is that all hib casters get a stun while the other realms get a root, dont see why tbh, but I am sure there is a thought behind that aswell.

 

[old.anubis]

Friars:
[skipped]

on us servers friars solo purpl (!!!) umbral hulks in df

 

[AbPoon]

Oh and fix my "unique" RA aswell cause it doesnt work, mythic nerfed me ^^

 

[old.Nol]

Bards mezzes are not stackable, casting a normal mezz over the insta mezz will not increase the duration. Mezz is our only form of CC.

 

[Qte Eth]

i cant really understand why hibs can be better then mids
bad played mids can be worse then hibs but equal skilled mids just have More abilities
like:
ae stun -insta and usual -dont think many should be said about this -noone else has it, imagine that enchs u dont like with ae stun
best pbaoe-well since hibs are mage realm mids have best pbae
insta mes 31 sec on 30sec timer-hm i cant really understand why mids are given this
zerks-most feared tank class around who can eat warden in 5 seconds and all mages next
and pbt-mids generally have several rms in grp what means their pbt is always better then hibs who are always with 6 sec pbt
2 dark rm -who are best damage mages give 5sec pbt ,while warden damage ..heh
and since more then half rms are 6sec bubble now mids beat hibs here too

hibs dont have this,albs also dont have most ,only have air theurgs who get 10sec pbt and great dd like rms

why u all fear hibs -coz there are more rvr guilds on hib,they go in 1 fg all and get skilled ,while there is nearly 1 rvr guild on mid,and mids are always zerging last 3+months(2fg+)