The three realms and balance (NOT a whine)

[Vireb]

Originally posted by busty
superb post trin

but seriously ..giving friar 'change' wud make them over powered ..they borderline atm in my opinion

yep agree completly friars dont need fixing if anything they need a slight nerf which might come with evade nerf.

 

[hellraisermk2]

Originally posted by Qte Eth
i cant really understand why hibs can be better then mids
bad played mids can be worse then hibs but equal skilled mids just have More abilities
like:
ae stun -insta and usual -dont think many should be said about this -noone else has it, imagine that enchs u dont like with ae stun
best pbaoe-well since hibs are mage realm mids have best pbae
insta mes 31 sec on 30sec timer-hm i cant really understand why mids are given this
zerks-most feared tank class around who can eat warden in 5 seconds and all mages next
and pbt-mids generally have several rms in grp what means their pbt is always better then hibs who are always with 6 sec pbt
2 dark rm -who are best damage mages give 5sec pbt ,while warden damage ..heh
and since more then half rms are 6sec bubble now mids beat hibs here too

hibs dont have this,albs also dont have most ,only have air theurgs who get 10sec pbt and great dd like rms

why u all fear hibs -coz there are more rvr guilds on hib,they go in 1 fg all and get skilled ,while there is nearly 1 rvr guild on mid,and mids are always zerging last 3+months(2fg+)

Healers insta mez is not on a 30 second timer. It's on a 10 min timer iirc.

Also, it isn't a case of hibs being more "skilled" at all. Alb and Mid has an equal amount of skilled people. Then again, when the hibs were the underloved realm and many thought albs were overpowered, many albs used to say the same thing. :/

I can't really make out the rest of your post, but I do know it's exactly the "whine" I asked not to be included in this thread. The above comment on Hibernians being more skillful is the only one I will make, as quite frankly, I can't make any sense out of the rest of the post.

Again, if you can't type a well thought out reply, then stay the feck away from this thread (there's other threads you can whine in). "N3rF M1dg4rd/ 41b1oN/ H1b3rn1A" may be constructive in your mind, but to everyone else you look like a whiney, misinformed kid.

 

[nju]

i myself have played midgard since the day i bought the game and i've never seen any reason for switching realms. tried albion and hibernia on prydwen tho but imo no scenery there compares to the sunset at upplands

dont know much about the different classes but i've enjoyed every class i've ever played in midgard as much as the other

i think it's getting quite tidious seeing how much posts there are about classes in various realms being uber compared to the other and how they should be nerfed - imho it's the people behind the charecters not the charecters that play well

 

[Trinilim]

nothing constructive to say, deleted this post

apathy - I wasn't saying to make all the realms the same, I was merely trying to give suggestions on how to even things out, I see you took it the wrong way.

And I was kidding about the friar part (I'm a friar, of course I wanna be overpowered )

 

[dakeyras]

Originally posted by Qte Eth



why u all fear hibs -coz there are more rvr guilds on hib,they go in 1 fg all and get skilled ,while there is nearly 1 rvr guild on mid,and mids are always zerging last 3+months(2fg+)

So there are more RvR Guilds that are skilled in Hibernia, on almost every server in world?

Get real

 

[Glottis_Xanadu]

I do not feel that realm numbers should affect the abilities of the realm characters. Mythic should have know that more people would like to play Albion, than other realms, just because of the storyline.
All the instants should be removed from the game, maybe make instants then only single target, but no more aoe mezz.
As a sorc, I walk up to a hib group who are hiding in the trees at the amg. I walk up from behind, target, use my /face macro, and qc aoe mezz... I get mezzed before I get it off.
Besides my thought that this particular hib rvr team cheats, it was so annoying to have this happen. Even with the element of complete surprise, I cannot mezz a hib group..

The lvl of mind a sorc gets should not influence the chance that a mezz is resisted or not by enemy players, or mobs. However, it is well known that higher lvl mind means a better sticking mezz, not only a wider area and slightly longer duration. Sorc pets are debuffed when charmed, till lvl 44, something Mythic also claims should not happen.
So there are still some issues with the sorc. The only thing sorcs can do well is CC, but in rvr they are seriously lacking. There are so many bards in Hibernia, the instant aoe mezz is allways there.
The fact they can run up at high speed and fire it means there is no defense against it. Their range is 1500 just like the mezz of a sorc. And before I can qc an aoe mezz, they will have gotten me...

I do not want similar classes, all the classes should be different, to make each realm appeal. But currently Albion should only appeal to sadomasocistic people. It is pure agony...
Give us 6 sec pbt on a good line, give us instant aoe mezz, etc...
Each realm has equal number of skilled players, just Hibs and Mids need less skilled players to win a fight...
Regards, Glottis

 

[tut-ankh-amon]

Originally posted by Trinilim


Shadowblades:
Reduce damage by just a little bit, these guys shouldn't (literally, SHOULD NOT) be able to kill tanks solo. The game was intended for this to happen, it shouldn't happen. (this is my own personal opinion though)

Dont forget the infilts

Assasins DO get nerfed in 1,56.. what do you want us to kill if we get dmg reduce?? gray con clothwearers maybe???

Loosing IP--np with this, we shoould have have had it....
Lowering evade ??????wtf why?????

The best "nerf" for assasins would be nerfing buffbots...
make a "timer" for all buffs out of group. If a buffbot isnt grp with the person buffed, he loose em say 10 mins after. i.e dmg and resist buffs...Then again the assasin or the buffed person wuld grp with the buffer, get some lower RP, this can be avoided by giving a range on buffs. if you are in a certain distance from the buffer you loose em, or something likethat....But Goa/mythic dont really have the IQ to think something like this out!!!!!!

Bot lowering evade imho is utter bullshit and a fregging faggot got pwned by an assasin and was probably a goa employee....
Why the fuck give us evade 7 if we can max evade 50%??bla bla bla.
Hell now we are at it why not give ALL classes detect or see hidden? or wait better yet lets give en True sight on 5 sec timer??

 

[kameh]

If you think your realm is so gimped.. then go play PvP at least there you dont have this problem.

 

[AbPoon]

Why does everyone seem to think all the RM's in Mid have 6 sec pbt?

IT ISNT TRUE

Basicly to have a 6 second bubble you nerf your offense in a big way the same way a thurge does, we have about as many 6 sec pbt rm's in mid as alb does 6 sec pbt thurge's, maybe 20%, maybe less.

imo Wardens are the only class that do a good job of having a bubble, all the other die too quick

 

[Qte Eth]

am i talking about healer insta mes?hm check skald
6pbt theurgs really nerf offence, while 6 sec rms have 179 dd instead of 219 -not a great change at all
and real numbers arent 20% -much more
and where is whine?do i say nerf em, give it to us or smth?just mentioned things which other realms but mids dont have

about other servers -generally with mid classes u can make a grp that will be better then anything hibs can do
check prydwen if u think hibs are overpowered

 

[Trubble]

Originally posted by kameh
If you think your realm is so gimped.. then go play PvP at least there you dont have this problem.

Yes and on PvP its much easier to see which class is worth something. Try check this link that shows how popular the classes are on PvP:

http://www.duskwave.com/daoc/classes.php?server=Camlann&realm=

 

[AbPoon]

I think you'll find 47 supp kind of fucks rm's offense more then you think

Out of about 10 rm's in my guild i belive 1 is a supp rm and thats a lowbie rm, rest are either darkness rc or darkcarvers (47 rc 24 darkness) but thats mainly due to Rulke forcing every rm to have "MAD OFFENCE SKILLZ" as he puts it

 

[hotrat]

6 sec pbt on a theurg would be viable if they fixed the earth pets, in theory a 1800 range pet that lasts 30 secs sounds good, but its a 4 sec cast, and takes ages to reach its target in which confuse, mezz, root, and i think amnesia will stop it.
Also there is the problem with power (6 sec pbt is a real drain), nobody has pointed out that mid is the only realm with pom, makes casters, healers and even skalds cast more spells per 1 minute fight... although hibs do have the 10 minute crack.

 

[AbPoon]

You'll find mana song works better then pom

 

[Trinilim]

Originally posted by aaragorn


Dont forget the infilts

yes, sorry, I should've been more specific with this. Lower the damage output for ALL assassins, no assassin should be able to solo a tank.

And as for "what's left to kill?".. well.. pretty much everything else , you own archers, you own other assassins (sometimes), you own casters, and you can still do some heavy damage against tanks (it's just not right to be able to solo-kill them though).

And about lowering the evade, it's understandable. Evade 7 = 35% evade. Equate your dexterity and quickness into this and with a bit of dodger in there you assassins can easily have around 70% evade. You don't see a problem with that? Mythic is 'nerfing' you because pretty much 3 out of 4 attacks don't touch you. Instead they're making it so that 1 out of 2 attacks don't touch you (50% evade cap). Seems pretty fair to me (and atm my friar has a 49% evade rate and I still get hit enough to make it fair).

And about the buff bots being nerfed... AMEN

 

[lofff]

Ok, not trying to b offensive or whatever, just please, get sum decent info before doing such a matter posts in a thread which started "seriously". I actually tho ur entire post was a joke.. Let's see sum points:



Originally posted by Trinilim
And btw, I have a few suggestions that might make the balancing in rvr a bit better. Please keep in mind I am NOT begging for 'N3RFS!!!' and etc.. These are suggestions that I've contemplated through experience and logic (yes, believe it or not ).




First off, Hibernia:


Bard:
Remove insta aoe CC, or at least make it so that if this is pulled off, another mez CANNOT be placed on top of it. Make able to charm pet.


Actually u cannot remezz sum1 who has been instaed... u alrdy CANNOT, and pet idea sucks... cos pets suck. Make insta ae mezz pbaoe as cleric one adn it should b enuff


Enchanter:
Put a recast time on pbaoe, it's an extremely powerful attack that can decimate entire armies in seconds, it shouldn't be abused like it is at its current state. Like a 3 or so second recast time, less than gtaoe, but to where it can't be used to destroy entire armies in seconds(it wasn't designed for this purpose, I'm sure).

(on a side note, sorry to all those enchanters that feel that this is just a blatant 'NERF CHANTERS!' statement, but really, you guys do a lot of damage as is, even with base dds and casting pet)


Kinda agreed on that, PBAOE (in the 3 realms) is far too powerfull.


Casters in general:
Remove casted stun, replace with root like the other realms.


then giv stun to droods? bards? or leave hibernia as the only realm wo casted stun (note that we are alrdy the only realm wo insta stun)


Wardens:
Put a cast time on PBT and/or put pbt on another class.. it's bad enough that a semi-tank can have it. Give 1 instant DD to help in melee, like minstrels.


no comments... u need to play a warden before thinking on nerfing em but its true that pbt on papercasters is not a good defense


Heros:
While in moose-mode, should be unable to evade, but become immune to mez/stun.

This actually boosts the class... they are fine atm me thinks no need more luving


Other than the pet issue, these are my only real complaints about Hibernia.




Now for Midgard:




Healers:
Remove insta aoe stun/mez. Replace with casted aoe mez (unless I'm mistaken and they allready have it). Give a pet like druids.

They do have casted aoe mezz... and drood pet suck ass... Just make insta stun/mezz single instead of AE

Zerkers:
While in hampster-mode, make unable to evade, but immune to mez/stun.

They actually cannot evade/parry while frenzy (hamster), so same as heros u are just giving em the inmunity to stun/mezz while stag... not so uber for heros but a unstopable rat would b overpowered, they are fine now, dont need more luving.


Shadowblades:
Reduce damage by just a little bit, these guys shouldn't (literally, SHOULD NOT) be able to kill tanks solo. The game was intended for this to happen, it shouldn't happen. (this is my own personal opinion though)

This is due to buffbots, nerf buffbots then sbs cannot keel tanks..


PBAOE Spirit Masters:
Increase damage, put a 3ish second recast time.

SMs pbaoe is the MOST powerfull in daoc, why increase dmg? Oo its alrdy the HIGHEST one... but again, pbaoe (on the 3 realms) is far too powerfull.


Warriors:
Give instant Debuffs and etc (like champs have).

That breaks me down... giv warriors champ debuffs, armsmen stormcalling and heros pally chants... U are messing up hybrids and pure tanks mate, 1.57 fixes warriors with the biggest dmg output among the pure tanks


I believe this is it for Midgard..




Now for Alb:




Clerics:
Remove insta aoe stun/mez. Give a pet like druids.

oh dear.. druid pet SUCKS, stop giving pets to everyclass cos its plain crap... clerics are preety ok atm, maybe unnerf a bit smithe, decreasing to 3sec the spec smithe, making it "able-to-crit" as caster DDs and increasing pbmezz timer to 50-60 secs (insteado of 30) so an ability on a 5min timer actually has any use instead of been the utterly crap its atm.(but still group-cleric shouldnt spec smithe as group-droods does not spec nature, buffs, heals and a good RA on both classes says it all, but for the fact that clerics have stun)

Mercenary:
Give instant debuffs like champs, but not as powerful (as mercs have fast weapons).

lol again... now messing light tanks and hibrids.. mercs and bms need sum luving, mb evade4 or plaing meleedmg boosting, but dont mess up classes

Sorcerors:
Increase self buffs to just a bit less AF/absorb than healers/bards at level 50 and level 50 only (as sorcs get a pet and dds).

omg u really wanna break me ^^, tanking casters... sorcs are ok. Mb changue their DD spec to a more rare dmg type since everybody caps body

Ice Wizards:
Increase damage, put a 3ish second recast time.

blah blah... same as the other pbaoers

Theurgs:
Make max amount of pets out at one time 3 (no pet zergs, and again, this is my opinion). Increase DDs.

Agreed on the pet zerg part but... u actually know air-theurgs get 210 spirit DD? and how fucking uber it is? _NO_ need increase.

Friars:
Give stealth, PA, pbaoe, 5 instant heals, insta aoe mez with a 60000 radius and a 5 hour insta aoe stun with a 10000 radius.
(JK of course )
Give the ability to transform (like the other realms). Remove Evade/haste when transformed and increase damage taken, but increase damage output. Reset haste timer when transform is used. Immune to mez/stun while transformed.

Actually this would b a nerf to friars since their strenght is their evade/haste/endregen and their weak point is low hps...But ofc, again overpowering a class making it unstopable, u want heros, zerkers and friars to be totally unstopable (but for root ofc)

Scouts:
Self Buffs like the other realms.

k remove their shields and balance their ranged dmg output then. All archers are nerfed to the bones... they just need to miss/fumble less
That about does it for alb..



(I'm sorry to all those who are offended in this post, this is just mho about what should be changed)

No offense, just amused .) sum good ideas, gg

 

[Aussie-]

give albs those "rare" 20%+++ resist items. :hat:

 

[kameh]

Seriously people the realms are meant to be different, I think most of the problems people have is that they expect all 3 realms to have the same basic group types. Classes are different, soi groups have to be too. Deal with it because Mythic will not make all the realms the same

and for the love of f*** stop suggesting giving pets to MORE classes, there's already enough of them especially in albion.

 

[lofff]

Originally posted by Aussie-
give albs those "rare" 20%+++ resist items. :hat:

10% u fool ^^

Originally posted by Aussie-
back soon!

oh shit! :wall:

 

[Tranquil-]

Saw someone speaking about the evade nerf, it's not a very big nerf..

Look at evade as a divided skill.

1) The base chance you have from evadeskill(i.e Evade 7 which assassins have.)

2) The stats that modifiy that base evade chance every time an attack is done towards you.


Now.. The fixed percentage you have from dodger and evadeskill is not capped at 50%

It's the % chance you get from the stats that MODIFY the base chance(i.e evade 7) to evade that single blow that's capped to 50%. Dodger should add to that with a fixed 3% increase per lvl after stat modification has been done.

You still CAN evade more than 50% of the attacks done to you, it's just that stats will not give you an insane chance to evade any more. Your chance to evade is NOT capped at 50%. It's the stat modifier that's capped at 50%. The one that modifies the base chance.

Buffed evadeskill was nerfed, not evadeskill generally.

 

[belth]

Originally posted by lofff
Shadowblades:
Reduce damage by just a little bit, these guys shouldn't (literally, SHOULD NOT) be able to kill tanks solo. The game was intended for this to happen, it shouldn't happen. (this is my own personal opinion though)

This is due to buffbots, nerf buffbots then sbs cannot keel tanks..

Change the way LA scales up on SBs, (closer) to how every other weapon-spec scales, not the insane way it is now. That's a good start.

 

[shilak]

Tranquil, read the patch notes before you comment, if Dodger worked above the new 50% cap then why give assassins with Dodger a realm respec?

Taken from 1.56 release notes : -

- We are capping the maximum amount that any player (of any class) can evade at 50%. Assassins are the only classes that can currently go above this cap, by linking together their Evade 7 ability, plus the Realm Ability Dodger, plus stat bonuses. Assassins will be granted a Realm Ability respec for those who no longer want Dodger ability (as it is usually Dodger that pushes them above 50%). Please note that you will get the realm ability respec only if you currently have Dodger and you are a Nightshade, a Shadowblade, or an Infiltrator.

Hence, post 1.56 no-one should be evading attacks from an equal level opponent more than 50% of the time on average.

 

[mohaddyn]

Sadly, RvR has become a matter of who has got the best 'extras', not about who plays with the best tactics.

I for one like very much to play in guildgroups, sometimes as small as 3 players.

When we encounter mids, the fight is mostly 'fair', or at least we all have the same chance of winning (if we are about the same number of players). Sure, mids have insta mess, stun, etc. but we can deal with that if we play well.
Here tactics can play an important role.
If we have the initiative, we can win these fights.

When we encounter hibs, we mostly just sigh and swear about insta-win buttons, etc. They have far better CC. They have group purge. They have classes that are by far superior to our equivalents: No alb class could really compare to an Enchanter, who has DD or PBAOE, as well as a pet that poses a lethal threat to our casters? No alb tanks have PBT, buffs and other 'goodies' like wardens have. And so on...
In these fights, tactics play a minute role. We might kill one opponent for each four of us killed if we play well, but that is not much of a comfort.

Make all realms equal: Give insta-everything to all realms, or remove them completely.

 

[AbPoon]

Friers are one of the best melee classes in the game and they have buffs rezz heals and resist buffs

 

[mohaddyn]

Originally posted by AbPoon
Friers are one of the best melee classes in the game and they have buffs rezz heals and resist buffs

True.

They do lack PBT, end regen and other things though.

 

[dakeyras]

Everyone who has a braincell in their head knows that Hib is overpowered at the moment...it just cannot be argued against. There were reasons for doing it, but those reasons were skewed. Mythic should never have tried to resolve population issues by nerfing the most populous realm and buffing the least favorite.

The situation is so far gone on some US servers that fairly swift action is inevitable. I fear that simply addressing Albion issues is not going to be enough and that to restore a 3 realm game the nerf bat is going to swing very hard. No genuine players want nerfs because it demoralises customers who have devoted huge chunks of time to developing their characters.

The introduction of untested Realm Abilities and the whole RR system has unbalanced the game hugely. We all know that these games are cyclical and that every few months the balance is going to shift between realms, but what has changed that is Realm Ranks. An overpowered realm such as Hibernia is going to contain a large number of artificially high RR players, and in order to combat this the nerfs have to hit harder. Better brains than mine will no doubt find a way to resolve the situation but I fear for the future of a game I love unless the Project managers start getting it right. Realm abilities were probably the biggest mistake Mythic made.

 

[Eleasias]

Originally posted by mohaddyn

When we encounter hibs, we mostly just sigh and swear about insta-win buttons, etc. They have far better CC. They have group purge. They have classes that are by far superior to our equivalents: No alb class could really compare to an Enchanter, who has DD or PBAOE, as well as a pet that poses a lethal threat to our casters? No alb tanks have PBT, buffs and other 'goodies' like wardens have. And so on...

Umm, since when Healer wasnt the best CC class in the game? You got SoS / BoF, we got GP (cant argue more) Air theurg is pretty close to an enchanter, but no pbaoe (chanters neeeeeeed a nerf!) Yeah, no alb tanks have PBT... but neither do hib tanks :>

 

[AbPoon]

Bahhhhhhhhhh deal with it, KILL THE FIRBYS THE CELT'S AND BRING TO THE ELPHS TO MY PRIVATE CHAMBERS

 

[Eleasias]

Originally posted by mohaddyn


True.

They do lack PBT, end regen and other things though.

Friars are very close to wardens, except they dont get PBT, they get uber melee instead. Anyone saying warden is a tank is talking out of his ass (if scale = tank, then clerics are tanks too) Both classes also get resist buffs.



Enhance: Target has an increased rate of endurance regeneration.
2 Saint's Vigor Self Instant (Pulse) 2 end regen (2/pulse)

Enhance: Reduces endurance the target uses in combat.
12 Saint's Energy Self 3.0 10% 10% power
22 Saint's Stamina Self 3.0 15% 10% power
32 Saint's Persistence Self 3.0 20% 10% power
42 Saint's Tenacity Self 3.0 25% 10% power

 

[Eleasias]

Originally posted by dakeyras

The introduction of untested Realm Abilities and the whole RR system has unbalanced the game hugely. We all know that these games are cyclical and that every few months the balance is going to shift between realms, but what has changed that is Realm Ranks. An overpowered realm such as Hibernia is going to contain a large number of artificially high RR players, and in order to combat this the nerfs have to hit harder. Better brains than mine will no doubt find a way to resolve the situation but I fear for the future of a game I love unless the Project managers start getting it right. Realm abilities were probably the biggest mistake Mythic made.

You can nerf Hib all you want, LA will be owning your ass anyway, RA's are the best thing this game got (otherwise a *lot* of people would have quitted ages ago)