The State of T4 in General

Discussion in 'Warhammer' started by Bugz, Apr 21, 2009.

  1. Bugz

    Bugz Fledgling Freddie

    I'm not sure about other servers, but on Karak-Azgal the state of T4 is abysmal - so much so that figures for the amount of people online are just as numerous in T4 as they are in T1/T2. The T4 problems are devastating to the general game play and the new patch has only heightened this problem.

    Examples of problems/situations that are ruining this game, literally:

    - War-camp camping:- being the only 'straight-into-the-action' access to the rvr areas, Destro warcamps are being camped consistently by Order in order to achieve zone locks. In worse case scenarios this occurs for up to two hours. Having a smaller force, Destro simply can not counter it.

    - The token system has elevated the need to take zones; take forts; take IC. This is all fine and dandy, but IC is rubbish, the lag is rubbish, the game crashes when large amounts of people are in one zone. The group camping the monolith in IC are unbeatable due to KB and height advantages. The PQ is very hard to complete with a full presence on both sides; pushing one side back is hard enough, let alone dealing with a lord & hero adds too!

    - The game simply takes place in one zone 90% of the time. The devs have failed to create a game where action is consistently happening in lots of places. This is fundamentally down to the allure of taking keeps/bo's for rp's, and the 'easy-access' into the fight. Not helped by the small size of the zones -> action centers around keeps or war camps - very little else.

    - The game literally locks completely when IC is taken. Many people can't get in; the only sc avalible to 40's has now been revoked and the CTDs cause people to log rather than play. I know A LOT of people who despise city raids because they add very little to the game.

    - The population simply cannot support the game IMO. A lad on WHA did figures for Azgal -> 900 online per side (not including anons) and only 300 in T4 at prime time. A smaller minority still actually RvRing. A spread of say 200 (excluding pvers) across 3 zones and numerous scenarios simply does not work. More clustering is IMO needed.

    Just curious if other servers engage some of these issues and whether they too feel the whole allure of great pvp & rvr is failing miserably as of lately...
    • Like Like x 1
  2. TheBinarySurfer

    TheBinarySurfer Can't get enough of FH

    K8P suffers from the same problem but reversed most of the time - Destro have far superior numbers to Order most of the time. This problem is compounded by the abundance of high RR set groups Destro have (XXI, Moonlapse, Legio, Bloodline, Fracture, Eclipse Team, and about 4-5 other guilds) compared to Orders 1-2 regular organised set groups.

    K8P has chain crashed on forts, people get random disconnects and 5-50s lag in altdorf.

    I've just spent 30 mins sitting waiting to get into an altdorf instance on tonight's seige. Logged in boredom and spent the time browsing around for a new MMO to play with good pvp. There aren't any currently, which if i'm honest is all that's really keeping me playing WAR - lack of decent competition (i don't call WoW decent).
  3. mooSe_

    mooSe_ FH is my second home

    I'm on order - azghal and destruction - k8p but i would gladly swap those round because this was just isnt much fun. (however I'm not prepared to delete all my characters over realm balance which could easily change e.g. destruction was underpopulated on k8p previously)

    I'm starting to think I prefer small scale tactical pvp to this 'rvr' now...maybe I should go back to guildwars.
  4. Ctuchik

    Ctuchik FH is my second home

    from what i hear of norn, things are starting to look good for dest again after being in an almost perma IC city siege for the last month or so, but when the AOE nerf came they couldn't abuse their BW's anymore and are actually dying again.

    have to resub soon to check things out. bad economy lately :<
  5. Lubbock

    Lubbock Fledgling Freddie

    On Karak Norn the problem is the lag and server crashes.
    Sides are pretty even now, destro have come back to T4 and there have been some good fights, but now comes the problem as fights carry on and the need to lock zones big zergs are being madem yesterday we defended our keep against 134 Destro and had about 2 WB defenders and as all expected server crashed, this happens everytime things start getting interresting, sure i cna handle a little lag thats part of MMORPG during big fights, but game crashing or having 7 sec delay on spells just isnt fun.

    The other day we finally had Destro paying a visit to Altdorf, we planned to welcome them with open arms, so we made a guild warband to get some altdorf fun, but big surprise we werent able to join as a Warband, so finally we disbanded warbandm and joined as solo persons we all ended up in different instances, against set Destro groups and once we finally managed to get a decent fight going, server crashed.

    So i join the comment, there are no other MMORPG to join atm, so im sticking to Warhammer, but once Champiosn online comes out, im leaving straight away, because lets face is sure they fix bugs and such, but game gets more and more unstable.

    Really a shame, Warhammer could have been so great, but just to unstanble to handle the need of the players, big shame.

    But this is just the ramblings of a mad Dane, letting off some steam.

    And just to say we are not losing due to RoF nerf, we are losing because Destro is now in T4 again, and we are not used to that, we had gotten used to steamrolling, the fact that PoS got nerfed along RoF is just awesome :)
  6. `mongoose

    `mongoose One of Freddy's beloved

    There's loads of ways into camped zones. Whether you have the numbers to actually do anything when you're in zone or not is another question.

    If your warcamp is camped fly to the next zone's warcamp and ride accross into the zone under attack and hit the bo furthest away from the warcamps.

    Warcamp "camping" is the easiest circumvented zone lock tactic.

    Aye it's gash for both sides mate. It's the same in Altdorf on Norn.

    That's a population issue however, not a game mechanic issue. We often have 2 zones being pushed on norn - sometimes three.

    I feel for you there. The issue there is population more than mechanics however. If Destro are all camping in one zone trying to lock it there should be two other zones that you could split your forces and take - thus forcing a counter push and making them split up to deal with.

    After a month of being zerged or dealing with daily ic farms whilst alot of people just chill on alts and in lower tiers on Norn I can empaphise with your situation but not with the apathy in your response. An organised warband can make locking a zone hell even for 2-3 warbands of opposition. Just by hitting different BO's and making them commit people to camping a single BO for hours on end.

    I'm amazed how many people sit at a warcamp being farmed when they're camped. There's loads of ways into every RVR zone.

  7. pikeh

    pikeh Resident Freddy

    Saved me a lot of typing!

    Most of the issues you are facing are down to player stubborness or population.
  8. Faeldawn

    Faeldawn Fledgling Freddie

    Stopped playing T4 (Norn) a while back and i will not go back until they fix the shit-storm of domination, lag and server crashes and yawn-fest pve grind city sieges.

    Loving T1-T3 atm and have no plans to go back to T4 anytime soon.
  9. mooSe_

    mooSe_ FH is my second home

    Ah i just cant be arsed to log in anymore, plus I have exams and such coming up so I have more important things to do.
  10. BloodOmen

    BloodOmen I am a FH squatter

    I gave up on it, server I was on was experiencing massive lag during fort takes it was impossible to cast spells or avoid aoe for that matter, even if you were out of the aoe you were still being hit by the ticks for it while you were 10 mile down a hill or such.

    I suspect this is down to GOA being a naff company however, as for the way t4 zones were I agree bugz they should spread it out abit more, because warcamp camping is no fun at all for the poor fuckers stuck inside with bugger all else pvp wise to do.
  11. Tallen

    Tallen Fledgling Freddie

    Just a small update from Norn.

    T4 is a complete waste of time.

    You get almost no fighting anymore, players want zone cap rewards and don't really care about anything else. You wind up with half the players AFK stood in the WC, partly because they cannot be bothered anymore to defend a zone for 30 minutes but mainly because it is hard to do that anymore thanks to the melee DPS ninja balls-up.

    A 6-man group can now ninja take any level keep and it will not even flag on the map as under attack if they do it right until the lord is dead. The real problem is it can be done so quickly that unless you have at least a group in the keep to defend, you can't raise the alarm quickly enough. Keep a group in the keeps then, logical surely? Well, no. You'd have to have them sat there for 2 freakkin hours instead of the usual 30 minutes for BO caps on the offchance the keep gets ninja capped. Who wants to sit in a keep doing fuck-all for 2 hours? No-one and chances are if they were there, they'd be afk when the enemy showed up.

    Cities are a craptastic pve lagfest, yes, thats right, an INSTANCE which lags to, great job Mythic!!!

    It's a joke, players are leaving in large numbers, Burlok being the latest server to close down this weekend. Unless something is done, there will be no game worth salvaging in 6 months time.
  12. Calaen

    Calaen I am a massive cock who isn't firing atm!

    Always fighting on Norn in two of the three zones, fort attempts and cities are of course only good if either side has few numbers.

    As it currently stands both sides are defending fortresses now on a daily basis and pushing the enemy back to the middle zone. Still alot of lag in a zone when one realm has 6+ WB's but it's playable, but no where near the level it should be at.

    As for keeps being ninja'd not every keep can be taken using this method and it does not take a full group to stop it from happening. One person can easily stop a 6 man from taking the keep.
  13. Boggy

    Boggy Fledgling Freddie

    Population issues are game mechanic issues. Your game mechanics should either work with lopsided populations or ensure equal populations. WAR does neither.
  14. `mongoose

    `mongoose One of Freddy's beloved


    Population issues face every single mmo. There's no real cure to them as even when you have "even" numbers the randomness of server population can lead to imbalances over the day.

    'mechanics' can only lessen the imbalance and provide alternative routes (which war does) they cannot magically solve the problem.

    If you're going to moan about something in war then pick on the things that are truly fuckoed.

    The plethora of dodgy or simply broken skills/auras/abilities and immunities.
    The State of End game (lol pve pq's for the lose)
    The insane randomness of loot drops and the curse of the loot gods
    The shit way that Goa are going about fucking over server community after server community with no regard for subscribers on "closing" servers and "destination" servers.

  15. GReaper

    GReaper Resident Freddy

    I've renewed to level up an alt, although when things are quiet whilst levelling I've gone back to my Zealot for a bit of fun. A few aspects of T4 have improved since I've left - but it seems like they haven't really fixed things in the long run.

    Zone capture still doesn't feel like it's satisfying enough. Instead of improving the existing mechanics they've just bolted on a domination system which isn't that great either. The existing victory points could've done with fixing, an idiotic system which allows one side to capture all keeps but if the losing side runs set groups in scenarios and the winning side has a bunch of non-40 players you lose more and more points.

    Fortress raids are still as crap as ever. Defenders can just totally ignore the defence of the last zone and camp the fortress, it doesn't take many defenders to block the staircase and cause so much lag it isn't fun. The "you are too terrified to do that" anti-rez aura is still pathetic, players just instadie and you're forced to run from the war camp just to take part in the raid you've spent ages to get to.

    It just feels like they've spent more time designing the PvE content for sub-40 players than spending time figuring out just what happens when you reach 40.

    It also seems like they've missed some of the best parts of DAoC which made it fun - decent PvE at end-game (well, mostly), a 3 way fight, decent rewards for fighting instead of humping keeps all day long.
  16. GReaper

    GReaper Resident Freddy

    Just to continue ranting on a bit..

    After doing fortress defence I think it's fairly obvious that zerg vs zerg inside a keep/fortress is never going to work well with collision detection. It's bad enough for defenders to try and move around whilst defending, it's impossible for attackers to get up with huge numbers of friendly/enemy players blocking the way, as well as the awful lag and framerate problems most people have.

    Things weren't that bad with chaotic rift/electromagnet being able to suck huge numbers of players up and kill them quickly, but with this tool nerfed the fight just lingers on until the attacking side gives up because they realise they're never going to capture - along with players dying one by one and being forced to release because of the idiotic anti-rezz aura.

    Maybe a simple redesign of the fortress might help to stop fights lingering on - you can't expect 100+ people to go up a single staircase.
  17. `mongoose

    `mongoose One of Freddy's beloved

    Fort Redesigns are incoming (allegedly)

    I'm going to take issue with you on Electromagnet and rift. They have no place in any mmo imo. If you look at the skills on their own you think "what's he moaning about". The problem is a solo engineer or magus isn't going to electromagnet or rift unless they want to die quickly.

    A supported Engineer or Magus will have POS/ ROF already waiting along with Snare/Root/Stun/Knockdown/Disable/ Yawn.

    CC in War is probably the biggest issue atm. Too many Classes have multiple forms of CC and the immunities aren't applying properly. It's too easy for people to kite classes that are supposed to be running people down imo.

    I don't think CC should be removed per se. I just think that you should get longer immunity once you've been rooted/stunned etc for 30 seconds. This is if youre still alive which vs good guild groups you won't be.

  18. GReaper

    GReaper Resident Freddy

    Yeah, I'm not saying that they should be put back to their former glory - just that it was a useful tool for resolving a fortress fight, whichever side used it effectively killed a huge chunk of the enemy players.

    A quick fortress fix would be to move the lord down a level, just before the final staircase. Add in another couple of doors so theres north/south/east/west entrances and keep the rest as is so healers can stay up top.
  19. Faeldawn

    Faeldawn Fledgling Freddie

    I think your wrong here.

    WAR's pve endgame might be a bit limited and buggy at the moment, but it can be challenging and rewarding with 6-man instancing, DAoC's was boring, repetitive and easy, VERY easy, even the dragons were *yawn* after ToA. DAoC's pve was probably the worst grindfest of almost any mmo.

    Rewards for fighting AND taking/defending keeps is far more apparent in WAR than DAoC and they have avoided the rediculous RA skill system which made average zerg surfers into veritable gods.
  20. GReaper

    GReaper Resident Freddy

    Now I remember all the other problems.

    Our side was trying to take the second fortress - but the wonderful system which prevents too many people from going to the same zone constantly kicked me out to the warcamp. An absolutely hideous system, why the hell couldn't it just port me back a little bit so I could join in once a space is available?

    Finally get into Altdorf and it's just yet another boring PQ, zerg vs zerg. Far too much client side lag, quite a lot of server side lag, repeating the same PQ over and over again. I stayed for about for 3 attempts, we lost the first step of the PQ every time - however Order couldn't kill the second part. An entirely pointless and boring PQ.
  21. mooSe_

    mooSe_ FH is my second home

    - Logged on
    - Saw that 2 forts were locked and altdorf was contested
    - Checked to see if guild was doing anything other than fighting in altdorf (they weren't)
    - Logged out
  22. dee777

    dee777 Loyal Freddie

    You describe perfectly well what made me not renew my subscription.

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