The state of RvR combat

Discussion in 'Warhammer' started by GReaper, Sep 11, 2008.

  1. GReaper

    GReaper Resident Freddy

    Out of curiosity, is anyone else concerned at the state of RvR combat?

    Quite a few times Mythic increased the TTK (time to kill) over all the classes during certain beta stages, mostly due to feedback from people saying they died too quickly in RvR. After playing a bit yesterday it just feels screwed up, with players lasting far too long and even casters being an absolute pain to kill.

    I know that DAoC combat wasn't perfect, mostly with too much crowd control, an awful interrupt system and certain classes dropping like flies - but to me it seems that WAR has gone too far in the opposite direction! Very little crowd control because they don't want to upset users forced to stand still and slow damage on other players so they don't die too quickly. At times it's an absolute pain to try and get a target down

    I can't fully judge what end game combat will be like due to the fact that there has been such limited testing of it, but is anyone not keen on combat in RvR as it stands?
  2. dee777

    dee777 Loyal Freddie

    I think the upgraded TTK and the lowered CC duration were very good decisions based on my experiences in tier1. Of course to judge it terminally, we ll need to play in endgame gear, with endgame abilities in endgame skirmishes.

    So far I like it.
  3. Manisch Depressiv

    Manisch Depressiv Part of the furniture

    Even a heavy tank in DAoC, with top gear, good RAs like AoM4 and IP2 dropped too fast.

    The combat in DAOC was not not perfect but fubared.

    50% resist debuffs, 9 second melee stuns, grappling, red stat debuffs, ABS debuffs...

    The longer the fights take the better, gives one opportunity to correct mistakes and the better players will still win, just later :p.
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Jupitus

    Jupitus Old and short, no wonder I'm grumpy! Staff member Moderator FH Subscriber

    Shit! :(

    Jup in agreeing with manisch shocker :twak::ninja:
  5. pez

    pez Can't get enough of FH

    I think the kill speed is ok, its just in tier 1 its too easy to run to the nearest lvl 55 guards. In the higher tiers it looks like there will be less NPC guards, more space and hopefully better fights.
  6. Draylor

    Draylor Part of the furniture

    If someone judged DAOCs RvR system based on 5minutes in Thidranki youd probably call them stupid.

    Isnt this exactly what we're doing here?
  7. GReaper

    GReaper Resident Freddy

    Yes, however..

    There is an entire RvR game from level 1, every tier has RvR zones. You can't really ignore everything under level 40 because it isn't endgame, every tier has RvR areas and RvR objectives. You can't dismiss how the game is balanced at lower tiers because the contribution of lower tiers actually helps the higher level tiers.
  8. Case

    Case Fledgling Freddie

    I think kill speed feels about right, dps classes kill fast others don`t.
  9. Libh

    Libh Fledgling Freddie

    try playing a dps class... and consider that t1 is'nt endgame.. most fm/scorc's dont even have thier root leveled up yet and later on allmost every class gets a stun if they spec for it.

    I like the way rvr works. The detaunt/taunt mechanics makes for some interesting teamwork :)
  10. Mumia

    Mumia Fledgling Freddie

    Sorry if my reply seems a bit over the top, but I have had my share over the past 2½ years of melee fighters in wow whining about how they didnt feel superior to the spellcasters and how they would like to be able to oneshot them for the fun of it, and since blizzard decided that that was okay, they nerfed every spellcaster to the point where I simply left. I truely hope warhammer will not go that way also. If it takes 5 minutes to kill a single player, fine by me, its the fight I find fun, not the killing, and I love the fights in warhammer.
    Please do not start the : "My class is bigger/stronger/more this and that, and I want to have the fun of destroying other players fun" thread type, that is what 60% or more of blizzards official forums is filled with.
    In a fair game, all classes have equal killing power, and it should be the actual playstyle that determines if you win or loose, not your class/gear/weapon/level or other unfair influences.
    You dont see one football team using hands/motorbikes/machineguns/landmines against another team do you now? Would'nt be fair now, would it?
    Lets keep warhammer balanced, something that blizzard hasnt managed with wow even after patching over more than 4 years now.
    Sorry for ranting, just gets me upset when people demand unfair advantages over others and tries to make it sound casual and okay at the same time.
  11. Chrismorris

    Chrismorris Fledgling Freddie

    testing a BW in OB, one on one i get owned very fast against a melee class
  12. Zede

    Zede Part of the furniture

    really, less wow whine - you have zero, i repeat zero clue on wow.
  13. Zede

    Zede Part of the furniture

    cannot comment on the overall gameplay, to early to tell.

    have played approx 15 rvr instance battles, not one has has equal numbers on either side - either you win easy or lose easy right now.

    the chaos instance is big - yet they have all 3 bases within like 1 minute run of each other - which is mega crap, need to spead them out more and discourage zerging
  14. Spookie

    Spookie Fledgling Freddie

    T2 is massive.

    Takes pfft... 5-7 mins to run from one end to the other at least. Points are spread out and keeps take ages to capture.

    The idea was the RvR zones slowly increase throughout the game to the point in t4 where they encompass 3/4 of the zone. :)
  15. pez

    pez Can't get enough of FH

    He's talking about the Scenarios, which I assume also increase in size as the tiers go up, although perhaps not to the extent the battlefields do.
  16. Warmcat

    Warmcat Fledgling Freddie

    Well my Empire Warrior Priest goes down in 3-5 seconds when 2v1 at equal levels... so don't know what you are all talking about!
    PVP lasts far far less time than another mmo that I play ;-)
  17. rynnor

    rynnor Rockhound Moderator

    I dont think it takes too long to kill people - I have seen folk go down almost instanly from coordinated ranged attacks and mage types feel pretty vulnerable which offsets their dps.

    Tier 1 wont bear that much resemblance to endgame though as theirs progressively more cc as people level.

    I agree with the not judging daoc by looking at thid - no doubt classes will crossover in relative power - should be fun :)
  18. fiire

    fiire Fledgling Freddie

    ye but if your left alone in a group fight you can do some good damage :)

    BW forthewin
  19. Chrismorris

    Chrismorris Fledgling Freddie

    I love the AOE fireball, so much damage.

    shame im going SW on sunday ;) (didnt step into the elf lands in CB or OB once because of it)
  20. Spookie

    Spookie Fledgling Freddie

    Ah sorry, yeah they do get bigger. The modes vary greatly too.
  21. Tilda

    Tilda Moderator Moderator

    Its fine, 1 person takes a while, but people still drop fast to assist trains.
  22. Xanthea

    Xanthea Fledgling Freddie

    The gfx sucks i think and the pvp is uhm...well thinking of that they made daoc and that atleast was top solo/group etc pvp...nice gfx and so on i think WaR is a major setback.

    Was hoping for alot more than a WoW clone from mythic, Not sure but i do belive that wotlk will piss on WaR and im not a WoW fan but i know blizzard has money/talent to do great things..

    A bit also from the past experience, most things EA is involved in goes bad, time will tell however how it goes.Not that i hope WaR will go down the drain but dosent feel the game suits me and had higher hopes on it.

    Some might say "how the fuck can you tell after 2-3 days beta" well most ppl can i think, You know when you enter a game / play it you feel pretty mutch instant if the game is like WAAAAAOoooo omg that so cool or if you get the feeling doh wtf is this...Most cool that happend was the dog farted and i had to rush out from the room.
  23. Cordain

    Cordain Fledgling Freddie

    I dont know about graphics as i tend to like the actual game more than the eye candy. Besides id take smooth fps over shaders any day.

    At these levels the kill speed seems good. If you get trained your going down almost instantly while 1vs1 feel good. If your doing healer vs. healer fights the fault is yours, not the games.

    Some prefer the way the WOW is developing its PvP, or eSport as they would like to call it. Personally i feel its the opposite im looking from MMO's. Slow kill speed rewards cooperation and tactics, making it great for people with guilds and voice coms. I can see how it could feel boring to those who prefer to play MMO's solo.
  24. killfest

    killfest Fledgling Freddie

    I really don't know why people don't like th graphics on this game... since when do people buy MMO's for graphics? i mean look at wow.. you telling me that not having brilliant graphics has made that less popular... yeah i know it's a few years old now but they are still making expansions for it and people are still buying it...

    Anyway as for the RVR i quite like the way it works... it rewards tactics as apposed to who sees the other player first... even during the beta ive seen the better team in RVR being the ones who know when to rereat and regroup rather than just letting themselves be killed because they have no chance to escape...
  25. Cadelin

    Cadelin Part of the furniture

    The game still has balance at the lower levels. The classes get their abilities at the same levels. Its quite crude balancing but it should still be fairly balanced at the low levels and the contribution from the lower levels doesn't help that much.

    At the lower levels the learning curve has been reduced. It does take alot longer to kill something but that allows the in-experienced players to at least try some of their abilities before they are killed. I think alot of people will find that the lower level RvR is a bit too slow but they will find things get faster and more competitive at the higher tiers.
  26. Zede

    Zede Part of the furniture

    even with new pvp content, wow is still wow. the wow community have absolutely no idea of world pvp, none, zero, ziltch. ive done more fun world pvp in 1 day on war then in my 127 days played on my wow main, so go figure. its not a wow clone, its a daoc 2 - if anything.

    you dont really know what your talking about do you.

    to those who dont know the daoc freddys community - we are somewhat vocal.
  27. Ivynoxia

    Ivynoxia Can't get enough of FH

    I think it was a mistake to release open beta without options for high end computers/high res textures, people treat betas as demos for the game and expect pretty modern graphics these day.

    But rest assured you will get in-game options for shadows, HDR and AA/AF at retail and beyond. And also higher res textures.
  28. Xanthea

    Xanthea Fledgling Freddie

    Would not even compare daoc with WaR or adress it as daoc 2..

    That is just utterly bullshit, not same theme, build on totally diffrent timezones/scales.they have 1 thing in comon "both from mythic" so beside that and the experience mythic have/had from daoc you probably see some in WaR from it. and that is how close they get to another.

    And WoW i dident defend WoW, but blizzard from what i read are implanting open world rvr, and if you look at the past Blizzard VS Mythic only thing mythic has managed is the rvr aspect.blizzard has ALOT of older heavy titles, starcraft,diablo,wow and so on.

    WoW i dont think is to mutch about pvp at all AV is more or less run as fast as you can from point A to B and sack one guy and you win..But who know's they might got something going.

    I agree on the gfx part, i dont buy/play a game "mainly" from gfx i played UO in 2d and that damn rocked hardcore, but i do think it is 2008 and a game should not look like some blurry muppetshow
  29. Roo Stercogburn

    Roo Stercogburn Resident Freddy

    Blizzard's idea of open world RvR is a couple of zones with no effect on the rest of the game playing world combined with some siege engines and destructable keeps.

    And thats pretty much it.

    Nice PvE in WoW...and thats it. I've played it since closed beta and they've not delivered one decent epic PvP promse yet and they still won't in WotLK.
  30. krilly

    krilly Fledgling Freddie

    once upon a time yes

    recently they've put out some great games like Mass Effect & Spore and hopefull Warhammer

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