The Radar thingy...

[Karl [DAOC]]

Does ne1 know.. can it be traced?

AFAIK (not having used it) it runs as a sniffer program on ur network... cos if its thats all it is then how the hell do they trace it (cos everybody tells me it can be traced)...

Or does it actually transmit to the servers anything?

Not that im planing to use it. just intrested on how it is traced :/

Karl

 

[old.Tzeentch]

they test you with CSRs and shit in the usa
dont know how it works here tho

 

[cjkaceBM]

There are a couple of radar programs about the most famous of which is Odin' Eye (now known as Daocunleashed).

This is based on Xunleashed which use DirectX to create 'features' in DX based games that don't exist - maps, radar etc.

Basically the DAoC server sends all info to your PC for things in your, zone which the plug-in for Xunleashed for DAoC, interprets and creates your map/radar etc.

Is it therefore detectable at the server end?

I would say not, simply because it is using data that you have already downloaded and that your DAoC client is continuously requesting.

PS I was curious how it worked too so went and had a look. Good old google

 

[old.FIN]

Well i hope it is detectable, becuase its a gay thing.

and yes , u can find it inside 2 mins if u wanna =(

so if it aint detectable, and peeps will know it, then u will be sure that 25-50% peeps starts using it, and then game is ruined, and what we peeps who r not using it should make a law suit against mythic/goa to robbing our moneys and gaming fun because not taking effort to take cheats of from game.

Have done in some online games and it has 2 ways, game ends, or they do something about it.

Just remember cheating in game ruins the game, ruins the game company , ruins the players fun, ruins online gaming, and then when u think back what time, money and effort u have put to 1 game, and then u r thinking why play online games what costs u anymore. and then it also grows piratism, because u dont wanna pay anymore from playing online games, u r not rdy to pay games either, and when u have got those all for free, u start thinking also that what the heck, peeps cheat on this game, and it was free to me, so i will find some cheat and start playing the game, because with out them u cant play the game, because every1 cheats, its just snowball effect, will go bigger and bigger, and also it will raise game prices, montly dues, etc etc.

Lets just hope Mythic/Goa does something, and FAST, and also informs it to all peeps, i would make it delete account asap, and u can t pay with that credit card no more mythic games!

And also make the name public!!!

 

[-yoda-]

afaik it cant be detected . i hope Goa/Mythic can sort out a proggy of there own to detect it . cos cheats suck and should all be insta banned and have there acc deleted .

 

[old.Varg]

It wouldn't be too hard implementing semi-automatic radar detection heuristics.

Such a system could feed false data to suspected radar users and statistically determine if those suspected radar users are in fact using radar.

Would be a fun hack

 

[old.Odysseus]

probably cant be detected as its 'passive', it does not touch the packets, only inspects them.
i would think hardcoded methods are required to find such things - looking at running service and program names, inspecting disk for some specific files etc. (which mythic has stated they wont).

 

[Elric IA]

Originally posted by old.Varg
It wouldn't be too hard implementing semi-automatic radar detection heuristics.

Such a system could feed false data to suspected radar users and statistically determine if those suspected radar users are in fact using radar.

Would be a fun hack

Supposedly Mythic do that by creating 'players' and putting them into a hill where they cannot be seen and watching for people running for them.

 

[old.Odysseus]

That could handle single incidents, but if a large portion of the population suddenly uses radar, its no longer viable.

 

[Gohlanchdir]

LOL i am so glad i know more than you guys. Goa has a way of trapping players using this, and it works....so all you cheaters watch out. Detectable, well not yet :-( We did some tries at work(i work at a computer security firm....well that and the some work at the docks.....like the secomp firm best i think) but none of our expertice could track atleast, but the boss thought it was phunny so we are still trying to find a way to track it, by perhaps adding a few files in a patch or so......I`ll tell you and GOA if we manage!!


Shivadur E&E member of Hib/Exc

 

[old.Odysseus]

LOL i am so glad i know more than you guys

yesyes ure clever.
kthxbye

 

[old.Prof]

Odin's Eye is NOT detectable and due to it's nature probably never will ...

It's rather unclear how widely it is used, but "it is said" that on USA servers its use is pretty widespread, not in the least on PvP servers.

I remember running regurally into people using it back when I played on Pellinor, and since then its use will only have become more widespread. Seemingly it's used a lot less on euro servers, but that could change ...

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by Gohlanchdir
LOL i am so glad i know more than you guys. Goa has a way of trapping players using this, and it works....so all you cheaters watch out. Detectable, well not yet :-( We did some tries at work(i work at a computer security firm....well that and the some work at the docks.....like the secomp firm best i think) but none of our expertice could track atleast, but the boss thought it was phunny so we are still trying to find a way to track it, by perhaps adding a few files in a patch or so......I`ll tell you and GOA if we manage!!


Shivadur E&E member of Hib/Exc

roll on quantum computing look at the packet and it changes

I doubt they can detect the software in use (unless they started installing spyware through patches... but they've said they'll never do that), but you can certainly spoof the radar and watch people react.

 

[old.LandShark]

omg physics jokes a new low! or is that high

 

[Sibanac]

There is no way they can ever make a patch to detect odins eye, spyware or no spyware
Its just a linux sniffer it does not have to be on the same machine as daoc, hell iut would be rather hard to have it on the same machine, juts on the same subnet.

All it does is look at the trafic passing over the network

For sending fake data, of hiden players, all you would need to detect that would be maps with height in aswell

Only solutions i can think of is using strong encryption on the links. but that would require a lot more cpu power from the servers and clients and thus is not realy practical



AND NO i havent used it, but i am a network engeneer and looked at the homepage of the project

 

[Karl [DAOC]]

Originally posted by Fingoniel


roll on quantum computing look at the packet and it changes

^^ heh

>> yeah tis a linux program, well the one i was looking at, and all it does is sniff afaik, and as it is not on the same machine i dont think they could od a file trace etc,

intresting, so hence me wondering how, seems that most of u say it cant be detected by means other then tricking the player.

 

[-Wedge-]

Odin's Eye cant be detected other then placing fake mobs in the area and check if you run at them... Mythic already does this btw... I'm not sure if GOA does... Odin's Eye (as said) sniffs the packages send by DAOC and displays them on screen... You need a 2nd computer for this that runs on the same hub-network (note hub, since it wont work easy with a switch)... And some Linux knowledge...

DAOC Unleashed works differently, and people in US have already been banned by using this program... DAOC Unleashed reads memory instead of intercepting packages... I dont know how Mythic 'detected' the use of DAOC Unleashed, but its not hard... Also for DAOC Unleashed doesnt require a 2nd PC, since it displays a on-screen radar in-game... Any one could do this...

Personally, I think everyone using this in RvR is a complete wanker... Never actually tried either of them (but yea, I looked at them, wondered how they work)... But I dont see the harm in people using this in PvE, like i give a rats ass which level a mob is... If its orange or lower, its dead (and I know most level ranges from albion mobs from printed maps, etc)

In PvE its not much different then using a printed map(99% of the mobs are at static places)... In PvP(e.g. RvR) its definitly a way to get an advantage and if I know if someone uses it, I'll report the damn critter myself...

 

[old.Nol]

Well i hope it is detectable, becuase its a gay thing.

That closet making it hard for you to breathe? is it airtight? no oxygen to the brain? Maybe you should get out of it...

 

[old.Zanaa]

After playing quite alot solo and in small teams hiding in the underbrush (as lurikeens do), it is quite clear that not many people are using these cheat programs on euro yet. I can only recall a few times that it looked suspicious. There is a certain shadowblade in DF entrance who seem to be able to sniff when highlevs come from adjectant rooms over and over again...but at most occations when ppl find you altho they shouldn't, its just luck.

 

[quinthar]

Erm, a Hub better than a switch???

What about all the switches the data uses to get to your PC??

I use a 100MB Switched network piped into my router the rest is subnetted out.

The amount of data generated by DAoC is minimal compared to what a switch or even a hub for that matter could handle.

I suspect I could run it quite easily, I run 2 Linux servers both more than capable of running in promiscuous mode with several stream captures, But then again its just a game.

To Cheats:
If you have to cheat to win, then yer a loser....kinda defeats the object dont ya think?

Classic (Mythical quote) "See how easy I kill these ugly invaders, I got tons of cheats running, I must be 1337"

cheats=losers

 

[Elric IA]

Originally posted by old.Odysseus


yesyes ure clever.
kthxbye

He is you know!

 

[Cloak_]

STOP CHEATING U MOTHERF*&?ERS I DIE ENOUGH AS IT IS !!

 

[amphetamine]

i know some people who use to use it, all but one have left the game but the one thats left is in the top 5 rp earners on excal

give u something to think about heheh

and no i wont mention his name before u ask.

Mythic detect it by getting CSR's to hide in places where no-one can see them and watch for the people to run towards them spots, there is quite an interesting story regarding Lum tthe Mad who was a big UO player who got banned on suspition of using this.

 

[old.Odysseus]

and no i wont mention his name before u ask.

what is his name?

(and more importantly - can u prove it?)

 

[amphetamine]

Originally posted by old.Odysseus

what is his name?

(and more importantly - can u prove it?)

how can i prove something that is not detectable without human testing

as stated i can give names of the people who used it i dunno if he still does but i know he did and as before no names mentioned.

 

[Mageling]

Harmony

Best action mythic can do is incorporate the map thing (radar) into the game, thus removing the advantage it gives the ‘sucky players (cheaters). We all know that they will get bitchslapped when they are on equal terms. Course this’d just be my absurdly unpitched half cents.

 

[Flimgoblin]

unfortunately doing that kind of removes any tactics of 'sneaking up from behind' etc.

you could make anyone not in view 'stealthed' but then a bit of lag would be horrendous...

encrypting the packets would be a start I guess....

 

[Sibanac]

Originally posted by quinthar
Erm, a Hub better than a switch???

Becuase if you use a switch your 2np pc will never see the packets unless it is routing them to that swith, if that is not the case the only other option is to spoof the MAC on the sniffer to that of the game machine, so that the switch also sends the packets to that machine, i would advice against that since that will fuck up your network

 

[Mageling]

Maybe

Make the map update slowly, like once every three minutes or so. Maybe just give different classes, like rangers etc, larger map area coverage. Meanwhile none scouting classes receive reduced line of sight. If possible, then there are many parameters that could be assigned.

 

[Flimgoblin]

true, true, good points there mageling