The paradox of Skill and RPs

[[NO]Subedai]

just look at girsakhs and Horner, 2 examples of people who play all the time and are rr11 and still have no clue

 

[Marchus]

Well, my reaver is rr10, but I am not that good. I am too lazy to play good, I have so many stuff to save my ass (ip, sq, etc...).
rr8-rr9l8 was my best times, when I played good in solo. Tbh I was almost always crap in groups, cos I need some1 to follow in assist so I won't go suicide into the enemy group...
I could be better, but cba for it. Was only playing with friends after rr10 anyway, and no need skill for it.

 

[noaim]

hahah, i'd of expected you to say something a little more wiser then that konah, you know as well as I do how limited warguard is, its no where near an iwin button. Its not even as good as OF soldiers barricade.

No you are right, armsman does indeed require alot of skill in 1 on 1 fights vs other melee classes.

 

[Gustav]

just look at girsakhs and Horner, 2 examples of people who play all the time and are rr11 and still have no clue

Lol...giwsakhs is a huge contributor to our midgard realm. Don't lump him into the same box as Horner. Its like comparing Evander Holyfield and Jocky Wilson. Yes they are both sportsmen but which would you back in a fight?

 

[pip]

just look at girsakhs and Horner, 2 examples of people who play all the time and are rr11 and still have no clue

lol can't even spell 1 of there names maybe you get a clue

 

[Baalur]

lol can't even spell 1 of there names maybe you get a clue

Relevant...

 

[~Latency~]

1v1 is the most skillless thing there is, just a matter of which ras/artifacts you dump and which class you're fighting - vs some classes you have a much lower chance of winning pre-set no matter what you do

 

[Bracken]

Its like comparing Evander Holyfield and Jocky Wilson. Yes they are both sportsmen but which would you back in a fight?

Jocky Wilson. Atleast he's still got both his ears

 

[Cemeterygates]

err, many people who play in fg's are or have been very good soloers. that comment is just beyond silly really

there are so many more factors in 8v8 that decide a win compared to a 1v1. on my scout, playing perfect means starting with the right style (side asd), or a nice critshot, rest of the fight is just a sequence of using the right styles and abilities at the right time.

after the initial preparation of equipment and having charges up, the actual fights are quite straightforward. the one thing that adds a huge dimension to the fight is using movement. strafing, runthrough and the countering of those are for a large part dependant on how well the other is able to move, use game mechanics and time it. there is no optimal sequence to move around, it varies in every fight and depends on every player.

there is however an optimal sequence of hitting styles and abilities. its easily possible to counter every ability correctly, and use all styles correctly, but still lose. this is due to the large impact of class difference, equipment and various other abilities.

i would say doing the right things in a 1v1 fight is a direct display of the skills of a player, especially if one person controls movement better, but still you are missing the key factors i mentioned earlier:

positioning, communication and ability to think for other people.

in a 8v8 fight you can use all styles the right way, hit all abilities at the right time, but there are still a million things that can go wrong. for example:

- positioning
- communication
- ability to counter or use melee lag

in a 8v8 you can't stick someone and use shit. positioning is extremely important, i could say so much about it but id say its quite obvious. if you're at the wrong spot you die, and where you are standing or moving to is dependant on 15 other players and many other factors. it proves to be VERY hard to be at the right position for most players. > this is not a factor in 1v1 fights, in any way, except to avoid adds.

next to that, you play with 7 other people. you need them, they need you. here's a few factors that are important when playing with those, none of which apply to 1v1's:

- making sure you are in range when you ask for something, cures or buffs for example. wasting their time running all over the fight to help you puts your support and entire group in danger
- making sure to listen and look carefully when your support has time to give you what you need. its their job to prioritise, but if you KNOW they have more important things to do then you have to wait a bit, and then ask.
- making sure what you do is always what the group knows you are doing, if exceptions, mention it. if you are pushing forward on another group and some people get rooted, its a must to stop pushing and wait it out. if your main source of interrupts is disabled, it has to be mentioned so other people take over.
- think for the people who play with you directly. melee MA should call which type of assist he needed: caster (for targets bg'd or otherwise unhittable with melee), melee (if the caster was easily hittable, needed the champ to snare/stun the target, etc). also, if there was no point in assisting (many mages free, banelords down, enemies too spread out, bof active, etc) there was a call to split up train. next to that, against bd's for example, staj would qc a matter debuff and tanks would swap to matter legendary. that can only be done through good communication, that involves 4 people (2 tanks, debuffer + second mage)

casters in a group always need to know what the others are currently doing and what they are capable of. knowing if the other is interrupted, oop, debuffed in some way, their position, etc, is extremely important.

- 'basic' things: saying when a target is buffsheared, saying who is interrupted, saying who needs help with pets, saying which target is cc'd, saying which pet is on which enemy, saying when you are going to need heals, etccccccccccccc

there is so much more, but i think you get the point. ill promise you that if i slap you awake in the middle of the night you can rattle up all the values that decide a win or loss in 1v1, but if you would try do the same for 8v8, you would be at it for hours and still forget stuff.

sorry for the long post - yes, i am quite bored.

i agree with using what u have got at the right time 100% tbh mate an i know ur good at doin it...fought your scout before...slammed me...few free styles....purge was down...then zephyr...an i was fucked...but when i get purge2 an rr5 things might be a bit different

 

[censi]

there is definetly skill in this 8v8 thing

I proved this on my bain. I sucked donkey balls. crap keys, no idea about positioning etc

 

[Vodkafairy]

i agree with using what u have got at the right time 100% tbh mate an i know ur good at doin it...fought your scout before...slammed me...few free styles....purge was down...then zephyr...an i was fucked...but when i get purge2 an rr5 things might be a bit different

yeah was fun - was also fun to fight a champ by using phaseshift after slam, so id resist all debuffs, then cancelling it and continuing the fight.

 

[Kagato]

No you are right, armsman does indeed require alot of skill in 1 on 1 fights vs other melee classes.

More then you'll ever need.

 

[Cemeterygates]

yeah was fun - was also fun to fight a champ by using phaseshift after slam, so id resist all debuffs, then cancelling it and continuing the fight.

ye...i dont have a lot of toys to play with tbh...not even rr5...ml3...no cl's done an i don thave a temp as such...just thrown together what i can for cheap so would be cool to fight ya again when i got more stuff at my disposal

 

[Shike]

Lol...giwsakhs is a huge contributor to our midgard realm. Don't lump him into the same box as Horner. Its like comparing Evander Holyfield and Jocky Wilson. Yes they are both sportsmen but which would you back in a fight?

Huhu, I'd place both in same category as Magon anyway

 

[mithridatis :)]

Warlocks, Bone dancers, hib casters are one-two button classes.

You need much skill to play those or gain much experiense playing that hard classes?

 

[Octo]

Not too hard to see the diffrence between ezmoders and people with a clue. Some survive only on teamm8s/setup, some keep their team afloat or do just as good without perfect groupsetup.
As for 1v1 - Too many cooldowns. For example "omg MoC LTLTLT lol IWON"-sorc

 

[Leel]

Spiritmaster IS easy-mode for soloing, atleast against visible tank-classes.

Agree, my rr3 sm died a lot to dual wield stealthers before I got moc 1. With moc 1, it looks like it's almost a guaranteed win. And that's without factoring in qc pbaoe mez, no runthrough is gonna help you against that. Still haven't fought you though puppet, only once before I got moc 1, and you destroyed me hehe.

 

[Elrandhir]

Warlocks, Bone dancers, hib casters are one-two button classes.

You need much skill to play those or gain much experiense playing that hard classes?

Don't even start compairing Hib casters with Warlocks and BD's
not saying they it's hard playing a caster really, But still none is close to those classes.
Im playing an Eldritch and it's far from being an 1-2 button class, still only Hib mage I Enjoy playing really as it has some utility.

 

[Konah]

not saying they it's hard playing a caster really

think its a tiny bit easier when u can stun em for 8s. stops minor annoyances like them fighting back or getting out of range, stuff like that

 

[Elrandhir]

think its a tiny bit easier when u can stun em for 8s. stops minor annoyances like them fighting back or getting out of range, stuff like that

Give me lifetap with 90%hp back in each tap instead and Il take the root/mezz or whatever instead then and a pet with 70% intercept why not, or some insta lifedrain maby, or maby like the sorc, everything.

I think you can have the stunn if I get some of those things tbh.
the stunn is good for sure, but no way is it better then all the crap some mages has.

 

[Ilur-OOM]

rps = time invested, aswell as how efficient the rp gain has been.
time invested = knowledge and skill, but only partly.

there is very skilled low rr players and very clueless high rr ones - but i feel the number of absolute best, most sharp and most skilled players is only a very small number.

Totally agree here...

so many high rr clueless chars arround then again, some low rr's are very skilled players... Many low rr players today are players that played another realm or played the game for long and some how gave up on it coming back recently to a new or the same class... though they are low and lack some of the RAs they outskill any ebayed char and many even not ebayed ones a lot higher than this... i just had an example of this this weekend with a long time alb mate that went to mid and now rerolled back in alb with is new theurg.

 

[Zebolt]

There's also different ways to be skilled. Some might be a very gifted killer and others very good at supporting and some might be both. Some classes/specs only require you to be skilled in one area while others require you to be skilled in several to be thought of as skilled. All classes are different and therefore some classes are easier to be thought skilled with than others.

From my point of view the basics on a caster if you wanna be known as skilled. POSITIONING is everyting, reaction and targeting is also important but also much easier. If you master the art of positioning the rest will follow :>

 

[pip]

There's also different ways to be skilled. Some might be a very gifted killer and others very good at supporting and some might be both. Some classes/specs only require you to be skilled in one area while others require you to be skilled in several to be thought of as skilled. All classes are different and therefore some classes are easier to be thought skilled with than others.

From my point of view the basics on a caster if you wanna be known as skilled. POSITIONING is everyting, reaction and targeting is also important but also much easier. If you master the art of positioning the rest will follow :>

Yes very true patience is a virtue even back in the true battles of years gone by, you never want to be the first 1 to hit the front line