"The holocaust, far worse than one led you to believe"

[rynnor]

If I can be racist to a scot or frenchman who are practically genetically identical to me why shouldnt the jewish people also be a race? Irish travellers are a race yet genetically identical to other Irish people in their hometowns.

Race is not a real characteristic that can be measured - its a legal mechanism to protect groups that society/government wishes to protect.

Edit - In the UK some of it is also messed up by the history of the Law - initially we only had anti-racist laws which didnt protect Religions so to extend the protection judges ruled certain religions were actually races - thats why race is a particularly messed up concept in the UK.

 

[DaGaffer]

You can't be "racist" to jews - because they're demonstrably not a "race". You can be anti-semitic - which is not racism. It's hatred of jews because of their beliefs and the way they choose to live. It's not because of the way they look*.

I know what you're getting at, and I've argued the same thing in the past (its "culturalism" not racism etc.), but ultimately it doesn't matter. In fact holding racist views purely on the basis of how someone looks, rather than their culture and beliefs, is the most moronic type of racism of all (since its the one thing about a person that doesn't affect you). Ironically, in the case of the Jews, your case falls down a bit because their looks were used by the Nazis as one of the reasons for their untermensch status. The hook-nose Shylock stereotype was standard stuff, even though, as you point out, most Jews didn't look like that at all (in the same way the Black Americans never looked like Jim Crow or Mammy).

 

[Scouse]

Oh the irony, rynnor

To explain:

If I can be racist to a scot or frenchman who are practically genetically identical to me why shouldnt the jewish people also be a race?

That's mostly down to the lazy hazy definition of race. You're being a nationalistic cunt rather than "racist" per se - but that's why it's messy.

There's still an easily identifiable "label" you're attaching to people - where they're from - and you can only be racist towards them once you've found that that's the case (the scottish or french accents - the "sounds funny" case that I made in my last post).

Jewish people don't come from anywhere*. They're spending huge financial efforts trying to define themselves as a race to help them keep that plot of land...


Israel - bullshit from the word go.

But to be fair - the notion of nations is bullshit power-trip anyway. Demonstrably so. But watching this particular religious and power-inspired tragedy play out in all it's murderous glory is something that particularly ires me. It's a fucking disgrace.




*any more than catholics do. It's a feature of religion that missionaries fuck off from where their religion was founded and spread it. The basic untruth of religion means that you can't reliably tell who's dirty basement the "seed" was actually germinated in. Couple that with the arbitrary lines that are drawn on maps by power-hungry fucktards and the basic unreliability of history then it's anyones guess to within a couple of thousand miles where judaeism was started. And even if that was all incorrect and we knew to the inch where the "jews" were from - it would still be a pile of bullshit that's totally unsuitable to form the basis of any sort of land dispute - period.

 

[rynnor]

I repeat we could tomorrow declare scousers were a race - its just a legal definition - it needs no basis in reality.

 

[Job]

This thread is remaining amazingly polite and constructive...well done everybody....so exactlty what IS the evidence for the holocaust...givens its an offence to question the facts...they must be either undeniable or very flimsy.

So

 

[DaGaffer]

This thread is remaining amazingly polite and constructive...well done everybody....so exactlty what IS the evidence for the holocaust...givens its an offence to question the facts...they must be either undeniable or very flimsy.

So

The former. My great Uncle was one of the first British soldiers into Belsen. He very rarely mentioned it (and never to me or my brother), but he told my grandfather exactly what it was like. It affected him so deeply he spent the rest of his life doing charity work for victims of genocide (he was awarded the BEM for it and we didn't even know until after he died).

 

[Scouse]

I repeat we could tomorrow declare scousers were a race - its just a legal definition - it needs no basis in reality.

I'd like to agree with that - and there's a lot of substance to what you said - race is in many ways a made-up thing. But I can't.

You'd be ridiculed if you tried to do that. People would openly disagree with you and it wouldn't be taken up.

The evidence against you is how hard the jews are working to get themselves recognised as a race in itself. Not by any official lobby - just "in the minds of the general population" - which is where in reality "race" exists.

They're spending a LOT of money to achieve this baloney aim - and it's quite successful. But it's still bullshit.

This thread is remaining amazingly polite and constructive...

Toht's not about

 

[rynnor]

You'd be ridiculed if you tried to do that. People would openly disagree with you and it wouldn't be taken up.

It would be the law - it doesnt have to be popular - you just need to start plugging why scousers are a race apart with their own traditions/dialect/music.

Its no more invalid than other groups like irish travellers.

 

[Tuthmes]

This thread is remaining amazingly polite and constructive...well done everybody....so exactlty what IS the evidence for the holocaust...givens its an offence to question the facts...they must be either undeniable or very flimsy.

So

Well I've been to Buchenwald, my sisters went to Auschwitz. Both my grandparents spoke of (all the) jews that dissapeared and never returned. What exactly is there to question about the holocaust? Seeing as there is a lot of documentation and photo's, leave alone (some of) the places still exist today.

 

[Job]

I guess the 'deniers' can hardly be questioning that people weren't exterminated, they are claiming a whole scale exaggeration of the numbers, surely there must be records of families lost, you can't kill 6 million people without leaving a huge hole somewhere in the paperwork, but I personally have never see anyone come up with actual hard facts, seeing the camps must have been awful, but surely someone has definite proof.
My stepfathers dad was a POW in the war and he made a model ship from ciggie packet lead and soap, they returned the whole thing in 1986 ,it just came in the post with some other personal papers.

 

[Raven]

The deniers are usually either mad or simple. Or a combination of both.

 

[Lamp]

You might want to read this harrowing account. Oh, but maybe this book was never written...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Holocaust-Jewish-Tragedy-Martin-Gilbert/dp/0006371949

 

[Tuthmes]

The paperwork (atleast for the Netherlands) has always bin there. If you want to live somewhere (get born) you need to register yourself. If you want to travel abroad you need a passport. Thats all they needed. Registering in the camps whas done by looks if there was a need for it at all. Camps like Treblinka, Sobibor hade only 1 purpose.

As for records:
http://www.joodsmonument.nl/?lang=en

Click on a pixel and it will show the person(s) name(s) (family), date of birth and death. Even inventory of households in some cases.

 

[Zenith]

Wait, what the fuck is going on in this thread!

 

[Scouse]

Wait, what the fuck is going on in this thread!

Polite discussion.

I know, I know. It's phukking phreaky

 

[fettoken]

Guys guys. Basically, you are blowing this out of proportion. To be sincere, I was ranting to begin with. Not knowing the history of the Jew very well. I do not "hate" these people based on some petty things as looks. I respect people on a very basic level, they can believe in whatever they want.

Having read about a certain kind of nationality of people, choosing this faith as a benefactor to getting rich. These same kind of people did during WW1 sabotage Germany, destabilising Europe by doing so. This, building up to WW2. I believe being one of the reasons for WW2. Also, many Jews got rich on weapons manufacturing during WW2, but I guess who didn't.

Following this crisis, the same people got bought Israel. My rant was not generally sweeping towards all "Jews".

Also, calling me a racist is unfair. I am just very judgemental xD

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Oh god you've bought the nazi propaganda that Jews cost them the war (first). Fucking hell. Facepalm ahoy!

 

[fettoken]

No. I have no knowledge of WW1, so I wouldn't comment on anything concerning that.

Anything else is just pretty obvious. Calling it Nazi propaganda, were you born yesterday?

 

[Gwadien]

Russians are also sub-human aren't they?

 

[Gwadien]

No. I have no knowledge of WW1, so I wouldn't comment on anything concerning that.

These same kind of people did during WW1 sabotage Germany, destabilising Europe by doing so.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

This is hugely embarrasing for you fet. Either admit you're talking shit, utterly predjudiced, or completely ignorant about the situation tbh. Stop trying to dig your way out.

 

[Gwadien]

This is hugely embarrasing for you fet. Either admit you're talking shit, utterly predjudiced, or completely ignorant about the situation tbh. Stop trying to dig your way out.

Or, the fact Wazz and I are 'Agreeing' with each other, is a pointer that you're probably really really wrong.

 

[fettoken]

Yes yes, there was one line concerning that. But it is still believable. And still wouldn't call it nazi propaganda.

 

[fettoken]

This is hugely embarrasing for you fet. Either admit you're talking shit, utterly predjudiced, or completely ignorant about the situation tbh. Stop trying to dig your way out.

Hugely embarrassing because? You have 100% stone proof evidence that my beliefs are incorrect?

Also judging your past posts YOU seem to be a really judgemental, foul-mouthed bitter cunt. Name calling when people are not in line with your beliefs.

BUT, I know nothing of who you are. Your age , or anything else. So I guess you could be a really cuddly fellow irl?

 

[Job]

You can say 'you're wrong, admit it' all you like , but without the facts to back up your version, you are just spouting the consensus.
Though he might well be slightly skewed by the tin hat brigade.

 

[fettoken]

Hey, I actually reserved the right to use a tin hat in this thread.

 

[DaGaffer]

OK, show us some documented evidence that "The Jews" sabotaged the German war effort in WWI. Or sabotaged the German economy between the wars. You won't be able to show any evidence because it didn't happen.

Are the Jews traditionally some of the wealthier people in Europe? Absolutely. But you know why? Because Christians were forbidden by the Catholic Church from lending money at interest, so if you wanted to get any kind of capital (and you weren't some royal thug with tax raising powers), until around about the 16th-17th century and the Reformation, Jews were the only people you could borrow off. So, of course, the local Jewish money lender, despite being the only guy who could lend money (and, who was also usually forbidden from holding other jobs practised by Christians), was also despised as the person who everyone owed money to. So yes, Jews got rich, and usually got pretty good at making their capital portable (because those lovely Christians had a habit of running the moneylender out of town when they owed them too much), and frankly had a fairly understandable "fuck you" attitude towards their Christian neighbours.

The attitude of the Nazis came directly from that culture of "blame the Jew" that goes all the way back to Middle Ages. It had no basis in reality; it was convenient and also gave the Nazis the excuse to strip Jews of their assets to fund the party; also standard European practice since the Middle Ages.

Now if you were talking about Jews wrecking the Russian war effort in WWI, you'd have a bit more of a case, but that's only because well-educated Jews were disproportionately common amongst the Communists, but their Jewishness was a correlation, not a causation.

 

[Raven]

There is some crazy shit in this thread.

Funny and disturbing that anyone can actually hold these views, and then say they don't actually know anything about the subject.

 

[fettoken]

There must have been other underlying reasons other than Hitler being bat-shit crazy, that we do not know of. But by all means, call it disturbing all you like. I did not say I didn't know "anything" about the subject. Quit distorting and twisting it please.

Also, was it propaganda that Jews actually declared war towards Germany to begin with?

 

[Punishment]

I am shocked this thread wasn't made by an American.

The logic fits perfectly