The dps formula

Vodkafairy

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
7,805
My brain is boiling but I think this is it :p

cap damage per second = ((((((25+(dwskill*0.68)+(drskill*3)))/100)*(((capmainhanddamage+(capmainhanddamage*(((stylegr*styleskill)*((mainhandspd*(1-(qui-60)/500)*((100-capmainhanddamage)/100))))/capmainhanddamage))))+capoffhanddamage))/(((mainhandspd+offhandspd)/2)*(1-(qui-60)/500)*((100-capmainhanddamage)/100))))+(((((1-(((25+(dwskill*0.68)+(drskill*3)))/100))*((capmainhanddamage+(capmainhanddamage*(((stylegr*styleskill)*((mainhandspd*(1-(qui-60)/500)*((100-capmainhanddamage)/100))))/capmainhanddamage))))))/((mainhandspd*(1-(qui-60)/500)*((100-capmainhanddamage)/100)))))

capmainhanddamage = the max damage you will hit for with the mainhand weapon, its only affected by weapon SPD (nothing else), you can find this by hitting a lvl 0 mob unstyled

capoffhanddamage = same as above, but then of course the offhand weapon

haste = the haste %, note that the value as displayed in the delve in daoc is doubled, so for example a druid haste (40 delve value) is actually 20%

qui = quickness stat, max is 250, so if you have more, just fill in 250

stylegr = every style has a 'gr', growth rate, it's directly bound to the ammount of damage it adds on a swing. find the value for your style here: http://daoc.nisrv.com/modules.php?name=Weapon_Style_Faq (so for example the pierce taunt, bumblebee sting, has a growth rate of 0.58)

styleskill = style growth rate is linked to the specpoints you spent in a specline, for example blades, if you want to calculate the damage with a blades style, use the blade skill you have including items and rr (50+16 for example). this goes for all speclines, so CD, CS, 2h, polearms, etc all included, not just "base" skills that increase your weaponskill

dwskill = skill you have in DW, or CD including items and rr (34+16 for example)

drskill = the level of 'dualist reflexes' you have (In my case, 1)

mainhand spd = spd of the mainhand weapon as displayed when you right-click the weapon (3.9 for example)

offhand spd = spd of the offhand weapon as displayed when you right-click the weapon (2.4 for example)

So, what exactely does it do? Tbh, I don't know if it does anything. It's very very theoretical and I have no clue if it actually comes close to "reality" in daoc, but its supposed to do this: it calculates the maximum cap damage per second using styles on a target. With this formula you can calculate the difference between weapon speeds, weapon styles, specs, dr level, etc etc. Note that you won't hit your cap often, so the difference is a bit smaller than the formula will give (this is where weaponskill comes in, the more ws you have, the closer you will come to your cap, however ws does NOT increase the cap).

It's ofcourse a massive pain in the arse to change all the values so I put it in a spreadsheet myself, would be nice if someone could put it in a small php page and host it online, but I dunno how.

It's just a raw damage comparison, keep in mind that utility matters alot too (snares, haste debuffs, etc).

I made this calc because I was curious how much specs affect style dmg. Wondering if Garrote/Achilles heel combo at 34+16 cs skill is better than bumblebee sting (pierce taunt) at 50+16 pierce skill.

One thing you'll notice is that dual wielding is really, really important (duh, i wonder why light tanks are fotm), one percent extra dual wield also boosts your max damage with 1%. This makes DR a very good ra, it increases your max dmg output with 3%, next to the increased chance to proc PF/whatever.
 

Vodkafairy

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
7,805
Nalistah said:
summariiiiiiiiiiiiiiizzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzze plzzzzz :m00:

basically it confirms everything we already know about styles and dw, this just adds a few numbers :p
 

Night

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
749
I lost you at around after this point
"My brain is boiling but I think this is it "
 

Driwen

Fledgling Freddie
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Dec 23, 2003
Messages
932
Vodkafairy said:

just trying to translate your formula into something readable:

cap damage per second = (((DW*(((capmainhanddamage+(capmainhanddamage*(((stylegr*styleskill)*((MES*((100-capmainhanddamage)/100))))/capmainhanddamage))))+capoffhanddamage))/(AES*((100-capmainhanddamage)/100))))+(((((1-DW)*((capmainhanddamage+(capmainhanddamage*(((stylegr*styleskill)*((MES*((100-capmainhanddamage)/100))))/capmainhanddamage))))))/((MES*((100-capmainhanddamage)/100)))))

{(25+(dwskill*0.68)+(drskill*3))/100} = chance on dualwielding= variable: DW
mainhandspd*(1-(qui-60)/500)*(1-(Haste buff%)=mainhand effective speed (added haste buff(to be added in decimals) and you could add the haste RA in there aswell)= MES
(mainhandspd+offhandspd)/2=average swingspeed= AS
(AS)*(1-(qui-60)/500)*(1-haste buff)= average effective swingspeed= AES

as I am not to formiliar into the formulas how calcing capped damage works, ill leave it here. However you really should divide these formulas into something parts as it is a way to big amount of brackets now and no one can see what is multiplied or divided by what first now nor can anyone check wether you made a mistake somewhere.

summary would be that VF added all known formulas into one big one (assuming you dont use hastebuff). The problem is that he didnt add how to calculate the damage from twohanders in it, so you cant compare the biggest competitor of DW'ing(off course shield+1hander will be outdamaged by DW'ing, but a twohander might not (they are though)).
 

Vodkafairy

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
7,805
If you can't be arsed to try and see the point of this formula, don't bother posting at all, I'm sorry you don't see the point but don't bother anyone else with it?

I'm sure you all want to know what the effect of different weapon speeds, different stats, etc is of your weapons. Don't tell me you just pick a random set of weapons and go rvr, ofc not, you want to perfect it. You can do that by using this formula, it just looks fucking messy cus it has to be put into a spreadsheet or something first.

Driwen- yes I combined all the formulas, here's them all split up.

dual wield chance = 25+(DWskill*.68)+(dr*3)

effective speed = SPD * ( 1 - ( Quickness - 60 ) / 500) ) * (( 100 - Haste)/100)

styled damage cap = ((Growth Rate * Weapon Spec) * Effective Speed) / Unstyled Damage Cap

max mainhand style dmg = unstyled mainhand damage cap + (styled damage cap * unstyled mainhand damage cap cap)

max dual wield styled dmg = max mainhand style dmg + unstyled offhand damage

after that it's quite obvious

dw dmg per swing = max dw dmg * (dw chance/100)
mainhand dmg per swing = max mainhand dmg * (1-(dw chance/100))

then calculate it per second

cap dmg per second = (max dw dmg * effective dw speed) + (max mainhand dmg per swing * effective mainhand speed)

sorry if i missed something out, but thats the idea

oh and 2h isn't in this formula since afaik using a 2h weapon adds 40% damage or something, im not sure how it works, not interested in it either

it does work without an offhand tho, just don't leave the offhand dmg and speed empty
 

Antedeluvian

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 7, 2004
Messages
691
Ok OK, i'm sorry, ty for your effort, now, could u calculate the formula for bow/xbow/throwing weapons formula?
 

Vodkafairy

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
7,805
heh could have expected this :/

sorry for spending some time that saves you lots of cash, and lots of time, while trying to optimise your char which you undoubtedly want to do
 

Light

Loyal Freddie
Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
692
i think its some nice work .. and yeah belomar reminds me of Lisp too (fuckin hated that stuff .. trying to do it at uni stoned too was the nut crackar)

would like a look at the Spreadsheet you did VF .. can u put it somewheres for us to download?
 

Nuked

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
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never come across a better time to use this smiley......

:eek7:
 

Draylor

Part of the furniture
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2,591
Vodkafairy said:
sorry for spending some time that saves you lots of cash, and lots of time, while trying to optimise your char which you undoubtedly want to do
And how exactly does it do that?

Its just an overly complex way of presenting a few blatantly obvious facts.

If anyone is shocked to learn that higher DW skill, more quickness, haste (etc etc etc) increase their potential damage output over time then theyre either playing the wrong game or just couldnt care less. The facts help people spec/equip a char - the overly complex formulas confuse people and only help increase the sales of headache cures :p
 

Whisperess

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
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Draylor said:
the overly complex formulas confuse people and only help increase the sales of headache cures :p
Unless ofcourse they have a brain. No, I'm sorry, that's much to ask of most of the daoc community.

Good work VF, nice to see that more people care about the numbers :)
 

Driwen

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
932
((100-capmainhanddamage)/100) <-- where is that for, it isnt used in calcing style cap iirc and you multiply your numbers first with it and then later on divide by it so it doesnt effect your calculations?
 

Jox

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 3, 2004
Messages
723
Vodkafairy said:
My brain is boiling but I think this is it :p

cap damage per second = ((((((25+(dwskill*0.68)+(drskill*3)))/100)*(((capmainhanddamage+(capmainhanddamage*(((stylegr*styleskill)*((mainhandspd*(1-(qui-60)/500)*((100-capmainhanddamage)/100))))/capmainhanddamage))))+capoffhanddamage))/(((mainhandspd+offhandspd)/2)*(1-(qui-60)/500)*((100-capmainhanddamage)/100))))+(((((1-(((25+(dwskill*0.68)+(drskill*3)))/100))*((capmainhanddamage+(capmainhanddamage*(((stylegr*styleskill)*((mainhandspd*(1-(qui-60)/500)*((100-capmainhanddamage)/100))))/capmainhanddamage))))))/((mainhandspd*(1-(qui-60)/500)*((100-capmainhanddamage)/100)))))

You are wrong, the right formula = fgkhegh30922892gj x 349332.00+?´323#¤#¤%iowerfterpt*
 

Lejemorder

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 9, 2004
Messages
891
Vodkafairy said:
My brain is boiling but I think this is it :p

cap damage per second = ((((((25+(dwskill*0.68)+(drskill*3)))/100)*(((capmainhanddamage+(capmainhanddamage*(((stylegr*styleskill)*((mainhandspd*(1-(qui-60)/500)*((100-capmainhanddamage)/100))))/capmainhanddamage))))+capoffhanddamage))/(((mainhandspd+offhandspd)/2)*(1-(qui-60)/500)*((100-capmainhanddamage)/100))))+(((((1-(((25+(dwskill*0.68)+(drskill*3)))/100))*((capmainhanddamage+(capmainhanddamage*(((stylegr*styleskill)*((mainhandspd*(1-(qui-60)/500)*((100-capmainhanddamage)/100))))/capmainhanddamage))))))/((mainhandspd*(1-(qui-60)/500)*((100-capmainhanddamage)/100)))))

capmainhanddamage = the max damage you will hit for with the mainhand weapon, its only affected by weapon SPD (nothing else), you can find this by hitting a lvl 0 mob unstyled

capoffhanddamage = same as above, but then of course the offhand weapon

haste = the haste %, note that the value as displayed in the delve in daoc is doubled, so for example a druid haste (40 delve value) is actually 20%

qui = quickness stat, max is 250, so if you have more, just fill in 250

stylegr = every style has a 'gr', growth rate, it's directly bound to the ammount of damage it adds on a swing. find the value for your style here: http://daoc.nisrv.com/modules.php?name=Weapon_Style_Faq (so for example the pierce taunt, bumblebee sting, has a growth rate of 0.58)

styleskill = style growth rate is linked to the specpoints you spent in a specline, for example blades, if you want to calculate the damage with a blades style, use the blade skill you have including items and rr (50+16 for example). this goes for all speclines, so CD, CS, 2h, polearms, etc all included, not just "base" skills that increase your weaponskill

dwskill = skill you have in DW, or CD including items and rr (34+16 for example)

drskill = the level of 'dualist reflexes' you have (In my case, 1)

mainhand spd = spd of the mainhand weapon as displayed when you right-click the weapon (3.9 for example)

offhand spd = spd of the offhand weapon as displayed when you right-click the weapon (2.4 for example)

So, what exactely does it do? Tbh, I don't know if it does anything. It's very very theoretical and I have no clue if it actually comes close to "reality" in daoc, but its supposed to do this: it calculates the maximum cap damage per second using styles on a target. With this formula you can calculate the difference between weapon speeds, weapon styles, specs, dr level, etc etc. Note that you won't hit your cap often, so the difference is a bit smaller than the formula will give (this is where weaponskill comes in, the more ws you have, the closer you will come to your cap, however ws does NOT increase the cap).

It's ofcourse a massive pain in the arse to change all the values so I put it in a spreadsheet myself, would be nice if someone could put it in a small php page and host it online, but I dunno how.

It's just a raw damage comparison, keep in mind that utility matters alot too (snares, haste debuffs, etc).

I made this calc because I was curious how much specs affect style dmg. Wondering if Garrote/Achilles heel combo at 34+16 cs skill is better than bumblebee sting (pierce taunt) at 50+16 pierce skill.

One thing you'll notice is that dual wielding is really, really important (duh, i wonder why light tanks are fotm), one percent extra dual wield also boosts your max damage with 1%. This makes DR a very good ra, it increases your max dmg output with 3%, next to the increased chance to proc PF/whatever.


i will try it out then i get time later on today :)
atm i think i get to much dmg with a 1h (no DW) or 2h coz u plus 25 from DW i dosnt have :)
 

Vodkafairy

Fledgling Freddie
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Messages
7,805
Driwen said:
((100-capmainhanddamage)/100) <-- where is that for, it isnt used in calcing style cap iirc and you multiply your numbers first with it and then later on divide by it so it doesnt effect your calculations?

heh nerf its supposed to be haste, not capmainhanddamage :/

download the spreadsheet, correct formula is in there, and it's a "bit" easier to work with as well :p

i just divided it by 100 again so that the less gifted people here can just fill in 20 instead of .2, but it looks like they dont give a rats ass anyway ;p

oh and to that guy saying its just facts we already know, it does more than just that

you can compare high-damage styles (ie garrote/achilles) at low spec, with less high-dmg styles at high weaponspec (ie, taunt) which is very very usefull
 
H

Hallgerdur

Guest
Nice , thanks alot, I did not knew dualist reflex added to main dmg haswell, it makes it a worthy ra indeed :) I will check it out better later tonight, it's realy complicated, the formula that is, will try to but it into a script or something :) make it useable for some ppl here, I think they will not whine that much then and etc. :)
 

mts

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 25, 2003
Messages
742
If daoc had gone back to the way stuff was before with just a damage value and a speed value on weapons, I would be one happy camper. Then they could fix that stupid i-hit-really-fast-so-i-hit-weaker problem with high quickness and haste.
 

Vodkafairy

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
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Messages
7,805
Hallgerdur said:
Nice , thanks alot, I did not knew dualist reflex added to main dmg haswell, it makes it a worthy ra indeed :) I will check it out better later tonight, it's realy complicated, the formula that is, will try to but it into a script or something :) make it useable for some ppl here, I think they will not whine that much then and etc. :)

That'd be great :p

Check out the spreadsheet, formula posted here has som errors in it.
 

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