the difference beteen an AC raid and a `takes far too long for the enmie` raid.

[Reno]

More self absolving BS coming from you I see.

I have no idea how it is in Mid, but in hibernia a defense bg usually only starts forming when a 2nd keep gets attacked. It'll be about ready when a 3rd keep gets threatened. So I don't see a major difference from Albion there.

It seems especially in hours of dire need that NOT A SINGLE ALB is willing to take the responsability to start a BG and look bad by being the one that lead the BG that failed to protect a relic.

I`m one of the fools who at such a time starts a BG and tries to (taking someone elses expression) herd the cats, not lead the army, towards a common goal

>>So you had the BG that took Eras, you then took a keep and gained port there, you could have stopped there but you didnt.

I think i would never get the opportunity to lead again if i said at 2 o clock, `ok, we have the realm mission done, we opened the relic gate`, that`s it, we should go to bed. I would get crucified by my own army.

I don't know about you, but those 2 statement seem to contradict themselves. You mean that in an Albion,where noone wants to start let alone lead a Bg, a statement from a bg leader such as " I've had enough for today, getting Irvr in hib is enough, no more keeptakes for today" would have lead to someone else taking taking over ? You can't handle the few lamers that always want to win no matter what the cost?
Besides what is up with people that have to do a realm mission like opening relic gates, after establishing irvr in another realm. Are they really that sad that they need those 2 k rps? Is doing a mission like that, with such a high cost in bad blood really worth those 2 k?

>>The thing with alarm clock/red bull/whatever raids as its frustrating and annoying for people because they cannot be involved and it excludes them.

They tend to include 75%+ of all the people online of the realm doing them...

At a certain point during a long lasting campaign, a certain amount of monumentum builds up. breaking that monumentum of everybody involved by making a radical discision to abbandon the campaign in a win/win situation is political suiscide.

You really need to broaden your horizon beyond your little Albion late night buddies. Counting your 30 albs, the 3 mids and 3 hibs as 75% of a community, discounts about 97% of the rest of the community that also play this game. This community isn't so large and healthy any more that you can afford to piss off and maybe drive away a few or more with thoughtless acts like you pulled.
As for that comment about a win/win situation and political suicide: It's a game ffs, and it's supposed to be fun for ALL that play it. If you care about such politics you have gone even lower in my esteem than you've already sunken.

Danita
CF GM

 

[Solari]

I think i am one of the masters of defense, and i think i have been able to bring multiple mid and hib assaults to a grinding standstill with INFERIOR numbers at choke points untill our numbers exceed the enemies and we take over the offense.

No wait..

 

[Aran Thule]

is there an RVR BG running at all times ? Not in albion. i guess 85% of the time there is no BG whatsoever running in RVR.

Most of the time there is no /BG only time there seems to be one is when it is an organised raid or if it seems there is a relic raid against us

It seems especially in hours of dire need that NOT A SINGLE ALB is willing to take the responsability to start a BG and look bad by being the one that lead the BG that failed to protect a relic.
<snip>
I think there is a very BIG difference in leading and alb or mid or hib BG.
I don`t think i ever have near the controll some of the mid or hib BG leaders have over their BG and it`s actions

And tbh i cant really blame them, the amount of stick you get can be unbelievable, ive basically stopped running PvE raids for the realm because of the behavior of some people.
Im lucky in RvR as ive done it enough times that most people are willing to go along and follow what i say but it isnt easy and you always will get problems.
The reason Hib might apear to work together better then albion is that we(on pryd anyway) can from a situation where we were very much the underdog and being wiped by both sides, we had to work together or the frontier would have just been red and blue now.
We have lost a lot of friends and leaders but the foundation was built and helps stablise things a bit.

They tend to include 75%+ of all the people online of the realm doing them...

the differance being that primetime you have a chance to attack, defend ect at earlier o'clock you are in a no win situation wen facing overwealming numbers.
Think of it another way, when this happens people think 'whats the point' and apathy rises, people stop caring ect, when apathy gets too high people stop playing or organising stuff so there is less fun to be had so people leave, it all adds up.
Its a game people play to have fun, take away the fun and people will not play and these early morning raids are not fun for thoose on the recieving end.

 

[Muylaetrix]

I have no idea how it is in Mid, but in hibernia a defense bg usually only starts forming when a 2nd keep gets attacked. It'll be about ready when a 3rd keep gets threatened. So I don't see a major difference from Albion there.

seems very much the same, lol.

I don't know about you, but those 2 statement seem to contradict themselves. You mean that in an Albion,where noone wants to start let alone lead a Bg, a statement from a bg leader such as " I've had enough for today, getting Irvr in hib is enough, no more keeptakes for today" would have lead to someone else taking taking over ?

Not a statement of "i had enough". there is never enough. But to volunteerly break of a campaign with enough resources (players) at hand to easely finish the job, saying "i`m tired, i need sleep", is totally different than "you are all dismissed, go PVE". You just don`t stop at 99% of the way when you can take 100% by just going for an extra half hour or hour if there are enough people willing to do the same too.

You can't handle the few lamers that always want to win no matter what the cost?

what cost ? if there are 30 people willing to do something ? win no matter what the cost for me is things like cheating. to outnumber the enemy is just a matter of fact thing, it happens. it`s nice to outnumber and it`s not nice to be overwhelmed by superior numbers. But that`s the way things go.

Besides what is up with people that have to do a realm mission like opening relic gates, after establishing irvr in another realm. Are they really that sad that they need those 2 k rps? Is doing a mission like that, with such a high cost in bad blood really worth those 2 k?

wtf is wrong with it ? you start something, you finish, you still have xx numbers of players awake and out for blood. Can`t you understand that. people won`t stop because the enemy stops.

in war winners take what they can and victems suffer what they must (this is a quote, a fact, not an opinion). this is not sim city, it`s not barbie. this is a simulated war. war by defenition is not a prety sight. in war there are not always winners, but there are always losers. the losing party will always hate the winning party.

If you can`t cope with this part of the game, this game might not be suitable for you.

If you can`t cope with unequal numbers, stop playing Huge scale PVP mmorpgs based on an all out war concept. you will encounter too much frustration.

You really need to broaden your horizon beyond your little Albion late night buddies. Counting your 30 albs, the 3 mids and 3 hibs as 75% of a community, discounts about 97% of the rest of the community that also play this game. This community isn't so large and healthy any more that you can afford to piss off and maybe drive away a few or more with thoughtless acts like you pulled.

75% of those online.

As for that comment about a win/win situation and political suicide: It's a game ffs, and it's supposed to be fun for ALL that play it. If you care about such politics you have gone even lower in my esteem than you've already sunken.

there are so many levels in this game, from solo, to duo, to small group, to BG.

At a certain level, above tactic and strategic, there is a political level. Something you fail to understand too it seems.

 

[Gahn]

...Snip ...

there are so many levels in this game, from solo, to duo, to small group, to BG.

At a certain level, above tactic and strategic, there is a political level. Something you fail to understand too it seems.

That's very true and these kinda things ofc arent the best visit card "politically" speaking, so maybe u failed to understand it -.-

 

[Muylaetrix]

Think of it another way, when this happens people think 'whats the point' and apathy rises, people stop caring ect, when apathy gets too high people stop playing or organising stuff so there is less fun to be had so people leave, it all adds up.
Its a game people play to have fun, take away the fun and people will not play and these early morning raids are not fun for thoose on the recieving end.

This is the hard part really.

in theory, breaking the enemy morale is the way to victory.

you want to win, but technically shouldn`t do so because it undermines the enemy morale. Morale can have a devastating impact like you say on player perception of the game.

each realm has its points of high and low morale.

having played for 2 years with no relics, i can not say it was `less fun`. it was tougher withthe relics in enemy hands to compete, sure.

But this game has THAT as one of it`s core concepts imho. it`s not a fair or equal game.\

There WILL be frustration in a game that puts people against eachother.

 

[Arkian]

How hard is it to understand Muylaetrix, that because this is a game and not an actual war, that people can take your advice and choose not to play when it's no longer worth the frustration.

If enough people get pissed off and don't play anymore, then there's not going to be anybody left to play against. How is that in your best interests?

Or do you win DAoC by driving enough people out of the game so that all the time is like 4 am, until they finally decide to shut the server?

I'm getting very mixed messages from what's being said here as well. On the one hand it's being stressed that this wasn't a planned relic raid and that the opportunity was taken when it arose, whilst on the other hand you couldn't give up when your goal was in sight. At what time did the balance shift from 'open DF', to 'lets take a relic'.

To be perfectly frank, if you want to take a relic at 4 am because you don't feel it's viable to try to take it earlier, then by all means do so. Just don't try to dress it up as something that just accidently happens.

Feel free to take whatever relics you want at whatever time you feel like, just admit that it's lame but you don't care.

 

[Ging]

its quite simple really.

Anything alb does to win is OK, its tactically sound and strategically well versed, and thus deserved.

Anything hib/mid does that gives them any sort of success is down to OP classes, cheating, sly-underhanded play, haxxoring of gamecode with intention to cheat, crap playstyle, adding & leeching.

Remember if i loose to you its because of rare mistakes I make and you being very, very lucky

 

[Darzil]

It seems especially in hours of dire need that NOT A SINGLE ALB is willing to take the responsability to start a BG and look bad by being the one that lead the BG that failed to protect a relic.

I've started one several times when defence was needed. As people don't recognise the name they don't join the BG, so it ends up with only me, whichever group I'm in and our alliance.

Darzil

 

[Ging]

I've started one several times when defence was needed. As people don't recognise the name they don't join the BG, so it ends up with only me, whichever group I'm in and our alliance.

Darzil

yes young padawan, you need "overlord" status to be able to rally the troops!

regards

Ging "Overlord of tea breaks"

 

[Belgorian]

In all fairness AC Raids are rare, but all realms have done it at one time or another.

However, on many occasions I have been in raids that start primetime and just roll on and on. I always log at a reasonable time (mostly through boredom) and leave people to get on with it, but others choose to play on, which is fair enough, you cant expect people to log just because the enemy has.

This is the way of new frontiers, bring back old frontiers when you could start a raid primetime and finish the same evening!!

________________________
Belgorian LVL 50 Armsman
RR9L3-Guildmaster of LOE and
thoroughly nice chap!!

 

[Mastade]

In all fairness AC Raids are rare, but all realms have done it at one time or another.

Have you noticed the amount of alb AC/Late Night/Red Bull/Screw you raids albs has done since summer? And thats just for the relics, then there is the "omfg, the enemy realm has irvr in our realm, lets take it back at XX am"

 

[Muylaetrix]

I'm getting very mixed messages from what's being said here as well. On the one hand it's being stressed that this wasn't a planned relic raid and that the opportunity was taken when it arose, whilst on the other hand you couldn't give up when your goal was in sight. At what time did the balance shift from 'open DF', to 'lets take a relic'.

it started with an attempt to reopen ports in albion, which evolved to taking eras, which fell relatively fast after the mids did us a big favour by totally cripling hib porting in hibernia and to eras, with their tower taking campeing in hibernia.

Before we cleared the last hibs out of albion i said in the bg that the way things went, it wouldn`t surprise me we ended with insta rvr in crim before i went to bed.

which evolved in opening port in crimtain and finishing the realm mission (open DF). i am not sure just how late it was that the new realm mission became `open hib power relic` probably around 1-2 o clock CET, but it seemed well possible with our numbers to get that done before enough people would have gone to bed to make it impossible.

from the moment the realm mission became `open hib power relic shrine` till the moment the power relic was placed in hurb, I think no more than 3 hours can have passed.

At the moment the realm mission became `open hib power relic shrine` we had insta port to crim and a large army eager for more hib blood in emain.

To be perfectly frank, if you want to take a relic at 4 am because you don't feel it's viable to try to take it earlier, then by all means do so. Just don't try to dress it up as something that just accidently happens.

If the new realm mission hadn`t been `open hib power relic gate` at a moment we had a full army and insta port in emain, noone would have even considered going for a relic.

If the new realm mission would have been ANYTHING but open a hib relic shrine mission, on a moment that the situation seems to present itself on a golden plate, it would not have happened.

Major bad luck strike for hibs as far as i am concerned.

I`m not trying to dress up a `covered AC raid`. hibs ran out of luck the moment the new realm mission became open hib power relic shrine. and that was in the night.

oh woe the fortunes of war.

Feel free to take whatever relics you want at whatever time you feel like, just admit that it's lame but you don't care.

purpously stretching a campaign into the wee hours with the intention to have an easier shot at taking relics is something i would condone. setting allarm clocks with a bunch to take relics is something i condone.

but this is not what happened. albs stayed on and kept going because things were happening.

 

[Mastade]

Whats this funny idea that you have to do your "Realm Mission", does the albs actually think the realm missions is what "King Arthur" wants?

 

[Muylaetrix]

Whats this funny idea that you have to do your "Realm Mission", does the albs actually think the realm missions is what "King Arthur" wants?

people don`t have to, people want to.

 

[Mastade]

people don`t have to, people want to.

I dont get it :\

 

[Puppet]

Just for the record Muy: If someone takes a tower @ Crauchon it does NOT stop the Hibs from porting to any other keep in enemy lands. Only taking Crauchon (or nGed) main keep stops it, or ofcourse taking a tower of the keep the Hibs want to teleport to.

 

[Bugz]

i have personally rang RL friends of mine at 3am because i was online and spotted hibs attacking hurb,

Hahahahah.

I actually laughed out load.

 

[Muylaetrix]

Just for the record Muy: If someone takes a tower @ Crauchon it does NOT stop the Hibs from porting to any other keep in enemy lands. Only taking Crauchon (or nGed) main keep stops it, or ofcourse taking a tower of the keep the Hibs want to teleport to.

ok, i am not 100% sure on that one, could well be.


everybody seemed to agree that the time was right to strike at eras 3 when hibs lost porting on crau and didn`t have port on nged either.

i rember going like `gogo, now is the moment, zerg t3 down QUICK`.

 

[knighthood]

Lol - yeah right, sure u will ...

uke: at this hib mentality that u r somehow gods... ull get one relic from us and thats your own one back (prolly at 5am)

Well today sure shut me the fuck up lol

Gratz Hibs, and while i dont like u Mastade , i do respect that went rather well. Ill give u the benefit of the doubt for the Mids at eras tho, they r leeching basts

 

[Fatload BoysDoCry]

Well today sure shut me the fuck up lol

Gratz Hibs, and while i dont like u Mastade , i do respect that went rather well. Ill give u the benefit of the doubt for the Mids at eras tho, they r leeching basts

How would you like your humble pie served sir?

 

[Tehmeh]

Whats this funny idea that you have to do your "Realm Mission", does the albs actually think the realm missions is what "King Arthur" wants?

nope, its called, lets get some free RP's and kill some hibs for RP's on the way

Teh

 

[Lorfo]

I think I lost count on how many times people complained about the rr11 albs that are keepraiding on cluster in the middle of the night. We know that you dont want them to "ruin" irvr, take relics or whatever. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

 

[Sharkith]

I think I lost count on how many times people complained about the rr11 albs that are keepraiding on cluster in the middle of the night. We know that you dont want them to "ruin" irvr, take relics or whatever. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

they keep doing it <points at realm map from last night>

 

[Chronictank]

I think I lost count on how many times people complained about the rr11 albs that are keepraiding on cluster in the middle of the night. We know that you dont want them to "ruin" irvr, take relics or whatever. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

I fail to see what all the whine is about tbh, this is nothing new and will never be any different.
Its a fact that albion has a significant number of players who play at night time for whatever reason, they play regularly at this time so its hardly unexpected.
People playing these hours are expected to stay in pve?, after all if they kill soloers (the only people out at that hr) they get whined at, if they kill mini grps (the only people out at that hr) they get whined at, if they take towers they get whined at... no winning with you lot is there really

So what exactly do you expect them to do?, i would seriously love to hear a alternative if thats the only time they are online to play
I cnat say its the nicest thing i the world to do, but there is little or no alternative at that time of the day
For the people saying "roll on US", im sure if you leveled, templated and got to rr10 characters for them they would be happy to move. After all they arent the ones whining

 

[Lorfo]

So what exactly do you expect them to do?, i would seriously love to hear a alternative if thats the only time they are online to play
I cnat say its the nicest thing i the world to do, but there is little or no alternative at that time of the day
For the people saying "roll on US", im sure if you leveled, templated and got to rr10 characters for them they would be happy to move. After all they arent the ones whining

Maybe read what I wrote, I was complaining on those that been whining on the albs in 200 different threads.

 

[Chronictank]

Maybe read what I wrote, I was complaining on those that been whining on the albs in 200 different threads.

wasnt aimed at you in particular more of a general comment, you were just the easiest to quote at the time
that and i misread your reply