The Diesel Decade

[Moriath]

Kinda. That's distance from your home office. Ie the one your registered to work from. Not what you have to do outside that trip to the office for work. My distance to work is twelve miles. But I often have to travel hundreds of miles to customer sites.

 

[Job]

I'm sorry but that Tesla battery swap is just unworkable, imagine you average forecourt in the morning, to many cars for that crap.

 

[old.Tohtori]

I love how every naysay works on the assumption this tech won't advance in leaps like every other field

Also;

http://www.helsinkitimes.fi/finland...electric-buses-travel-the-roads-of-espoo.html

It's already "in use" in mass transit, just not competely.

 

[Tom]

Kinda. That's distance from your home office. Ie the one your registered to work from. Not what you have to do outside that trip to the office for work. My distance to work is twelve miles. But I often have to travel hundreds of miles to customer sites.

Well that's you. But you're very much in the minority. Most people go to a building, do stuff, and then go home. Most of those people don't need to drive.

 

[Job]

Obviously..but very few can afford a commute car and a real car. Nothing in the world beats a personal transport system that gets you to work and you could jump into at a moments notice to drive to lands end with one 10 min stop to fill up.

 

[Scouse]

The main barrier is cost, not functionality ...... Most of them have a fixed routine that they rarely change.

Except that would you buy a car that you couldn't use to go on holiday with/visit that long distance relative in an emergency etc. etc.?

No, you wouldn't. Unless you're thinking that you could use your tesla for everyday and then have a second petrol car for emergencies, which is silly and expensive.

We need sub-5 minute charging or a much longer range if electric cars are to take off properly - something which may be possible now they've figured out to make graphene 1000 times cheaper than before as I pointed out somewhere else...

 

[Tilda]

tbh the Teslas charge so fast I think its alright. Drive 200miles, pull in for 30 min break to recharge/piss/eat/coffee etc. Easy.

What hurts the electric car image is stupid Nissans made just so manufacturers can claim "green car maker" status, when their max range is like 30miles which is pretty pathetic.
My partner and I drive around 30,000 miles a year we both commute 120miles a day on average.
A tesla each would be perfect to let us charge at home each night on cheap power, then drive to and from work. On the days we work nights we plan on getting solar so charging is free!
I cannot wait personally for the Tesla model 3!

 

[Tilda]

I'm sorry but that Tesla battery swap is just unworkable, imagine you average forecourt in the morning, to many cars for that crap.

But you've already charged your car overnight, the only time you need fast charging is driving long distances, ie where you'll drain your battery. In that situation, the supercharger network comes into play.

The hotswapping battery thing is a talked about tech but I'm not sure it'll see the light of day. Superchargers and improvements in battery tech are the way forward imo.

 

[Job]

I would go with the next gen batteries and a tiny get you home petrol engine that can charge the battery with 30 mins to give around 30 miles.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Fuel stations of today in the electric car era, let's say 2044(cool year eh?);

- Electric cars have "easily" removable batteries (easily meaning at a station they'll have mechanics for them).
- You park your car in the dock(as with pumps).
- You pay the "Oh my god electricity prices are just getting ridicilous!" sum that the station charges(heh heh).
- They remove the depleted battery and put in a battery that's already fully charged, placing the depleted one in their charging farm(located under the station).
- In and out probably faster then with current day pumps.
- You continue your journey after your bathroom break and arbitrary coffee/donut.

If any of you hollywood dickjockeys out there steal this idea i'll sue you!

 

[Tom]

Except that would you buy a car that you couldn't use to go on holiday with/visit that long distance relative in an emergency etc. etc.?

No, you wouldn't. Unless you're thinking that you could use your tesla for everyday and then have a second petrol car for emergencies, which is silly and expensive.

We need sub-5 minute charging or a much longer range if electric cars are to take off properly - something which may be possible now they've figured out to make graphene 1000 times cheaper than before as I pointed out somewhere else...

If I was in that situation, I'd just rent a car for the holidays. It'd still be miles cheaper.

If I wasn't in the job I'm in now, I'm not sure I'd even have a car.

 

[Scouse]

If I was in that situation, I'd just rent a car for the holidays. It'd still be miles cheaper.

It's not just holidays Tom. It's emergencies (wait for a rental car during, say, your mum's heart attack? Nah, you leave the door straight away and go, taking two minutes to fill up with petrol if you must).

Or even if not an emergency simply the freedom to do long journeys on a whim (which I still take great pleasure from and do once a year or so).

Long distance travel, on tap, practically zero limits and extremely convenient. Humans aren't going to give that up. I'm as pro-environment as you like - when it comes to short journeys I use my bike or public transport as much as possible. But I ain't giving up the freedom having a resource like a car brings me...

 

[Tom]

If someone I knew had a heart attack I'd call 999, because that would be the best way to save that person's life.

 

[old.user4556]

I know eh, if only someone designed a car with an electric motor AND a petrol engine for longer range.

Wait..

 

[Scouse]

If someone I knew had a heart attack I'd call 999, because that would be the best way to save that person's life.

OK Tom, you're being obtuse. If you're miles away from a family member who's had a heart attack they're already in hospital.

A car that won't do the journey in a timely fashion when you most need it is utterly worthless IMO.

I know eh, if only someone designed a car with an electric motor AND a petrol engine for longer range.

This I have no problem with. At all. But it wasn't what's being discussed.

 

[old.user4556]

I know, I'm just being FASEESHUSH.

 

[Tom]

OK Tom, you're being obtuse. If you're miles away from a family member who's had a heart attack they're already in hospital.

A car that won't do the journey in a timely fashion when you most need it is utterly worthless IMO.

And a taxi will do exactly the same thing, and more safely too, since you won't be driving like a maniac.

I just think it's rather silly to use a very unlikely event as a reason to own something that many people could probably do without.

 

[Scouse]

And a taxi will do exactly the same thing, and more safely too, since you won't be driving like a maniac.

Oh come on.

I just think it's rather silly to use a very unlikely event as a reason to own something that many people could probably do without.

Happened 3 times in my life. Used my car to do 200+ miles to go and see an urgently sick relative. Once getting me there minutes before one died.

Another time I was doing 300 miles an evening after work to visit a close relative who was dying of cancer. The recharge times of electric cars alone would prohibit that. Taxi's wouldn't do that either, even if I could afford them.

Getting to work is the least important use of my car tbfh. Necessary? Yes. But I could always find another job.

Freedom and convenience are what cars are about. Currently electric cars are like hobbling yourself. If they can get ranges up and fuel times down then great - I'll be the first in line to buy one.

Hopefully the tech will quickly mature - and people would jump at electric cars for their obvious advantages - but it ain't there yet. If it was then people would already be doing it as it's a no-brainer...

 

[Moriath]

Toyota won't give extended warranties on their Prius batteries because no one know how long they will last.

Batteries that have had their components more than circumnavigate the world to get into your car have an unknown shelf life.

This is the same with any hybrid at the moment ..

And what scouse says. I want to know that the vehicle I have will get me where I want to at 3 in the morning. Not have to wait to get a taxi and a train and a bus that will take longer. Cost more. And be more inconvenient.

As soon as they invent cars that will go from my door to the door I want to get to. Without me humping luggage between mods of transport. At a moments notice without me having to book three months in advance to get the cheapest deal. I will jump at it. But at the moment the carbon fuel based engine is the most practical.

If it wasn't some country in the world would have taken the alternative

 

[Tom]

Toyota won't give extended warranties on their Prius batteries because no one know how long they will last.

That's funny, US warranties on the Prius's traction battery are 8 or 10 years/100k miles. Toyota UK offers an 11 years unlimited mileage warranty on the Prius hybrid system.

So where did you get your information from? Or is it the usual "pull something out of my arse and post it as though I know what I'm talking about" nonsense?

 

[Tom]

Happened 3 times in my life. Used my car to do 200+ miles to go and see an urgently sick relative. Once getting me there minutes before one died.

Spending many thousands of pounds annually just on the off-chance that you'll need that car to do what you've just said is, to me, a huge waste of money. And the taxi would still be cheaper.

 

[old.Tohtori]

If it wasn't some country in the world would have taken the alternative

They have and it just takes a bit of time to get it in place. As mentioned before; Finland.

And i agree with Tom, i don't own a car, but if i bought one it would be atleast 2k to get a piece of sh*t that would break every 10 meters. With that 2k my aunties can have 50 taxitrips worth of heartattacks(anywhere longer then that and the train is faster anyway), + the extra 3-5 taxitrips from additional costs per month for say...the bar.

If you're planning a trip on the other hand; you'll have f*ckers charged/fueled anyway.

 

[Scouse]

Spending many thousands of pounds annually just on the off-chance that you'll need that car to do what you've just said is, to me, a huge waste of money. And the taxi would still be cheaper.

Stop separating things out just to make your point seem better:

1) Petrol cars allow you to deal with emergencies - and try seeing it as a waste of money if you're denied seeing a loved one before their death without one (I'm sorry - but taxi's simply don't cut it - especially in one of the examples I gave).
2) Petrol cars can do long distances so holidays are feasible and convenient.
3) Petrol cars give me feedom to choose to work further afield and alter the type of work I can accept.

You're arguing because you want to be right, not be cause you are. Right now petrol cars > electric cars. As much as I wish it was the other way round it isn't...

 

[Tom]

1) Taxis allow you to deal with emergencies
2) Hire cars can do long distances so holidays are feasible and convenient
3) I've never argued against that.

Scouse, really - of all the people on here who I could accuse of "arguing because you want to be right", you would be at the top of the list. You're inventing scenarios to justify the ownership of something that most people don't need, but rather, want. I'm not going to argue with you further because it would be fruitless.

 

[Scouse]

You're inventing scenarios

Not true. I'm bringing up real situations that you're playing down the importance of.

Not having a car in the situations I described would have been unthinkably bad tbh. Family > all tbh...

most people don't need, but rather, want.

This is another side of it. Yep - I WANT a car to be able to deal with the vast majority of everyday situations. The situations I brought up are where you need one - and they do exist and are real - but ignoring them the reality is people are not going to give up petrol cars until electric cars are as convenient.

When they are, as I've said, I'll be first in line. But the combination of wants and needs that are fulfilled by a petrol car mean that me, and I suspect the majority of car-owning brits, think that it'll be a cold day in hell before I give up my petrol one until there's a viable alternative that doesn't make my life harder...

 

[old.Osy]

Tom is right, and you're failing at common sense because you don't want to lose status on the internet by admitting you're not exactly in the ballpark.

 

[old.Tohtori]

It's really on the fence thing; a car is convinient and personal(can't deny that), but simply transportation wise it's not absolutely necessary and in the future(not so distant) electric vehicular beasties will do the same as petrol.

 

[Tom]

Anyway, here's some good news on that pollution front, which was the point of my original post:

https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/cycling/northsouth

https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/cycling/eastwest

Finally, someone appears to be taking notice. Not perfect by any means, but a huge step in the right direction.

 

[Scouse]

you don't want to lose status on the internet

Is there such a thing as "status" on the internet?

Not perfect by any means, but a huge step in the right direction.

I'd like to see a lot more funding of things like sustrans...

 

[Tom]

Sustrans are incompetent and not fit for purpose. They should be closed down.

The solution is simple. Go get a load of Dutch and Danish traffic engineers, pay them to sort it out.