The Devolution of DAOC... Game or Players?

[Urgat]

Hi folks...

I think it is safe to say that DAOC has been in a decline for a while now, the fall may have leveled somewhat recently, with hardcore oldtimers staying on regardless of population issues etc, but i think the trend is there.

However, the point of this post is not the decline itself... rather to talk aboput the REASON for it.

There are many theories... Natural Progression, Other games better, I myself am a strong subscriber to the thought that the prolific use of buff bots combined with the rediculus "additions" that TOA brought us was a strong contributor to this great games spiraling downfall...

However...

An incedent on the US cassic server where i am currently taking solace may have opened my eyes to the bigger picture... Let me briefly explain.

I was happily plodding along with leveling my midgardian hybrid tank, when soemone announced they were putting a group together with the intention of gaining pve experience. In short, i joined, and we were soon an eight man (dwarf, kobold, troll!) group gathered up and ready to head into a dungeon.

The conversation was pleasent, and the trip there was easy... then it started.

Now, bieng as this was a low level group, my expectations were not sky high... unfortunatly... wipe after wipe after wipe soon took its toll, and it was clear to see that the group's healer was clearly not doing his job correctly. The mistakes were obvious to myself (having bieng playing this game since its initial US beta stage) Over healing, bad agro management, no mezzes on adds, running from mobs making it hard for peel etc etc etc... basically everything a healer should NOT do... this guy was doing. The other group members clearly saw what was going wrong also... and the upshot was he was kicked... and an advert for a new healer was placed. Now.. at this point i also left the group...

and ill tell you why...

It didnt "sit right" to me what had happened... i was uncomfortable to say the least. Acting on a hunch... i sent a PM to the healer in question...

"Hi there friend... How long have you been playing DAOC?"

The reply came back after a few seconds...

"Sorry, Just 2 days"

SORRY!
SORRY?

Here was a brand new player to the game APOLOGISING for bieng new...

I was GUTTED for him!

I imediatley invited him, and set about telling him everything i could about healers, Midgard, strategies, BAF, Agro, tanks, casters, support... the whole game in general whilst doing some pve with him. It turns out he picked healer after reading about it in the game manual... After a couple of hours... he was doing well... healing at the right times, mezzing, dealing with agro... etc etc. Unfortunatly i had to log out after a while, but i left that guy in the knowledge that he had a better understanding of his chosen class, and the game in general.

Now... to my point...

Could it be... that it was the PLAYERS that contributed significantly to the decline of DAOC?

It seems to me that the great majority of players expect the best right off the bat... and are simply not willing to entertain a little bit of "avarage" or even "under par"

Had i not helped that guy out (and apologised for the bahaviour of the other players) i wonder how he would have got on... Here we had someone who wanted to play a crucial support class for midgard.. yet i doubt there are many who would have set aside the time to help him understand how it worked?

We were all "Newbies" once... however.. we all had an advantage over the "newbies" of today... We had nothing to live up to... because everyone else was a newbie too...

The more i think about it... the more i believe that it was US, the players, that contributed most to the decline of DAOC... and that ashames me, and makes me determined to act diferently... even if it may be too late now to make a difference.

Next time someone isnt performing so well in your group... do me (and them, and everyone else) a favour... and take the time to explain things... pass on your knowledge of the game to others... dont just kick em and call them "noobs"

You were just like that once. Remember.

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

Awesome post.

 

[Gahn]

Yeh well, unless i'm playing with well known peeps, i always try to figure out what's the average knowledge of game mechanics of rest of group, even at the risk of being pedantic (that goes for PvP also).
I can agree on some degree with you about the power of players and their good attitude over the game (and most of over the other guys playing it, be it "friends" or "enemies), but it's Daoc problems lie deeper than that.

 

[aika]

every online game that is old enough will be newbie unfriendly.

 

[Bluesky]

Nice post Sang me old fart

Have to say i do agree with you aswell - its people's attitudes that can have a major contributing effect on how well we interact with each other with DAOC (and its longevity) as a prime example. In many ways its just a more anonymous/shallow way of looking at real life. Playing a mmorpg (imo) can be just a braver way of how we look at life or for the roleplayers amongst us how we can represent ourselves in avatar form with the oportunity to take on alternate personas in our own forms of escapism.

I find it deeply saddening the way ppl interact with each other a lot of the time - the abuse/ridicule/name calling etc. What one person see's as humour/bravado/comedy another person can equally see as abuse and its that abuse which can lead ppl in different directions creating divides. The most obvious being as you state the 1337's and the n00b's. The obvious conclusion being the 1337's left alone thrashing their e-peens around massaging each others ego's while the n00b's long since left for pastures new.

If ppl spent as much time being positive as they do being negative/1337/abusive the world would be a much nicer place to hang out... virtual or otherwise.

 

[old.Whoodoo]

Great post, but this doesnt stop at PvE, attitudes also extend worse in RvR, under RR5 a lot wont get groups even as seers. People tend to forget that we all started at the beginning, level 1, RR1 with not even the knowledge of how to load a quckbar.

 

[Castus]

I also think the ability to 'powerlevel' ruined the desire to group.My 1st toon was a cleric and i learnt a hell of alot about being a healer leveling up from 1-50 in groups which also helped with RVR in the end .That guys healers experiances could also be compared to 'unknown' people trying to get rvr groups and dumped if not up to the leetboy standards.

Basically there should of been more incentives and rewards given to fgs exping together.

 

[scorge]

Now... to my point...

Could it be... that it was the PLAYERS that contributed significantly to the decline of DAOC?

No its GOA in europe that contributed significantly to the decline of DAOC....

 

[Bluesky]

No its GOA in europe that contributed significantly to the decline of DAOC....

While I do agree with you that GOA as an online games provider leaves a LOT to be desired (and thats a HUGE understatement) its just one part of the overall decline. Many factors combined together have brought us to where we are today.

 

[Ctuchik]

Could it be... that it was the PLAYERS that contributed significantly to the decline of DAOC?

thats exactly what i've been saying for the past year or so.

GOA, and even OT have very little to do with the decline of the english servers.

its the players for the most part thats been doing most of the damage.

buffbots, PL, general bitching in RVR and over PvE and a total inability to be nice overall to ppl they don't know.

ask a question and u'd be lucky if u even got a "fuck off newb" back most of the time.

been running into a few new players over the year thats been playing for months and pretty much never seen a single other player. because they are all in modernagrav and the other 2 realms simmilar areas, PL'ing all their alts. and those same ppl that PL come HERE whining and crying that GOA aint doing anything to get new players.

they ARE but.....

WE DONT MAKE THEM STAY!​

rant over

 

[pjuppe]

great post and of course players attitude towards eachother is a factor that deteriorated this game. i don't know why but alot of players have a tendency to be real pricks towards other players that they don't know.

 

[kivik]

Good post, myself I always offer new players help and tell them they can ask me about anything.

I think there should've been a XP bonus for grouping at lower levels, way too late for that but oh well, maybe something for WAR.

 

[LawBringer]

Death of the Game

The killing blow for me was the arrival of the Classic servers, great idea - but I could not believe I saw bots on stick on the opening day, the whole point of the server type, lost.

Still play Classic - but now its all in German, and the numbers so low, except for Hibs, who are killing the RvR off every night.

Love the game, but numbers getting to low to make it enjoyable, not even enuff guilds on to claim all the keeps, let alone the towers.

 

[GReaper]

On servers with a healthy population this wouldn't be too much of an issue - the player would eventually join another group.

You can't point the entire blame for the decline of DAoC on the players. Mythic have made many awful errors which have pissed off the fanbase on many occasions. Many flaws in logic which have also caused problems with old players not needing to interact with new players.

I'd say what you're identifying is the result of the problems in the game, not the main cause for the problems.

 

[echome]

+rep

 

[Levin]

Very good post, with which I agree wholeheartedly. :worthy:

 

[Mabs]

yeah , cant argue with that mate, reppage

 

[Dakkath]

Another +rep from me too...

Back in the day I still actively played, I never had a problem talking to newbies. I've been known to login lol lvl characters to grp with new guys and offer advice and hints

It was the way someone kindly helped me out when I first joined the game and I found it worthy to return the favour.

 

[eble@work]

Great post mate.

Just a quick look at the servers in Europe (US ones aside for the moment) it has been the players on the English cluster that 'probably' has lead to the decline.

I can only assume the German/French population never evolved in the same way we did, hence why there numbers are vastly higher, the Pryd crash had a massive impact- perhaps that was the first major nail in the coffin.

The US servers are much harder to judge as they have had many clusters, overall the population is going down but nothing unexpected in a game this old.

Power leveling killed all PVE on Hib at least, so new starters had no one to group with, I tried being an advisor for a while but I got flooded with lots of questions a GM should have been anwsering TBH until I eventually turned advisor off.

Not so long back I leveled a Mincer on Alb, excluding the PL grp's I was lucky to find, pve grps didn't exist.

No new players coming in, game is totally doomed, regardless of what we all want.

Eble

I still remember a lvl 50 when I first started, giving me 30 silver at howth, he was from a guild called 'legends of camelot' man that made my day, I've tried to do the same a few times since.

 

[kivik]

GReaper has the answer to your question, the players aren't to blame for the largest part of population decline/state of Dyvet, but players helped to drive away more players over time.

The greatest problem the experienced players causes for new players is powerleveling I think. One shouldn't expect experienced players to stand by your side and give you information, gold and items when you start a new game. But there should be players to group with.

If Mythic implented something that made powerleveling impossible and XP bonus for grouping at lower levels this problem wouldn't exist, cause people always roll new alts, but prefer to PL or exp solo.

But then again, proper advertising from GOA would've been even better.

 

[knighthood]

I still remember a lvl 50 when I first started, giving me 30 silver at howth, he was from a guild called 'legends of camelot' man that made my day, I've tried to do the same a few times since.

30silver ... tight lol..

Im allways open to helpin out the lowbies with cash and items, i regularily run past grey cons in clan cotswold or mularn adventurers and drop gold onto them , even if i dont know if they own a 50p monster and its a just rolled alt, if i got stuff i cant or wont use i give it away..

im also on advisor on most of my alts and am happy to give me oppinion or help people learn stuff when im pm'd (not often but it happens) . As for actually helpin them lvl etc.. well tbh ill admit i rarely do that tho, not generally out of lazyness its just im normally doin something to get my character up or equipped and , quests take up a lot of time. I try not to grind as much as possible, tho if i was farmin xp items or such and someone asks for help im happy to grp them so long as they dont take the piss

 

[Kinag]

Hi folks...

I think it is safe to say that DAOC has been in a decline for a while now, the fall may have leveled somewhat recently, with hardcore oldtimers staying on regardless of population issues etc, but i think the trend is there.......

Urgat, best post ever

 

[civy]

I’m guessing the biggest hit to server pop was WoW. One thing that DAoC created was tight guilds and peeps didn’t leave DAoC in ones and twos, entire guilds moved. Some came back I guess but allot stayed. I know I still play WoW with the same peeps who I played DAoC with. When WAR comes out we will again move en mass. I expect allot of the low pop WoW servers to have a similar experience to pryd.
DAoC didn’t become a bad game overnight but after 3 years peeps in my circle of friends were starting to get bored and WoW arrived just at the right time or wrong time depending how u look at it.

 

[Samaroon|Terracotta]

Man in some respects I feel sorry for that newbie healer guy.

 

[Infanity]

I remember buying that daoc book when i first started (SI was already out) it advised me that Xbow was best spec on armsman and a load of other bull shit.. dye your armour blue and you get roxor stealth and other random things.

It's true what you say but now there is NEVER a new player.. I'd really be interested to know how often someone starts daoc new and plays Dyvet.

;]

 

[Samaroon|Terracotta]

I remember buying that daoc book when i first started (SI was already out) it advised me that Xbow was best spec on armsman and a load of other bull shit.. dye your armour blue and you get roxor stealth and other random things.

It's true what you say but now there is NEVER a new player.. I'd really be interested to know how often someone starts daoc new and plays Dyvet.

;]

Did you take that book home or? If not I'm gonna have to hunt it out soon

 

[Wholdar]

GREAT post! I very much agree with your point. And I miss those times, when everyone wasn't screaming n00bs to each other, but instead took the time to help out and play together, and learn together.

Sadly, I'm quite sure the game is right about done when it comes to attracting new players. There needs to be more than one or two that acts in a positive way towards you as a new player for you to find it interesting to stay.

For me, I hope that nice "newgame"-feeling will be back with W.A.R, and I hope that we manage to keep that feeling for a tad bit longer than I experienced in DAOC.

/j

 

[Hypnotastic]

Good post but the problem is there aren't many new players out there in DAoC at the moment. The arrival of WoW with an absolutely massive playerbase after a short-period of time shows there was and still is huge demand; they got their sales and marketing right. All many people talk or know about is WoW, yet DAoC has been here much longer and is still a great game. Mythic and GoA got the sales and marketing wrong.

Even now you'll be lucky to find a copy of DAoC (whatever expansion) in your local shop. Haven't lived in UK for 10 months now but I cannot find a copy anywhere in Sydney (Australia).

Being able to buy all the kit with BP's is actually a great idea, but even with the right selling and getting new people into the game, the one thing that has time in time out ruined my gaming experience is being killed in 5-10 secs flat by opted high RR groups (the same ones that moan about the zeurgs as they're the only things (strangely!) that can kill them...). I still think that and getting groups ultimately leads to people leaving the game.

Just my two bits worth but an interesting thread. Thanks.

 

[eble@work]

Good post but the problem is there aren't many new players out there in DAoC at the moment. The arrival of WoW with an absolutely massive playerbase after a short-period of time shows there was and still is huge demand; they got their sales and marketing right. All many people talk or know about is WoW, yet DAoC has been here much longer and is still a great game. Mythic and GoA got the sales and marketing wrong.

Even now you'll be lucky to find a copy of DAoC (whatever expansion) in your local shop. Haven't lived in UK for 10 months now but I cannot find a copy anywhere in Sydney (Australia).

Being able to buy all the kit with BP's is actually a great idea, but even with the right selling and getting new people into the game, the one thing that has time in time out ruined my gaming experience is being killed in 5-10 secs flat by opted high RR groups (the same ones that moan about the zeurgs as they're the only things (strangely!) that can kill them...). I still think that and getting groups ultimately leads to people leaving the game.

Just my two bits worth but an interesting thread. Thanks.

Hey mate welcome to OZ, your best bet is to Dl any expansion you need then just get a digital key from DL gamer or GOA (at your own risk ofc) I've been in oz since 2003 and not had real problems.

Good luck

Eble

 

[Hypnotastic]

Hey mate welcome to OZ, your best bet is to Dl any expansion you need then just get a digital key from DL gamer or GOA (at your own risk ofc) I've been in oz since 2003 and not had real problems.

Good luck

Eble

Hehe hi m8 That's not what I meant - have game and d/loaded etc, but if you knew nothing about DAoC where would you find out about it? You'd have to know to go to the website etc.