The Devil is in the details

[Belomar]

We all know the constant arguments back and forth about insta mezz, bolt range mezz, savages, grapple, bodyguard, determination, 3-4 x seers, FZ, phaseshift, and rampaging casters backed up by power relics. However, with all this on the table, there remains a number of seemingly inconsequential details for each realm, but which potentially can play a large role in an RvR group. Here are some of those:

• The Healer is the CC class with the lowest starting dexterity; 50 for Dwarves and Norse and 55 for Frostalfs, versus 60 for Celt Bards, and 80 for Saracen Sorcerers.
• Bards do have an insta amnesia useful for combatting Sorcerer bolt range mezz, but the lack of a castable version becomes a problem when a MoC:ing PBAE box needs to be suppressed.
• Demezzers are generally most available in "conventional" Mid and Alb RvR groups and least available in Hib RvR groups.
• Spirit Cabalists, unlike the other self-debuffers, have their self-debuff line as the lowest of the three (i.e. at 46 compared to 49 for RMs and Enchanters), allowing them to spec higher in the base DD spec for less nuke variance.
• Mid casters all have piety as their casting stat, yet only the new Frostalf race has starting stats suitable for a caster (75 piety, versus the default 60 for all other races), resulting in generally lower damage and power pool for Mid casters compared to other realms.
• Mids and Albs usually have ready access to yellow (if not purple) power regen, but the "conventional" Hib RvR group does not.

So, can you think of any other seemingly minor, yet potentially important details that affect the different realms in RvR? We all know the basic stuff, so try to be original and point at things most people don't know.

 

[Lorra]

What you got to look at is how each realm has flaws and benifits (sp?)

Eg: you state mids have the lowest base casting stat compared to hib/alb but also have ready access to Purp Mana regen where hib do not, etc... Im Sure if looked at it each realm would have something that the other realm didnt..

 

[georgie]

[*]Demezzers are generally most available in "conventional" Mid and Alb RvR groups and least available in Hib RvR groups.

Are Bards and Mentalists not included in Hib RvR groups?

 

[Lorra]

Most Bards only have access to level 4 Mana regen, also it appears to be FOTM for RvR mentas to spec Light thus not allowing them to gain level 5 Mana Regen. {posted before i read quote sry}

Opps didnt ready your Quote i supose your right on that fact but from what ive seen playing my bard i tend to get mezzed alot even if ive broken away from the main group and are on sprint.

 

[Ralgedi Smurf]

Are Bards and Mentalists not included in Hib RvR groups?

ye, but mids often run with 3 healers = 3 demezzers and 1-2 supp sm's thats 1-2 more demezzers.

But then again, hibs dont need demezz they got group purge

 

[Drummer]

Yes cos GP is always up and 4ppl have it in a hib grp.

 

[Methos]

You're dying to get back to the game aren't you Belomar.

 

[Belomar]

I'm actually trying to be objective and look at this from all realms' perspective, and I am willing to be surprised. (Note that my DAoC knowledge is a little outdated, so feel free to correct me.) In other words, this is not a veiled attempt to prove that any realm is inferior to the other, I am just trying to pinpoint little things that are easily overlooked. You say that Bards have mana regen, but this is really only used during rebuff--Albs and Mids have mana crack pretty much permanently on them (yes, Mentalists have mana crack too, but how often do you see them in Hib RvR groups?). As for demezzers, it is true that Hibs have GP, but only until next patch; after that, there will be trouble.

So, what else interesting tidbits about the different realms are there?

 

[Loxleyhood]

• Everybody keeps on zerging.

 

[Belomar]

You're dying to get back to the game aren't you Belomar.

This is my way of fighting the withdrawal symptoms (though I really should cut back on FH usage too!).

 

[Filip]

hmmm some1 find the DPS table's ? Pin had 1 for casters and maybee there is 1 floating around for tanks ?

 

[Mastade]

Wardens are the only pbt class who can't get Crocodile's Tears Ring

 

[Loxleyhood]

Wardens are the only pbt class who can't get Crocodile's Tears Ring

Except for Wardens and zerglings, who really gives a fuck about such a petty thing?

 

[Raven]

mids get both 2h and 1h in one spec line however hibs have to spec for each and albs get it even worse

 

[Gasoline]

Bards and Skalds are completely screwed when compared to a Minstrel:


1) Bard has to spec in Regrowth aswell as Nurture to get songs, then in Music to get hold of any CC spells -- Skalds and Minstrels get just one specline for it all.

2) Skalds and Minstrels get 2 insta DDs each -- Bards only get one (which blinds anyone in that radius)

3) All of these three classes has a form of insta mezz, although Bards and Minstrels get the AE version -- a Skald has to settle for a single target mezz.

4) Minstrels get the infamous insta-stun. Bards have NO equivalent of this. Skalds get the speed debuff. In certain situations, I've seen both the stun and the speed debuff used to run away from situations that they know they have no chance of winning.

5) Skalds are the only one of the 3 that doesn't get an end regen song and a power song (which means Hibernia AND Albion have 2 forms of power regen, where Midgard only has one concentration-based spell). To replace this, Skalds get a damage-add song. Although better than many other damage adds, it's certainly not going to help turn the tables in a battle.

6) Minstrels get stealth, so in the event that they can't find 7 Infiltrator pets to run with, they can run solo and remain alive for a longer time than a solo Bard or Skald.

7) Minstrels, despite being a stealth-class as mentioned previously, can wear chain armour, same as a Skald.

8) A Skald has to spec 50 in Battlesongs to get hold of the last health regen song, whereas a Minstrel only has to spec 47 in Instruments. In this case, however, a Skald has a better red health regen song. Not sure about a normal Bard spec for RvR, but I'm guessing that it doesn't include speccing high in Regrowth...but a Bard has to spec 45 in an entirely different specline to get a heal song that is 1 health-per-tick lower than a Minstrels. Ratio for heal songs -- 42:39:38.


Guess you people probably knew most of that, but some of it, for me, is new

 

[Loxleyhood]

Summary so far:

THE REALMS ARE DIFFERENT!

 

[[NO]Subedai]

We all know the constant arguments back and forth about insta mezz, bolt range mezz, savages, grapple, bodyguard, determination, 3-4 x seers, FZ, phaseshift, and rampaging casters backed up by power relics. However, with all this on the table, there remains a number of seemingly inconsequential details for each realm, but which potentially can play a large role in an RvR group. Here are some of those:

• The Healer is the CC class with the lowest starting dexterity; 50 for Dwarves and Norse and 55 for Frostalfs, versus 60 for Celt Bards, and 80 for Saracen Sorcerers.
• Bards do have an insta amnesia useful for combatting Sorcerer bolt range mezz, but the lack of a castable version becomes a problem when a MoC:ing PBAE box needs to be suppressed.
• Demezzers are generally most available in "conventional" Mid and Alb RvR groups and least available in Hib RvR groups.
• Spirit Cabalists, unlike the other self-debuffers, have their self-debuff line as the lowest of the three (i.e. at 46 compared to 49 for RMs and Enchanters), allowing them to spec higher in the base DD spec for less nuke variance.
• Mid casters all have piety as their casting stat, yet only the new Frostalf race has starting stats suitable for a caster (75 piety, versus the default 60 for all other races), resulting in generally lower damage and power pool for Mid casters compared to other realms.
• Mids and Albs usually have ready access to yellow (if not purple) power regen, but the "conventional" Hib RvR group does not.

So, can you think of any other seemingly minor, yet potentially important details that affect the different realms in RvR? We all know the basic stuff, so try to be original and point at things most people don't know.

Forumm Trolll!

 

[Filip]

Bards and Skalds are completely screwed when compared to a Minstrel:

3) All of these three classes has a form of insta mezz, although Bards and Minstrels get the AE version -- a Skald has to settle for a single target mezz.

5) Skalds are the only one of the 3 that doesn't get an end regen song and a power song (which means Hibernia AND Albion have 2 forms of power regen, where Midgard only has one concentration-based spell). To replace this, Skalds get a damage-add song. Although better than many other damage adds, it's certainly not going to help turn the tables in a battle.


Guess you people probably knew most of that, but some of it, for me, is new

those 2 are wrong ....

minser's dont have instant mezz.... and certainly not AE instant ... would be nice though

allso ... minstrel's dont have end regen.....and hib's dont have any other end regen than bards....

 

[Aussie]

i'm pretty sure a healer or bard can get cap castspeed if he wants. i.e. go for mota4-5/dex4.

 

[Zorewin]

lol @ the mid trying to wank over the minstrel class, play one first before you wank!

 

[Fluid]

i'm pretty sure a healer or bard can get cap castspeed if he wants. i.e. go for mota4-5/dex4.

i'd love to see that proven cos i doubt it

 

[Marcus75]

Albs and Hibs can get power regeneration and endurance regeneration instantly after a rezz but mids both need to have an alert and uninterupted seer to give them that.

Mids main healing class need to, at least, handle cc as well as heal.

 

[Javai]

Albs are the only realm who have no access to out of group end regen (Bard + Croc Tear for Hibs, Conc buff for Mids)

 

[Dorin]

u forgot to add enchanters low utility overall.

 

[Ceryseth]

[*]Spirit Cabalists, unlike the other self-debuffers, have their self-debuff line as the lowest of the three (i.e. at 46 compared to 49 for RMs and Enchanters), allowing them to spec higher in the base DD spec for less nuke variance.

[/list]
So, can you think of any other seemingly minor, yet potentially important details that affect the different realms in RvR? We all know the basic stuff, so try to be original and point at things most people don't know.

Yes well, you must admit that my pet buffs are well overpowered compared to a pbae in the same line as my debuff

 

[Tiki]

lol @ the mid trying to wank over the minstrel class, play one first before you wank!

lol lol etc.. yesh RR5+ ML8 sojo mincer is such of the weak, give more skillz

 

[knighthood]

Bards and Skalds are completely screwed when compared to a Minstrel:


3) All of these three classes has a form of insta mezz, although Bards and Minstrels get the AE version -- a Skald has to settle for a single target mezz.

Guess you people probably knew most of that, but some of it, for me, is new

um no.. think youll find minstrels do not get an insta mezz, in fact a 3-4 second cast time on AoE mezz is anything but insta tyvm

 

[Arnor]

i'm pretty sure a healer or bard can get cap castspeed if he wants. i.e. go for mota4-5/dex4.

rofl, so ok. "spend a million rsps and you can cast mezz as fast as me!"

 

[Antedeluvian]

[*]Spirit Cabalists, unlike the other self-debuffers, have their self-debuff line as the lowest of the three (i.e. at 46 compared to 49 for RMs and Enchanters), allowing them to spec higher in the base DD spec for less nuke variance.

Errrrrr, well lets not compare the mana or runecarving lines against spirit please, it makes my cabalist cry

 

[Antedeluvian]

rofl, so ok. "spend a million rsps and you can cast mezz as fast as me!"

How many RPs need to spend a sorc to heal or ress like healers and bards?