The Devil is in the details

[Antedeluvian]

um no.. think youll find minstrels do not get an insta mezz, in fact a 3-4 second cast time on AoE mezz is anything but insta tyvm

Correction, 5 secs, and non affected by dex

 

[Kpax]

mids get both 2h and 1h in one spec line however hibs have to spec for each and albs get it even worse

I would trade any mid base weapon specline for LW any day.

 

[Mavl]

I would trade any mid base weapon specline for LW any day.

seconded

u forgot to add enchanters low utility overall.

very high ranged damage, very high close range damage. pet that heals/snares/debuffs
what more do you need ?

 

[vintervargen]

I would trade any mid base weapon specline for LW any day.

ask warriors the same please.

 

[Belomar]

Now now, children, you're getting off track. The objective is to gain insight into the other realms by pointing out details others likely do not know. Mastade's point was a perfect example, more of that please.

 

[Mavl]

ask warriors the same please.

look above ?

 

[vintervargen]

look above ?

tell why you'd rather want a back pos style with almost same growth rate and stun when you got slam and loose a shitload a ws with onehander, and prolly wont have any parry at all.

• rangers cant spec dualists reflexes ( )
• skalds/hunters ministrels/scouts bards/rangers get zephyr, but why healers?
• GP only got 1000 radius
• bards/chanters/wardens cant use CS or zahur auras if they want speed/pbt on
• GP costs 14 pts, BoF 10 ( )
• 4 people in a normal hib grp are vulnerable to slash
• dmg add chant / pbt on same character (both good and bad)
• bards have empathy as a rising stat, which does nothing for them
• nightshades cant become battlemasters

 

[Mavl]

Bards and Skalds are completely screwed when compared to a Minstrel:


1) Bard has to spec in Regrowth aswell as Nurture to get songs, then in Music to get hold of any CC spells -- Skalds and Minstrels get just one specline for it all.

1) Healing and CC spells are in separate speclines in all realms.

2) bard is a primary CC of hib.

2) Skalds and Minstrels get 2 insta DDs each -- Bards only get one (which blinds anyone in that radius)

Which is on a 10s timer and is better for interrupt. (now you dont expect to KILL someone with it, do you?)

3) All of these three classes has a form of insta mezz, although Bards and Minstrels get the AE version -- a Skald has to settle for a single target mezz.

1) Minstrel NEVER had insta mez.
2) Minstrel NEVER had AE insta mez.

comparing these classes by mezzing ability is simply stupid, as they are designed for diffirent things.

4) Minstrels get the infamous insta-stun. Bards have NO equivalent of this. Skalds get the speed debuff. In certain situations, I've seen both the stun and the speed debuff used to run away from situations that they know they have no chance of winning.

Bards have the infamous insta single and insta AE mez shouts as stated above.

5) Skalds are the only one of the 3 that doesn't get an end regen song and a power song (which means Hibernia AND Albion have 2 forms of power regen, where Midgard only has one concentration-based spell). To replace this, Skalds get a damage-add song. Although better than many other damage adds, it's certainly not going to help turn the tables in a battle.

1) Minstrels never had an end regen song.
2) Dont you think that giving infinite endurance to a class that swings 2h and has a runspeed song would be rather stupid ?

6) Minstrels get stealth, so in the event that they can't find 7 Infiltrator pets to run with, they can run solo and remain alive for a longer time than a solo Bard or Skald.

i sence wajn.

Minstrel is a rogue base class.

8) A Skald has to spec 50 in Battlesongs to get hold of the last health regen song, whereas a Minstrel only has to spec 47 in Instruments. In this case, however, a Skald has a better red health regen song. Not sure about a normal Bard spec for RvR, but I'm guessing that it doesn't include speccing high in Regrowth...but a Bard has to spec 45 in an entirely different specline to get a heal song that is 1 health-per-tick lower than a Minstrels. Ratio for heal songs -- 42:39:38.

Health regen songs are surely overpowered.

Guess you people probably knew most of that, but some of it, for me, is new

You also need to smoke less weed.
These 3 clases serve diffirent purposes in rvr and cannot be compared.

P.S. Why didnt you mention 2300 range 325 radius insta ae interrupt on a 10 second timer that bard has btw ?

 

[vintervargen]

P.S. Why didnt you mention 2300 range 325 radius insta ae interrupt on a 10 second timer that bard has btw ?

lvl42, can hardly describe it as an interrupt as it wont get resisted that much.

and many, many bards would trade it for castable version, at least pre-NF

 

[Mavl]

tell why you'd rather want a back pos style with almost same growth rate and stun when you got slam and loose a shitload a ws with onehander, and prolly wont have any parry at all.

1) Very high attack bonus.
2) You dont loose one round in case you want to kill your target.
3) Parry is almost no use in rvr.
4) Eats less endurance.

 

[Arnor]

svery high ranged damage, very high close range damage. pet that heals/snares/debuffs
what more do you need ?

social antennas that can pick up irony?

 

[Mavl]

social antennas that can pick up irony?

probably :<

 

[Alme]

How many RPs need to spend a sorc to heal or ress like healers and bards?

good point mate cuz healer sand bards can nuke

 

[Mavl]

lvl42, can hardly describe it as an interrupt as it wont get resisted that much.

and many, many bards would trade it for castable version, at least pre-NF

You do understand that amnesia prevents casing of spells ?


P.S. the horribly overpowered mincer stun is level 40

 

[vintervargen]

1) Very high attack bonus.
2) You dont loose one round in case you want to kill your target.
3) Parry is almost no use in rvr.
4) Eats less endurance.

you have a shammy with insta disease mater, cant run away then.

 

[vintervargen]

You do understand that amnesia prevents casing of spells ?


P.S. the horribly overpowered mincer stun is level 40

most spell cost 1-2 secs to cast, if you are interrupted you must wait ~5 secs.

 

[Antedeluvian]

good point mate cuz healer sand bards can nuke

And healers/bards can buff, look we can still whit this for ever, each class is different and each primary mezz class is a bit over the top (and no, sorcs arent the more favored off the 3 classes)

 

[Alme]

And healers/bards can buff, look we can still whit this for ever, each class is different and each primary mezz class is a bit over the top (and no, sorcs arent the more favored off the 3 classes)

yes and thats why u cant compare classes but instead compare what the realms have in a "standard" grp. I esp like the bard, mincer and skald comparison.

 

[Mavl]

most spell cost 1-2 secs to cast, if you are interrupted you must wait ~5 secs.

Single amnesia is on a diffirent timer, isn't it?

 

[ruudoniac]

i'm pretty sure a healer or bard can get cap castspeed if he wants. i.e. go for mota4-5/dex4.

yeah and when we spent these points to go mota4-5 u ll have all teh other usefull ras

so what about NF no mota no much dex so QQ!

 

[ruudoniac]

tell why you'd rather want a back pos style with almost same growth rate and stun when you got slam and loose a shitload a ws with onehander, and prolly wont have any parry at all.

• skalds/hunters ministrels/scouts bards/rangers get zephyr, but why healers?

Why not ?

[*] GP only got 1000 radius

Only ???? oO

[*] bards/chanters/wardens cant use CS or zahur auras if they want speed/pbt on

Healers too m8y

[*] GP costs 14 pts, BoF 10 ( )

PR cost 14 and tbh GP >>>>>>>>> PR,BOF

[*] dmg add chant / pbt on same character (both good and bad)

In mid groups there isnt any pbt at all , no desent rm whould specc supression to get it!

[*] bards have empathy as a rising stat, which does nothing for them

Healers have strength as a rising stat efefes!!

 

[vintervargen]

Why not ?

just a bit weird imo

Only ???? oO

its not very much mate, if you plan to unstick and hide to be able to heal

Healers too m8y

i didnt say healers could.

PR cost 14 and tbh GP >>>>>>>>> PR,BOF

i know PR costs 14.

In mid groups there isnt any pbt at all , no desent rm whould specc supression to get it!

your choice.

Healers have strength as a rising stat efefes!!

price for playing melee realm! hah! no pity from me!

 

[ilaya]

anyhoo.. going back to the original thread.. some things i have noticed with my champ..

when casting my insta snare on peeps running away.. i sometimes get msg.. target already has that effect.. but there aint any champs about except me.. my snare aint a root.. so surely it shouldnt be classed as such.. and if it is.. its useless tbh.

the utterly digusting blunt spec line in hibernia. spec 39 for an after parry move? and 50 for the follow up? 1 anytime style that aint taunt.. and no follow up either..

sure there's loads more but i cant think of them atm

 

[Filip]

atm snare shares timer with root's

 

[Klonk]

good point mate cuz healer sand bards can nuke

Yeah, I pity the poor sorcerers... how many rps to spend for me to nuke and/or lifetap as hard as them?

One detail in-topic: Bard + Druid + Warden can use Traitor's Dagger for shade purposes (or whatever), but not one seer class in Midgard or Albion can (according to VoS).

 

[Zaph]

Healers have strength as a rising stat efefes!!

So do druids and clerics - I guess this was thought to give them more solo ability - but empathy really does absolutely zip for a bard.

EDIT: Not to mention its the secondary rising stat, while str is the tertiary for healer/druid/cleric.

 

[Shangrila]

Bards and Skalds are completely screwed when compared to a Minstrel:


1) Bard has to spec in Regrowth aswell as Nurture to get songs, then in Music to get hold of any CC spells -- Skalds and Minstrels get just one specline for it all.

2) Skalds and Minstrels get 2 insta DDs each -- Bards only get one (which blinds anyone in that radius)

3) All of these three classes has a form of insta mezz, although Bards and Minstrels get the AE version -- a Skald has to settle for a single target mezz.

4) Minstrels get the infamous insta-stun. Bards have NO equivalent of this. Skalds get the speed debuff. In certain situations, I've seen both the stun and the speed debuff used to run away from situations that they know they have no chance of winning.

5) Skalds are the only one of the 3 that doesn't get an end regen song and a power song (which means Hibernia AND Albion have 2 forms of power regen, where Midgard only has one concentration-based spell). To replace this, Skalds get a damage-add song. Although better than many other damage adds, it's certainly not going to help turn the tables in a battle.

6) Minstrels get stealth, so in the event that they can't find 7 Infiltrator pets to run with, they can run solo and remain alive for a longer time than a solo Bard or Skald.

7) Minstrels, despite being a stealth-class as mentioned previously, can wear chain armour, same as a Skald.

8) A Skald has to spec 50 in Battlesongs to get hold of the last health regen song, whereas a Minstrel only has to spec 47 in Instruments. In this case, however, a Skald has a better red health regen song. Not sure about a normal Bard spec for RvR, but I'm guessing that it doesn't include speccing high in Regrowth...but a Bard has to spec 45 in an entirely different specline to get a heal song that is 1 health-per-tick lower than a Minstrels. Ratio for heal songs -- 42:39:38.


Guess you people probably knew most of that, but some of it, for me, is new

1. fuck healsong, its useless. Bard spec is 43 nurt /47 music/16 reg fyi, this is pretty much the one and only bard spec that works.

2. Who needs a powersong when we got fops now, never saw a bard play power song in combat. Why? Cause it might be impossible to get end on again. Mids got end + power reg up all the time. Albs got power all the time, and end is insta. Hibs have either power, end or nothing because the bard is wtf interrupted and cant get a song on.

3. If i could choose I'd ALWAYS take the concentration based end buff over a song, because getting end song running can be a real pain in the ass (interrupts works for starting a song). Paladin end chant is insta, mid end buff is always on, only bards are fucked.

4. I thought skald spec is 43 songs, 50 weapon. Skalds can hit freaking hard with a 2h weapon, minstrels can hit ok. Both got 2 DD shouts. Bards hit like babies (6 blade spec 4tw), and got 1 shout.

5. Bards are the only primary CC class with only ONE form of CC spells (mezz)+ FZ from MLs. Sorc got access to mezz + root, no instas tho. Healer got access to mezz, stunn, root, and FZ, 4 instas.

6. Mincer can have pets.

 

[ruudoniac]

One detail in-topic: Bard + Druid + Warden can use Traitor's Dagger for shade purposes (or whatever), but not one seer class in Midgard or Albion can (according to VoS).

Tbh i dont care for the shade mode / proc not that it couldnt be a nice add but we (seers) have bigger problems with artifacts and i ll tell u what i mean ..

Have u checked the stats a healer get from GoV , Eirene's Hauberk , Maddening Scalars ?

Why why why healing classes at other realms get stats that actually are needed for their chars and i get tank stats ???

Imo they should change it at 1 of the next patches - or givf healers some good stats (compare druid's version GoV with healers efefes) or if u continue to give to healers tank stats givf some styles to hit too !!

 

[anubis]

what's the problem with eirene?
healers get the same as druids/clerics

 

[ruudoniac]

just a bit weird imo

I think u made a mistake comparing bard with skald only imo u should compare bard with pac healler . as i c it bard is a combination of paccer and skald. If u remove songs from bard u got a cc class a bit worse than pac healor and if u remove cc u got a non that good skald but with bard's specc u got a powerfull char cuz i combines both of that. I think the game creators though about that and thats 1 of the reason healers got zephyr too :>

its not very much mate, if you plan to unstick and hide to be able to heal

U cant lose the cc battle that the use of gp - if u get mezzed u are sticked to each other so u can use GP then u can go hide and heal no need to use GP if grp has spreaded cuz prolly only a few grp members are mezzed let em use single purge or dimezz em :>

your choice.

not rlly :/ just think of warden needed to spend 40+ points to a speec line that give cral stuff except pbt :/

price for playing melee realm! hah! no pity from me!

Thank god that i am the only char in mid that i got strength as a rising stat and its a waste , cuz there are so many chars that have strength as rising stat and wtf pown