The annual 9/11 discussion topic.

[Amok]

You can complain about the US and 9/11, but brits aren't any better when it comes to Diana

It's like... 20% of people actually care, 40% don't care but they go along with it so as not to give offence, 40% see opportunities and use it to their advantage.

Too true.

 

[Sparrow]

Because it was pretty much the first time in their history that so many people had died on home-soil due to outside aggression.

I have the deepest of sympaties for the family and friends of the victims. Noone should be subject to such loss.

But I don't have a single shred of sympathy for the United States of America. <puts on asbestos suit>

August 6th 1945. 300,000 innocents murdered by the United States of America by the single most barbaric and cruelhearted decision in known history.

Operation Desert Storm and Operation Iraqi Freedom, the two US-led militiary campaigns in Iraq. Collateral damage: 12,000.

Want me to look up more numbers? These are far from the only ones.

 

[Bunnytwo]

August 6th 1945. 300,000 innocents murdered by the United States of America by the single most barbaric and cruelhearted decision in known history.

What you mean the Holocaust?

More Japanese died in the firebombings of Tokyo than Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined. Plus before I start weeping over the Japanese I just think of all the Chinese in Nanking (or any people occupied by the Japanese) or the POWs. Maybe you should think about what the Japanese got upto in WW2 before you start talking out of your arse.

 

[[SS]Gamblor]

Sorry but to the people who lost loved ones they can't just 'get over it' and they never will. It will stay with them for the rest of their lives.

yeah it will.
but best not to remind them every year about the fact that thier loved ones are gone, they deal with that every day. Then having Bush and Co, saying how bad they feel on this day blah blahh blahh ....

gets on my nerves tbh.

as for spending the moeny on the "Show" well imo help sort out the homelss problem , what they spent could of paid for 1,500 more works for the shelters.


well thats my 2 cent worth

 

[Marc]

September the 11th will always be remembered for what it was. The biggest terrorist attack in history.

End of. If you dont like remembering, dont. Let those that want to, mourn in peace.

To Sigurd. You sir are the biggest maggot in history. You really need to get a life cos all you spout on these boards is a whine of some sort. You must of been an abused child to have so much hate inside you. Id suggest some sort of therapy, seriously.

 

[Archeon]

But I don't have a single shred of sympathy for the United States of America. <puts on asbestos suit>

Ofc, I can count the number of American's I don't want to beat senseless on one hand (and yes, i've been to America. Twice, so i've met a fair number) - i'm probably just going to the wrong places, but the majority of them strike me as self-important, arrogent, sexually insecure twats. Funnily enough I found myself going to the Goth places (again, on the whole i'm not a big fan of Goths) and talking with a few of the less whiney ones. It was a little depressing, but it was infinatly more enjoyable (It actually raised Goth's up abit on my people I don't mind socialising with because atleast I now know some of them arn't in it as part of some pissy get-back-at-my-parents-for-not-buying-me-enough-toys revenge plot) than watching Jock Jr. slap his buddies on the ass and asking me stupid shit like "Why do you call soccer football?" and "Rugy? That sounds like a girls game" (the chick's wern't that much better, but atleast some of them were attractive and they found my accent cute - god knows why )

So yeah, American's = Not my favourite people. However, i'm not the sort of person who's going to tell sombody that how they deal with whatever (grief in this case) is stupid and pointless otherwise i'd be no better than those fuckwad jocks slapping each others asses.

 

[Escape]

What you mean the Holocaust?

More Japanese died in the firebombings of Tokyo than Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined. Plus before I start weeping over the Japanese I just think of all the Chinese in Nanking (or any people occupied by the Japanese) or the POWs. Maybe you should think about what the Japanese got upto in WW2 before you start talking out of your arse.

Civilians shouldn't be punished for the acts of their soldiers abroad.

Else you could justify nuking the US for all of the murders they're responsible for in other countries. The Iraq sanctions were a disaster, and even now most people are ignorant of the millions of lives it affected. Adults and Children died in their thousands through starvation, lack of medicine and drinking water. Both of the UN ambassadors to Iraq resigned in protest over the sanctions.

Western media glossed over what was happening, but Arab channles showed it all. So over the past two decades anger was building up at the US for their treatment of Iraqi civilians, and then 9/11 happend. Which Americans think was an unwarranted attack on them. Maybe if they knew the reality of their government's actions in other countries, they'd understand the hatred towards US citizens.

 

[haarewin]

as for spending the moeny on the "Show" well imo help sort out the homelss problem , what they spent could of paid for 1,500 more works for the shelters.

Mayor Giuliani did something about the 'homeless problem'. he had them all killed.

There wasnt even a minute's silence at work this year, tbh i think most people have forgotten about it.

Some stuff i've read (which i cant recall where etc, prolly all those 'anti bush' authors ) suggests that the Bush administration knew (and the Clinton administration before them, even) about this possible 'terrorist attack', and Bush did nothing about it, except cut the funding into the anti-terror programs Clinton had set up.

 

[Wij]

September the 11th will always be remembered for what it was. The biggest terrorist attack in history.

End of. If you dont like remembering, dont. Let those that want to, mourn in peace.

To Sigurd. You sir are the biggest maggot in history. You really need to get a life cos all you spout on these boards is a whine of some sort. You must of been an abused child to have so much hate inside you. Id suggest some sort of therapy, seriously.

Gosh - someone speaking sense in this thread ??

 

[old.Tohtori]

September the 11th will always be remembered for what it was. The biggest terrorist attack in history.

End of. If you dont like remembering, dont. Let those that want to, mourn in peace.

Actually i never did say or try to say that they shouldn't mourn. Ofcourse people have a 110% right to mourn their loss.

What i did ask is, why this is such a "tragedy" and the happenings in middle-east(or other parts of the world) arn't considered as bad.

Let's say it like this: Is the life of an american civilian more important to remember then the one of a saudi arabian or an iraqi?

Though i have to say, i can't NOT remember the day because of all the news covarage on it every year. Kinda in your face, no?

Hope this clears atleast my, how to say, amazement on it.

 

[Bunnytwo]

Civilians shouldn't be punished for the acts of their soldiers abroad.

Else you could justify nuking the US for all of the murders they're responsible for in other countries. The Iraq sanctions were a disaster, and even now most people are ignorant of the millions of lives it affected. Adults and Children died in their thousands through starvation, lack of medicine and drinking water. Both of the UN ambassadors to Iraq resigned in protest over the sanctions.

Western media glossed over what was happening, but Arab channles showed it all. So over the past two decades anger was building up at the US for their treatment of Iraqi civilians, and then 9/11 happend. Which Americans think was an unwarranted attack on them. Maybe if they knew the reality of their government's actions in other countries, they'd understand the hatred towards US citizens.

Well for a start you say civilians shouldn't be punished for the actions of their troops abroad but present US treatment of Iraqi civilians as a reasonable motive for 9/11. Well that works both ways. Hiroshioma and Nagasaki were legitimate targets, no different from Toyko which as pointed out in earlier post more people died in than both Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined.

As for the UN sanctions killing thousands of civilians, nope they didn't, Iraq under the sanctions was allowed to trade oil for food and medicines, fact is funds supposed to go to feeding the population and providing medicines were being syphoned off by the regime. Bleeding hearts like George Galloway were playing into Saddam's hands by decrying the sanctions, it was the regime who was to blame for civilian deaths, if they had dropped the sanctions any scumbag would be sent the message "Hey why worry about sanctions, just let your population starve and they'll be dropped".

 

[Jeeves]

As for the UN sanctions killing thousands of civilians, nope they didn't, Iraq under the sanctions was allowed to trade oil for food and medicines

Don't worry Iraqi's we won't let you all die, as long as you give us YOUR oil.
Indeed, how nice of them.

 

[Driwen]

Don't worry Iraqi's we won't let you all die, as long as you give us YOUR oil.
Indeed, how nice of them.

uhm the sanctions was that Iraq couldnt trade oil, except for food and medicines. Atleast thats what I understood of it.
So if there was no sanctions than it would be, you give us oil and we give you food, medicine and money to rebuild your army. So the sanctions didnt actually gave the west more access to Iraqs oil, it probably gave us less.

 

[Lorra]

Because it was pretty much the first time in their history that so many people had died on home-soil due to outside aggression.

ROFL because amercians have so much of there own history
must be like only 150 years or something?

 

[Escape]

Well for a start you say civilians shouldn't be punished for the actions of their troops abroad but present US treatment of Iraqi civilians as a reasonable motive for 9/11.

I'm guessing it was part of the motive for what happend, why does that seem improbable to you? The amount of stereotyped crap you post suggests you don't think about, or analyse the situation from both sides. Instead you read pro-western propoganda and live in this idealistic world where the west are the good guys and the east are the bad guys. Little revelation for you, there are no 'good' guys.

The nukes in Japan and the demolishment of the twin towers carried the same message: Stop fucking with us or we will destroy you!


The "Food for Oil" program was a fiasco, badly managed by both sides. This is, or should be common knowledge? Until you start reading unbiased reports, I'd suggest you stay away from debating these issues.

 

[Wij]

Motive == excuse ???

I hope you're on the jury whenever I feel like murdering someone.

 

[Sigurd]

September the 11th will always be remembered for what it was. The biggest terrorist attack in history.

End of. If you dont like remembering, dont. Let those that want to, mourn in peace.

To Sigurd. You sir are the biggest maggot in history. You really need to get a life cos all you spout on these boards is a whine of some sort. You must of been an abused child to have so much hate inside you. Id suggest some sort of therapy, seriously.

Since mods only delete my posts and not others: you're a fucktard. Can't deal with the truth eh?

 

[Binky the Bomb]

The terrorists wanted media attention, and they got it. They wanted to start the Jyhad with the west (I.E. wanted a holy war), they got the americans, brits and several european countries pissed off (that are also inherantly christian/catholic countries by the majority), so they kind of succeded there.

The 9/11 tradgedy had to be the most spectaculare terrorist attack in history (conspirecy assisde for a moment), but thats not to say that it's the only one that ever happened. Britain has undergone over 100 years of terrorist attacks from various "causes" from the IRA (obviously) to the various Arabic religious groups that use violence as a political tool.

There are numerous instances throughout europe, especially with germany, that displays more of the same. As the saying goes "same shit, different date.", how many times did the IRA plant bombs around mainland britain during the last 30 years. Christ, it was practically a tradition, at one point, to flick the news on to see which train station was hit during the early morning.

As for the conspirecy theories, fuck 'em and anybody coming out with 'em. Unless someone can come out with real, tangable proof, like a witness or a colaboator to them, then there nothing but smoke and mirrors used by people to draw attention to there own irrelovent opinions. And before anybody quotes me for a flame, think carefully, have you actually seen REAL proof for, or against, your theories? Real live proof thats right in front of you that you have examined and know to be 100% fact? Cos if not, then all you've got is a plot for the X-files, and nothing more.

And besides, more to the point (and this next bit isn't aimed at Sigurd, as compared to some of the sites i've visited, he's a rank amatur) if there opinion meant anything whatsoever, do you think they wuld have to peddle there "theories" on a game website's off-topic board? Don't you think they would be doing something slightly more interesting like "finding proof" to back up there claims? The 9/11 videos that are flying around are quite good, despite the obvious editing flaws in the pictures. But again, they lack any real substance as there nothing more that cheap low resolution imagery with lazly collected data and half assed research.

Fucking huge hole in new york where the disaster happened: Fact. All those people involved, dead or wounded: Fact. One little millionare Arab with his ego boost: Fact. Does anybody need more than this, realy? I have my OWN theory on the whole affair, but with respect for the dead and those who survived, plus the fact i can't prove a word of it, it will remain unspoken and unwritten until i can prove any of it.... or until someone else does, it realy doesn't matter.

Sigurd did get one thing right tho, there was a little fracas with china just before the 9/11 attack that could have lent towards war. Remember the spy plane that had to land in china because of engine trouble, big international inncident? I remember it well as they were collecting data (supposedly) on Korea and it's nuclear capability (at least that was the news being peddled at the time). The 9/11 attacks made that disappear pretty quick from the media, but it didn't get rid of the problem. Remember just after victory in Iraq was called? North Korea was supposedly pissing about with nuclear materials? Next news from Korea was that a 3 mile long freight train had exploded after hitting another train, causing one of the largest "non-nuclear" blasts in recent memory? And thats the last i heard of that. We gain much of our insite of the world around us through the media, so when they drop a story for something more recent, it's upto the governments to either get it back into the news, or sort it out "discreatly". However, can we prove that these events are linked in any way? No! But it does give food for thought.

Edit: Yeah, i cant beleive i wrote this pile of horse shit either, but i'm feeling in the mood to asert myself. Give me a few hours ill be back to my sarcastic self. If you have an opinion on my post, feel free to respond, if it's mindless blather, then send it me as a mail. There always good for a laugh.

 

[Sparrow]

What you mean the Holocaust?

On-going process, not a single event - however horrible it was.

More Japanese died in the firebombings of Tokyo than Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined. Plus before I start weeping over the Japanese I just think of all the Chinese in Nanking (or any people occupied by the Japanese) or the POWs. Maybe you should think about what the Japanese got upto in WW2 before...

Maybe you should think carefully over how much of the population of Hiroshima was to blame for what the Japanese military did, apart from being born in the wrong country? You're suggesting those innocent civilians deserved it.

...you start talking out of your arse.

Random insults really have no room in a levelheaded discussion.

 

[Marc]

Since mods only delete my posts and not others: you're a fucktard. Can't deal with the truth eh?

lol the truth ok. I really think that you have spouted so much bullshit on these boards for the past 2 and a half years that you are actually starting to believe, whatever full of shit story your brain conjures up next.

 

[Zodiac]

Because americans are fucktards.

Because its not everyday that 10000+ dies in one strike stupid... Its a reminder on how bad it can go, and a reminder why there have to be done _something_ against the powerful terror'ist in the world..

Antiamaricans = dead farts...

 

[Sissyfoo]

10,000+? Did I miss something?

 

[gimpchimp]

Woah, 10,000 plus? I think someone has made something up!

 

[Red HATred]

Q & A 's

humans exist for these things:

the urge to conquer, dominate , seek, destroy, surpress, lead , follow....

add the "opium off the ppl" to it (religion) and you get the most dangerous types of humans.
The lack off selfconfidence and possibilities to use talents make humans even more dangerous.
The only real problem in our World is religion, they promote peace and love but they create hate and war.

terrorism... just another form of hatred.....
Justifying their actions with words like, alah, god, satan, shivah, boedha and other totally fictionnal roleplay characters.
Religeous ppl are sick, they are the desease off the world.. the lack off confidence in life and the possibilities it gives makes em grasp for this fictional dope...
Another reason why ppl grasp for religion , the fear off death.. they need confert and a answer on that eternal question...

can we justify the action from terrorists?
No , they caused harm and pain..
yes, cause they are desperate souls from time to time that need help...

Who or what do you blame for those?
The lack of open minded ppl, i would say.
Politicians.>. religeous tits that started out with good intentions..; they gain power.. power makes corrupt.... corrupt power causes death, decay, surpression.... . One leader created a heap off shit, next leader has to continue with the created shit..

America..; doesn't exist... i feel sorry for the good willing ppl that live there..; they are surpressed by religeous bullshitting leaders that are just as good as Hitler or Stalin.... using mass hysteria to gain power... That "nation" is one of the most explosive coctails the world has ever known.

is there something that could be called perfect?
As it is now, No; Only evolution will tell..... if humans haven't exterminated their own species by then.

is there any use in discussing topics like this?
Yes.. maybee some ppl can wake up... stop believing in those fictional things and start to believe in the only good thing: the power they have in their hearts to do good for OTHERS, not for personal gain.

Is there need to defend things like country and Nation?
on a personal level, humans love to have their own piece of land and spot they can call home. ppl will defend this, yes... but to what extent.
on a national level, No, borders are fictional.. markers of territorial behaviour..
History deceided where those lines were drawn...



if you want to continue discussing things like this....
study these concepts first:

Territorial behaviour
Animalistic side of humans
Culture / sub culture

age brings wisdom... but by then you are to old to do something about it...

live with it


final quote : religion lies under every rock , lives in every leaf, bleeds from every body..;it has no name and no Icon..... it is what we are

 

[Jupitus]

Since mods only delete my posts and not others: you're a fucktard. Can't deal with the truth eh?

Wrong. I delete the posts which overstep the boundaries of decency

 

[old.Tohtori]

How come feel that this discussion has derailed from what i originally meant...though no suprise there!

 

[Hawkwind]

A Day to

LOL you actually believe the american government somehow managed to miss 4 planes being hijacked in their own airspace and stood by watching them fly into their important crappy monuments? There is way too much evidence in favour of this "conspiracy"

I'll go with sissyfoo on this one. Sigurd, you should keep out of discussions you know bugger all about.

Firstly, how could you tell that those four aircraft were all hijacked? All were out of contact with the ground and alarms were raised. It could have been techincal problems. It has happened in the past. Only two forms of comms on most modern jets HF Radio and Satelite phone. In the US there is a third system, a ground based air/ground phone system called NATS. The lose of all communication with several aircraft did cause alarm bells to ring with ATC (Air Traffic Control). They even scrambled F16's from two locations near washington and New York. Within in minutes of realising what was occuring (Twin Towers) all civillian aircraft were grounded. All carriers were told to contact all their aircraft still in the air and report back. Hundreds of N registered (US) aircraft alone.

Secondly, could you even imagine the dilema of having several hundred of your own citizens in the air and having to make a decision on whether to blow them out of the sky or not.

Conspiracy theory! honestly if thats the best you can come up with stop playing DAOC for 5 minutes and take in some real life. :kissit:

 

[Bunnytwo]

Maybe you should think carefully over how much of the population of Hiroshima was to blame for what the Japanese military did, apart from being born in the wrong country? You're suggesting those innocent civilians deserved it.

Random insults really have no room in a levelheaded discussion.

Didn't claim the Japanese civilians were to blame for the actions of the military, I just find it rather pathetic that you single out Hiroshima as the most evil/brutal/etc act when the Japanese themselves raped, tortured and butchered millions of civilians on a prolonged and systematic basis (the general who organised the Rape of Nanking was decorated by the Emperor for how well he carried it out), but somehow dropping a bomb on one of their cities is sooo much worse.

When you actually start being level headed I'll stop saying that you're talking out of your arse.

 

[Bunnytwo]

Secondly, could you even imagine the dilema of having several hundred of your own citizens in the air and having to make a decision on whether to blow them out of the sky or not.

Too right they were damned if they shot them down damned if they didn't.

 

[Bunnytwo]

I'm guessing it was part of the motive for what happend, why does that seem improbable to you? The amount of stereotyped crap you post suggests you don't think about, or analyse the situation from both sides. Instead you read pro-western propoganda and live in this idealistic world where the west are the good guys and the east are the bad guys. Little revelation for you, there are no 'good' guys.

The nukes in Japan and the demolishment of the twin towers carried the same message: Stop fucking with us or we will destroy you!


The "Food for Oil" program was a fiasco, badly managed by both sides. This is, or should be common knowledge? Until you start reading unbiased reports, I'd suggest you stay away from debating these issues.

Unbiased reports, try finding a report by anyone that is unbiased. Though somehow I think the ones that fit with your perspective are by definition unbiased.

I can't say that I claim the West are good East are bad, however do find it a joke when people such as yourself who really should stop reading the Guardian so much believe the East good West bad.

Yes food for oil program was badly managed, because the regime was allowed to syphon off the fund generated. Saw a story where this child died of malnutrition in the UK, father was in court and claimed he didn't have enough money to feed the child. When asked about the child benefit he received he replied "That was my fag money".

Suppose you'd claim he had a point :touch: