Football The 2012 / 2013 Season Thread

[Vladamir]

Fucking LOL, what a game!

 

[gunner440]

hahaha WTF

 

[Billargh]

Come on, 6-6!

 

[Billargh]

Oh my fucking god man

 

[Ch3tan]

jesus h christ!

Now that is what football is all about.

 

[gunner440]

Come on, 6-6!

5-7*

 

[soze]

Fuck Me what a game

 

[Billargh]

5-7*

I was right about there being another goal at least!

 

[Calaen]

Giroud actually looks the part tbh, and another couple of youngsters who look like they know how to play football.

Cracking match to watch end to end no fannying around.

 

[ileks]

Just seen the score, wish i had watched the game now! Best way to get the highlights?

 

[Ch3tan]

Full replay at 12.30am on Sky sports 1

 

[Embattle]

Arsenal forward Theo Walcott: "We showed everyone what we can do. We never gave up and we are absolutely knackered. We had to be very direct in our play, and Jason Roberts caused us problems all night, but we just showed our character, and a lot of young players gained good experience tonight. Hopefully we can take that into the Premier League. We were good going forward, but maybe we were not great defensively at times."

Interesting take, certainly not mine.

 

[Calaen]

I think he summed it up perfectly, hes obviously not going to mention the fact that arshavin did fuck all apart from create the 6th goal, or that Chamakh wouldn't hit water if he fell off a boat in the middle of a lake.

 

[Scouse]

"Shut up you monkey" is allegedly what Clattenburg said.

Of course, that could never be said in a non-racist way, eh? I use that phrase myself occasionally.

Cuntski.

 

[rynnor]

"Shut up you monkey" is allegedly what Clattenburg said.

Of course, that could never be said in a non-racist way, eh? I use that phrase myself occasionally.

Cuntski.

Seriously? You probably think monkey chants are fine too eh? Its all about context - anyone with half a braincell should know that saying that to a black player is unacceptable. Its aggravated by the person saying it being in a position of power over the player he's addressing.

If that's what was really said that should be an end to his reffing days tbh - if only because how could a ref with a racism charge proven hold a position that requires the respect of the players.

 

[soze]

If he said that to a black player and it is a big IF in my mind then his career is over. If he said it to a white player in a cheeky monkey type of context then it is nothing.

 

[Scouse]

Seriously? You probably think monkey chants are fine too eh? Its all about context - anyone with half a braincell should know that saying that to a black player is unacceptable. Its aggravated by the person saying it being in a position of power over the player he's addressing.

If that's what was really said that should be an end to his reffing days tbh - if only because how could a ref with a racism charge proven hold a position that requires the respect of the players.

Fuck off rynnor. Of course I don't think monkey chants are fine. This is the problem with racism - people are so quick to jump on the "omg! racist!!" bandwagon that an actual discussion of how things really are is completely impossible.

If Clattenburg did say it then he's probably the type of guy who uses it in his everyday language. Nice and relaxed - calls his mates monkeys (I do sometimes - and I get called it). It probably never even occured to him to not say it to a black person as thoughts of race were probably nowhere near his mind.

And that's where racism exists - in the minds of racists.

If you're not a racist then it's easy to see how you could say something that could be construed as racist when it 100% isn't.

I think the complaint would never have been made if Obi Mikel had heard Clattenburg himself, rather than experiencing second-hand outrage - how is he supposed to understand the "context" if he didn't even hear the comment?


I don't think calling a black person a "monkey" is automatically racist. That's a massive oversimplification of the issue. Tabloid-thinking for retards.

 

[rynnor]

If Clattenburg did say it then he's probably the type of guy who uses it in his everyday language. Nice and relaxed - calls his mates monkeys (I do sometimes - and I get called it). It probably never even occured to him to not say it to a black person as thoughts of race were probably nowhere near his mind.

This wasn't him out with his mates so your whole arguement falls down - you may argue there are times when the comment may not be racist but plainly this isnt one of those times as he should have known.

I don't think hes going to get done for it because there's a lack of proof but he will come out of it tainted - they really ought to record the refs mic to avoid this in the future.

 

[Scouse]

he should have known

You can only "know" something when you're aware of it.

Much of conversation is generated unconsciously - so if you were a racist you'd have to be consciously trying to avoid saying something racist as it'd be in your mind when talking to a black player - but if you're not racist then you'd have to be doing something completely un-natural to avoid it.

This is one of the reasons why I don't think it should be illegal to say racist things. The outlawing of views - "thought crime" - means that the entirely innocent or naive are going to get disproportionately punished whereas the actual villains will naturally curb their views in public yet reinforce them in private.

 

[DaGaffer]

Seriously? You probably think monkey chants are fine too eh? Its all about context - anyone with half a braincell should know that saying that to a black player is unacceptable. Its aggravated by the person saying it being in a position of power over the player he's addressing.

If that's what was really said that should be an end to his reffing days tbh - if only because how could a ref with a racism charge proven hold a position that requires the respect of the players.

Well, since he flat out denies it, there's no evidence of him saying it (including from the person he's supposed to have said it to!), and the accusation has come second-hand from a bunch of axe-grinders out to make a name for themselves, hopefully this bullshit will go away. This comment from "The Society of Black Lawyers" Chairman Peter Herbert really made my blood boil;

Herbert admitted his complaint was based on reports rather than first-hand evidence, but added: "We weren't there but we don't need to be there in order to report an incident. This appears to have had some cogency and so it needs to be addressed as a matter of urgency. I think the Met police have huge resources, expertise, and I have no doubt that this matter will be resolved and the truth will come out. If we've got this completely wrong then, of course, the police will tell us."

Says it all really, "hey, let's use the public purse to fund this trivial shite. It costs us nothing and we get a bit of PR for our bullshit organisation". Cunt.

 

[rynnor]

Until racism is completely dead (which it isnt) then certain words are too tainted to be used. We still live in a world ruled by rich white guys and in that reality only a fool uses a racially charged word with people who may take it to heart - its basic racial sensitivity.

We are not in some idyllic post racism scenario.

 

[Scouse]

Until racism is completely dead (which it isnt) then certain words are too tainted to be used

I think the freedom of an individual to be himself is a more important issue than racism.

 

[eksdee]

You can only "know" something when you're aware of it.

While I agree with the sentiment of most of what you're saying, are you suggesting here that Clattenburg was potentially unaware that calling a black player a 'monkey' would more than likely have very serious racial connotations - especially given many recent, and very public, events in football?

I couldn't agree more that racism lives only in the minds of racists but most of what you describe is, sadly, idealism rather than reality imo.

 

[rynnor]

Whatever - we aren't going to agree and this isn't really the thread for this so I'm out.

(in response to Scouses post btw )

 

[Scouse]

While I agree with the sentiment of most of what you're saying, are you suggesting here that Clattenburg was potentially unaware that calling a black player a 'monkey' would more than likely have very serious racial connotations - especially given many recent, and very public, events in football?

No, what I'm saying is that Clattenburg isn't racist and that, after innocently calling someone a monkey (using the term in a non-racial non-slur fashion), someone else stirred the shit - like some cunt schoolkid who puts their hand up and goes "Miss! - johnny said willie!"

He doesn't deserve a thing. An investigation isn't warranted. It's a non-event being stoked by a club that's acting in a cuntish manner and taken on board by a cuntish press acting in a cuntish manner.

And poor Mr Clattenburg, the non-racist, is getting right royally fucked over for doing nothing wrong.

Whatever - we aren't going to agree and this isn't really the thread for this so I'm out.

Me too.

 

[eksdee]

Surely you have to recognise that whether he sees it as being a racist term or not, and irrespective of the manner in which he said it, if a word has racist connotations then using it is ill advised. He should know this, and really it would be almost unbelievable to suggest he doesn't, which is why this whole thing seems completely improbable. I don't believe you can 'innocently' call a black player a monkey any more than you could call them a nigger and it be okay because you're 'not racist'. That opens up a whole barrel of possibilities for people to call people vile things and then claim 'I'm not that sort of bloke'.

 

[soze]

What if he called Mata a monkey and Mikel overheard when used in that was it is not intended as being racist but if Mikel hears it and reports it then is it racist?

 

[Scouse]

What if he called Mata a monkey and Mikel overheard when used in that was it is not intended as being racist but if Mikel hears it and reports it then is it racist?

That's ridiculous. If Clattenburg was at the zoo and called a monkey* a monkey, does it become racist when Mikel reports it?

*or called one of his kids a monkey, or anyone...

 

[soze]

That's ridiculous. If Clattenburg was at the zoo and called a monkey* a monkey, does it become racist when Mikel reports it?

*or called one of his kids a monkey, or anyone...

Thats the point I was making. If he called Mata a monkey and not Mikel it can not be racist. Monkey is a subjective racialword so without being aimed at a black person its not racist.

 

[cHodAX]

Thats the point I was making. If he called Mata a monkey and not Mikel it can not be racist. Monkey is a subjective racialword so without being aimed at a black person its not racist.

Yep, exactly my thoughts. If that is how it turns out then Chelsea deserve to be charged, they are feeling far too butthurt for themselves over the whole JT incident and if they have created this shitstorm because they are feeling sorry for themselves then they deserve to be hit fucking hard.