Football The 2011/2012 Season Thread

[Gray]

So i hear some Quatari's are interested in investing in Everton/Blackburn, piss off Blackburn, we need it more than you plus you've already had your turn!

 

[Everz]

The sooner the Premier League fucks off to make some shitty Europe Super League the better.

 

[Everz]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/15711827.stm

Dago's a bit bitter eh?

 

[Shagrat]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/15711827.stm

Dago's a bit bitter eh?

"someone didnt let us play our passing game and win 4-0 wah wah wah"

 

[Corran]

The sooner the Premier League fucks off to make some shitty Europe Super League the better.

and what will the current prem teams that wont be in a european super league do? Other then go backwards because they wont have the PL money, which means they wont afford the players that they can by using that, which means the quality in the rest of the teams becomes shit and worthless... infact it be like watching the national team play

 

[Keitanz]

"someone didnt let us play our passing game and win 4-0 wah wah wah"

Really, as someone who went, I would have much preferred it if England totally went for it and at least tried to play football, so what if we got smashed 4 or 5-0? it's a friendly..

 

[Corran]

Really, as someone who went, I would have much preferred it if England totally went for it and at least tried to play football, so what if we got smashed 4 or 5-0? it's a friendly..

because in a tournament they wont be able to do that in knockout stages.... so it good practice to play the manner you need to against a much superior opposition.
now they need to learn to pass as well as defend, and retain possession. until we do that the only way to get near a final is luck

 

[Everz]

Really, as someone who went, I would have much preferred it if England totally went for it and at least tried to play football, so what if we got smashed 4 or 5-0? it's a friendly..

And that is why your a silly cunt and one of the reasons why England players couldn't give a flying fuck about the national team.

What sort of moron plays Spain at Spain's game?

These games are preperation for a tournament in which we need to play to our strength, we can't outpass a team, but what we can do is solidly defend and try nab a goal at set pieces. Italy did this and guess fucking what? They went and won the damn thing.

What is it with plastics and there total lack of understanding of tactics?

 

[Vladamir]

He's not a plastic m8 he went to the game!

 

[Everz]

True dat but still, it's idiocy to think want England to play attacking football when with the current squad we have got is more suited to a defense style of play, we need to work on retaining possession and passing under pressure but other then that we are no different to Italy of 2006 imo.

 

[Calaen]

Apart from the fact they had a better keeper, defenders and midefielders

Fact is we learnt nothing from the game, we simply papered over the cracks. Walcott has already done an interview saying that this proves the squad is strong enough to do well in the euros. The players are dillusional, Spain have lost 4 of their last 8 friendlies so it's hardly a big deal to them, they already know they need to avoid giving away set pieces so then they will not concede silly goals. England on the other hand can simply say we defended alright with 10 players in our own half. We should be trying to play our own game which isn't sitting behind the ball, that only works when yuo can actually pass the fucking thing when you have it or else teams are going to score against you more times than not!!

 

[CorNokZ]

Denmark plays better football than England and that's a fact. Would love to meet you sometime soon to prove it

 

[Everz]

Apart from the fact they had a better keeper, defenders and midefielders

Fact is we learnt nothing from the game, we simply papered over the cracks. Walcott has already done an interview saying that this proves the squad is strong enough to do well in the euros. The players are dillusional, Spain have lost 4 of their last 8 friendlies so it's hardly a big deal to them, they already know they need to avoid giving away set pieces so then they will not concede silly goals. England on the other hand can simply say we defended alright with 10 players in our own half. We should be trying to play our own game which isn't sitting behind the ball, that only works when yuo can actually pass the fucking thing when you have it or else teams are going to score against you more times than not!!

Jesus fucking Christ, what is it with you people? Play football against Spain and be prepared to get torn a new arsehole. Did you even know there lineups for any of these friendlies they lost? They had Javi Martinez as centre back for godsake.

If you learnt nothing from that then please remove yourself from ever following football. We did what every team has had to do in order to beat Barcelona/Spain. We do not.. I repeat DO NOT have the attacking talent in order to play good football, what we do have is a defensively solid unit that can invite pressure on and succeed at holding it. Did you not notice Spain were reduced to long shots and punts forward?, and you dismiss this as lucky and terrible?

No wonder our players couldn't give a shit, they actually did really good in what was a tournament style match and people are giving them shit for not attacking Spain? I swear people do not even grasp the common idea of tactics, do you think Italy gave a shit when they defended there way to the WC in 2006? No.. no they fucking didn't, why? Because it played to their strengths.

We learnt alot in my opinion. Spain do not like to be under pressure, they crumble when someone is on them instantly, they didn't like pace as Pique/Puyol are far to slow, and if they can't play their game they get frustrated and loose focus. They can be beaten and that a given, the team to watch for this are Germany as they do not seem to suffer these issues.

 

[Vladamir]

Difference is Germany will try and play Spain at their own game, whether they succeed or not depends entirely on how they defend (and whether Lollersacker plays )

 

[Everz]

Germany are the team to beat imo. They are the equals to Spain in that there is quality in depth in all the positions. As noted the Germany now is a much different foe to the Germany of past.. it's not just Ballack dragging everyone with him.. but a whole fucking team of Ballacks.

They're my favourites to win.

And yes, Germany will try and play Spain at their own game and why? Because they have the talent to do so, something that we do not have.

 

[Calaen]

Jesus fucking Christ, what is it with you people? Play football against Spain and be prepared to get torn a new arsehole. Did you even know there lineups for any of these friendlies they lost? They had Javi Martinez as centre back for godsake.

If you learnt nothing from that then please remove yourself from ever following football. We did what every team has had to do in order to beat Barcelona/Spain. We do not.. I repeat DO NOT have the attacking talent in order to play good football, what we do have is a defensively solid unit that can invite pressure on and succeed at holding it. Did you not notice Spain were reduced to long shots and punts forward?, and you dismiss this as lucky and terrible?

No wonder our players couldn't give a shit, they actually did really good in what was a tournament style match and people are giving them shit for not attacking Spain? I swear people do not even grasp the common idea of tactics, do you think Italy gave a shit when they defended there way to the WC in 2006? No.. no they fucking didn't, why? Because it played to their strengths.

We learnt alot in my opinion. Spain do not like to be under pressure, they crumble when someone is on them instantly, they didn't like pace as Pique/Puyol are far to slow, and if they can't play their game they get frustrated and loose focus. They can be beaten and that a given, the team to watch for this are Germany as they do not seem to suffer these issues.

Tournament style match are you fucking joking? As for the rest of your comments it's all meh. Spain are the best team in the world at taking the ball under pressure, because they believe in their own ability to maintain possession. Of course if you get in their face it puts them under a bit more pressure, but 99 times out of 100 they will win. As I saidi in an earlier post, The Swiss beat them in the World Cup 1-0 using exactly the same tactics. Spain won most of their matches by the odd goal as well on the way to winning it. It means fuck all, if against the other teams you are playing against you can't do the simple things like erm... pass the ball to a team mate 7 yards away. We might as well not have had Bent or Wellbeck up front, we should use a marathon runner so he can just keep running back and forward for a full 90 minutes without actually doing anything.

We do have attacking talent, Johnson, Walcott, Rooney, Bent, Gerard, Lampard. What we have never had is the technique nor the set up to allow these players to play their natural game. You learn more from your team after a defeat especially if you are trying something new. We parked the bus at home in a friendly, go us.... What happens iif you concede an early goal?? do you change your negative tactics? do they even have a plan for that? We don't know now do we... because we didn't have a go in a nothing match.

By all means carry on being a typically deluded englishman after a pointless victory. No doubt you've already placed a bet for us to roflstomp the Euros and win!!

I repeat any team in the world can sit with 10 men behind the ball and come away with a shock victory now and again. It's hardly somethign new!!!!!

 

[Everz]

Tournament style match are you fucking joking? As for the rest of your comments it's all meh. Spain are the best team in the world at taking the ball under pressure, because they believe in their own ability to maintain possession. Of course if you get in their face it puts them under a bit more pressure, but 99 times out of 100 they will win. As I saidi in an earlier post, The Swiss beat them in the World Cup 1-0 using exactly the same tactics. Spain won most of their matches by the odd goal as well on the way to winning it. It means fuck all, if against the other teams you are playing against you can't do the simple things like erm... pass the ball to a team mate 7 yards away. We might as well not have had Bent or Wellbeck up front, we should use a marathon runner so he can just keep running back and forward for a full 90 minutes without actually doing anything.

We do have attacking talent, Johnson, Walcott, Rooney, Bent, Gerard, Lampard. What we have never had is the technique nor the set up to allow these players to play their natural game. You learn more from your team after a defeat especially if you are trying something new. We parked the bus at home in a friendly, go us.... What happens iif you concede an early goal?? do you change your negative tactics? do they even have a plan for that? We don't know now do we... because we didn't have a go in a nothing match.

By all means carry on being a typically deluded englishman after a pointless victory. No doubt you've already placed a bet for us to roflstomp the Euros and win!!

I repeat any team in the world can sit with 10 men behind the ball and come away with a shock victory now and again. It's hardly somethign new!!!!!

Tournament style match, are these not preperation for Euro 2012? If we approach these games with the knockout mentality then it will only benefit us in the long run. Really? If you've watched them they didn't like it when teams pressure them, you get on top of them in that game and Spain begin to falter, and as noted pace scares the daylights out there back four.

Retaining possession was terrible and as I stated it was something that we need to work on but other then that it was a positive sign that a defense stood firm against the most fluid attacking side in the world, reducing them to long shots or overly ambitious passes.

Do you even realise how a target man works, Welbeck did his job immensely tbh, he was the target upfront for any clearances, his holdup play was brilliant and lead to breaks which with better decisions could have lead to a goal, this is a sensible way to play and again plays to our strengths.

Really? Those are attacking talents that we posses, god help us if so. They are no patch on the attacking array that the 'good football' sides posses. Wheres our Ozil? Wheres our Xavi? Wheres our Iniesta? Wheres our Podolski? Wheres our Lahm? Wheres our Gomez?.. the list can go on. We don't have the players in order to play fluid flowing football against these attacking nations, what we have is an effective defensive unit and players with pace, with this we can easily play a strong counter attacking game in these fixtures.

Do you not gather that we have just seen is an effective plan A/B? That we have the option to play an attacking game against weaker nations but also the tactic and line-up to cope with the nations who'd rip us a new one if we came at them attacking.

Theres no delusions and I'm not shouting off the roof that this is a certainty we will win anything, but it is a huge positive note. Good teams need to adapt to win in a competition. Uruguay did this in there games in the Copa and they won, Chile stuck with the same tactic of beautiful football over the result and look at them now, they've slipped in 10 goals in 3 matches and look a shambles.

If you can't understand that we do not possess the players in order to go toe-to-toe with a 'good attacking nation' e.g. Spain or Germany then please, do not bother replying because you clearly have a default lack of understanding about the way football works and would rather see players 'have a go' then get a result.

 

[JingleBells]

All I can say is that watching England trying to play possession football (like at the end of the Spain game, and more noticeably in the Wales qualifier) is one of the funniest sights to behold. The amount of over/under-hit passes and generally poor control is astonishing, if Pep Guardiola tried to manage the England side he'd be unable to play his style of football as we just don't have players with the requisite skills!

Also Scott Parker is brilliant, a great signing for Spurs - I saw him at our game at Wigan, he's pretty much got a 6th sense and was able to intercept countless Wigan passes by reading the play

 

[Calaen]

If we get beat 1-0 while playing this way against a Spain or a Germany in the knock out stages of a tournament, You won't be saynig how unlucky we were. You'd be complaining we didn't have a plan B. We went toe to toe with Germany and granted we had a very poor tournament, we had a goal disallowed that could have changed the game. Germany don't have a Gerard, they don't have a Rooney. Most teams have a player or two that they would rob. Germany are the team they are now (one everyone raves about) because they express themselves on the pitch, because they practice at it. You are never going to improve your passing game if you are intent on sitting back in your own half, hoofing the ball upfront. Wellbeck could be Alan Shearer and I really rate the lad, but he's wasted as a run around, if you watched the under 21's in the summer you'd know what I am talking about.

Our under 21's used this same defensive mentality in the summer and under achieved with the talent they had in the squad. Our youth teams should be concentrating on keeping and passing the ball. As Ch3t has already said having someone like Owen Coyle who understands and enjoys the technical/flair side of a players ability should be the way forward for us. Not Stuard (loads of Passion) Pearce who is way out of his depth!!!

 

[Everz]

If we get beat 1-0 while playing this way against a Spain or a Germany in the knock out stages of a tournament, You won't be saynig how unlucky we were. You'd be complaining we didn't have a plan B. We went toe to toe with Germany and granted we had a very poor tournament, we had a goal disallowed that could have changed the game. Germany don't have a Gerard, they don't have a Rooney. Most teams have a player or two that they would rob. Germany are the team they are now (one everyone raves about) because they express themselves on the pitch, because they practice at it. You are never going to improve your passing game if you are intent on sitting back in your own half, hoofing the ball upfront. Wellbeck could be Alan Shearer and I really rate the lad, but he's wasted as a run around, if you watched the under 21's in the summer you'd know what I am talking about.

Our under 21's used this same defensive mentality in the summer and under achieved with the talent they had in the squad. Our youth teams should be concentrating on keeping and passing the ball. As Ch3t has already said having someone like Owen Coyle who understands and enjoys the technical/flair side of a players ability should be the way forward for us. Not Stuard (loads of Passion) Pearce who is way out of his depth!!!

What part of this tactic should be a plan A only against the stronger attacking sides do you not get? Germany don't have a Gerrard or a Rooney? Get to sweet fuck they ain't, they've got a million miles better in attack then we can ever muster. We went toe-to-toe with a young German side, they have now had a year and half in order to gel and they look an extremely strong and improved unit.

The passing game starts at a young age, at grass roots level. Our players didn't have that and thus will not garner that, and I again stress. YOU WILL NOT OUT PASS GERMANY OR SPAIN.. that felt better, maybe you will understand now.

I am wholly not saying this is a tactic that will ever work against the weaker nations, this where we should express ourselves and show our attacking power but a defensive mentality and tactic is needed, you can't stand toe-to-toe when the tools required aren't there, simply, fucking, put.

Retaining possession needs to be worked on immensely, the players need to not panic. We played to Spain's weakness, there lack of composure when frustrated and the lack of pace in the back four. It wasn't as effective as it should be but it was a good showing in the 2nd half.

Again, I'll ask the question? What is it with the perceived idea that we should have a go at teams, and then get shafted on?

Morale plays a huge part in football and winning is a mentality that sticks, to get a victory and play ugly is worth a hell of a lot more then losing and playing good. Just ask the Welsh, once that mentality has struck then the progress can be shown and the belief is set in there that they can do it.

All I can say is learn England's limit, analyse the squad and come back to me when you'll gave me a detailed reasoning as to how we could have outplayed Spain at fluid, possession based football?

 

[Everz]

And as for the future, I agree the change needs to be made from the bottom level, but you won't change the tools that are already at hand. We have to use what we have now and go forth from there, we don't have the players to compete on any level with a solid footballing nation.

 

[rynnor]

I thought it was a good result - rarely have I seen the back 4 so solid for england - there may have been more flair in earlier teams but its all about results.

 

[Everz]

I thought it was a good result - rarely have I seen the back 4 so solid for england - there may have been more flair in earlier teams but its all about results.

Seems someone has finally clicked hah. Kudos.

 

[Turamber]

Apart from the fact they had a better keeper, defenders and midefielders

Fact is we learnt nothing from the game, we simply papered over the cracks.

What hogwash. We learned we can't out-Spain Spain, but that we can defend, be resolute and grind out a win. Too many of the fans on here are followers of the top teams in the Premier League which are used to going out, scoring lots and winning games ... but that is mostly due to their superior foreign players.

England showed that we can be an underdog and get a result.

How many cracks were "papered over" by the thrashing Germany gave us at the World Cup? What good did that result do? Precisely f'all, the same as a hammering by Spain would have done.

 

[Calaen]

All I can say is that watching England trying to play possession football (like at the end of the Spain game, and more noticeably in the Wales qualifier) is one of the funniest sights to behold. The amount of over/under-hit passes and generally poor control is astonishing, if Pep Guardiola tried to manage the England side he'd be unable to play his style of football as we just don't have players with the requisite skills!

Also Scott Parker is brilliant, a great signing for Spurs - I saw him at our game at Wigan, he's pretty much got a 6th sense and was able to intercept countless Wigan passes by reading the play

Do you understand what you are saying?? You are giving players who earn hundreds of thousands of pounds a week/year an excuse. I don't give a shit whether you rate the players we have or not, they should be capable of maintaining posession. WBA do it, Swansea do it. with players of far less ability than our own international players. You don't suddenly become a football player at 30 years old, the first thing you do as a kid with a ball is pass it to someone else!

 

[Calaen]

What hogwash. We learned we can't out-Spain Spain, but that we can defend, be resolute and grind out a win. Too many of the fans on here are followers of the top teams in the Premier League which are used to going out, scoring lots and winning games ... but that is mostly due to their superior foreign players.

England showed that we can be an underdog and get a result.

How many cracks were "papered over" by the thrashing Germany gave us at the World Cup? What good did that result do? Precisely f'all, the same as a hammering by Spain would have done.

I beg to differ, we are now seeing far more youth injected into the squad. You'd still have heskey in the squad. It's got nothing to do with the premisrships top teams Turamber. It's all down to coaches at a grass routes level not giving a shit about player development and only caring about winning the game with a team full of players who are big for their age.

 

[Everz]

And you want to turn this around how Calaen.. within a year? Good plan mate, best get that time machine working asap!

The youth injected has been a great call and combining a resolute and solid back four performance against the best attacking team in the world.

This is wholly what is wrong with the Premier League generation, or more so the arm chair generation. No appreciation for midfield guile, no appreciation for a solid defensive performance, all they give a shit about is attacking and attacking and nothing more.

Grass roots is a work in progress and we have to work with what we have got now.. Euro 2012 is next year for fucks sake. The players we have now at grassroot level did not learn passing triangles, did not learn close control and playing within a small space at Grass Root level, this is obviously changing but it'll be another generation (or the likes of Wiltshere, McEachran etc etc) who'll bring this through, but for now we need to combine a solid back four with the assets of pace that we have got.

Glad you didn't answer my question btw, proves what little you know about football.

 

[ileks]

Couldn't put it much better than Everz there tbh. You will probably see the England you want against Sweden Calaen. Against Spain we got the tactics spot on for once.

 

[Everz]

Also comparing club football to international football.. terrible man.. fucking terrible.

 

[Calaen]

Also comparing club football to international football.. terrible man.. fucking terrible.

Why is that? are you trying to tell me Swansea and WBA have better resources and coaches than the England setup? Don't be stupid.

I have answered your question, it's not about going at teams and getting shafted, it's about testing what you can and can't do against said teams and a pointless friendly match is the perfect time to do it. Like I said what would have happened if we had of conceded a goal? we wno't know now will we because we were to scared to actually try and have a go. If your tactic for winning a football match is to not try and win a game then I tip my hat to you for your patience.