The 2 minstrels!

[Melachi-]

Originally posted by old.Morchaoron
however, you see that? overpowered in a STEALTH VS STEALTH ZERG, wow that happens often doesnt it? on pryd its stealth zerg vs stealther, the more stealthers the more powerful the minstrel becomes (due to its cc) and the easier it gets vs large numbers, kinda like with pbae in regular zergs and thats not considered 'overpowered' either is it?

You do realise, that savage is only overpowered when in a proper fg fighting other fg's. Not in PvE, not in keep takes, not in zergs. Does this mean hes not overpowered?

Originally posted by old.Morchaoron
also we didnt use mez/ae mez in that keeptake, we tanked the guards with our orange pets, and i understand it may come to you as a suprise but: that trick doesnt work on mids, silly isnt it? -.-

and still you have no idea how we exactly did it, i bet you wont be able to do it unless i told you...

And when i mentioned mezz climb walls ect being usefull in keep takes, I was not reffering to you and steveiriwins keep take. Again I have to reestablish, that what you and steveiriwns keep taking was NOT an image of the minstrels overpoweredness. Infact I congradulated you and said it must have been hard, since you have Low defense. PLEASE get it through your head that I didnt say you and another minstrel taking a keep meant you are overpowered, ive said this twice now, please dont insist I say it again. And I dont know how you did it, and I dont care either, but I think it must have been hard with a low defense class.

 

[Thorgald]

Remove chain from minstrels and problem fixed....

 

[VodkaFairy]

Originally posted by Thorgald
Remove chain from minstrels and problem fixed....

lol get a clue

---

Someone stated minstrels are one of the best 1 on 1 classes, whereas bards aren't. Though mincers are beaten by bards with a little luck and good play. Hence my previous post stating mincers aren't one of the best 1 on 1. Nobody said healers are good 1 on 1, and fyi I don't think they're really overpowered. The ae stun crap has to go but they're a pretty nice class overall.

Mincers have alot of utility, yes, but they aren't overpowered ;p Climb wall is not that great, very easy to counter. Err I cba going through all of the things a minstrel has. I just don't see any reasons mincers would be overpowered, they're one of the best support classes looking at utility, but it's not over the top.

 

[Tesla Monkor]

[we cant use ablative when we have a pet,]

Like hell you can't. Minstels can:

- Have a pet,
- Have speed,
- Have ablative

And all at the same time.

There is a thread on IGN from a minstrel that explained how to do it. ;P (It involves getting very tired fingers and lots of practice.

 

[krill-nyd]

Give stealth and climb walls to Skalds and Bards. Why should albion be the only realm to have such skills when there's clearly equivalent classes? And there are a lot of ways to view minstrels and decide if they are unbalanced or not. Solo I don't see they are and my experience is beating them more often than not even as a thane (if they are buffed I need IP and purge to make it an equal fight). But the problems some combinations of stealthers, especially minstrel and infil, can give seems to me overpowered. It's a clear advantage for albion stealth groups (as established by Rambo in his review of stealthers somewhere else in this forum), whether those gropus are fighting other stealthers or stalking non-stealthers. In fg v fg or major zerg, there's well worn arguments about the number of classes each realm needs to make optimum groups, no point going there and it doesn't make minstrels by themselves over-powered.

Final thing is, remember when two mids (savage and bd, the great Blackbyrd Family) got both doors down on a keep? I can't find the thread but my memory is that there was a lot of responses about 'working as intended' 'nerf' etc.

 

[SoulFly Amarok]

Hehe. Whining about minstrel again are we? Now let's see:

Mincer and infil, albs best classses.

Others are pure shitness when compared to mid/hib equivalents and albs need RA's to win is just shit ^^

So please, when you have your facts straight, come back and whine then.

ALB: Stealth
HIB: Magic
MID: Melee

 

[Tafaya Anathas]

What are mids and hibs want?

1. Nerf Albion's usable classes
2. Nerf Albion's usable RAs

They will only be happy when they meet an alb or an alb grp, the albs explode immediatly and they got the RPs?

 

[Melachi-]

Originally posted by SoulFly Amarok
Hehe. Whining about minstrel again are we? Now let's see:

Mincer and infil, albs best classses.

Others are pure shitness when compared to mid/hib equivalents and albs need RA's to win is just shit ^^

So please, when you have your facts straight, come back and whine then.

ALB: Stealth
HIB: Magic
MID: Melee

And by that logic I can say, Midgard is entitled to Savages since you have infils and mincers? Of course tough luck to Thanes btw, Savages took your 'balance' points. Terrible arguement.

Originally posted by Tafaya Anathas
What are mids and hibs want?

1. Nerf Albion's usable classes
2. Nerf Albion's usable RAs

They will only be happy when they meet an alb or an alb grp, the albs explode immediatly and they got the RPs?

Who is they? Are mids and hibs a difirent race in real life? Do certain personality types pick Midgard instead of Albion, and Albion instead of Hibernia? No, were all the same, so get over yourself. I'm all for balance, I'd like to see the savage nerfed as much as any Alb player. But just because the rest of the Albion realm is sub par does not mean the infil and minstrel have the right to be better.

 

[andrilyn]

Originally posted by krill-nyd
Give stealth and climb walls to Skalds and Bards. Why should albion be the only realm to have such skills when there's clearly equivalent classes?

Thats the same way I think about Clerics, why dont we have an AoE (insta) CC like both mid and hib main healers, simple because all 3 realms arent the same with exactly the same utilities on exactly the same classes.
Thats also a reason DaoC will never be 100% balanced.

 

[old.Morchaoron]

Originally posted by Tesla Monkor
[we cant use ablative when we have a pet,]

Like hell you can't. Minstels can:

- Have a pet,
- Have speed,
- Have ablative

And all at the same time.

There is a thread on IGN from a minstrel that explained how to do it. ;P (It involves getting very tired fingers and lots of practice.

i know how that works, however twisting speed with anything drains out endurance, and if we twist speed with ablative means we are in combat and the speed wont work on us, and if we twist ablative + pet we cant fight in melee, so its useless even tho you can do it....

yes you can do it when tanking mobs with a pet but hey thats really useful in 'RvR' isnt it?

 

[krill-nyd]

Ahhh the usual mature responses; to taste the foulness of Barrysworld just once more before it closes--that was obviously my unconscious reason for posting.

I can't see me asking for a nerf to Minstrels, I was just trying to respond to Morchaoron's increasingly desparate attempts to suggest Minstrels aren't a very good class. Hard to play I reckon but still very good. As for Alb's only usable classes, that's a bit over the top (which doesn't mean I'm saying all alb classes are perfect and all mid are terrible).

Anyway, isn't anyone going to respond to the idea that thanes are better one on one than minstrels? Come on! Thanes are accepted as the worst class in DAOC, it's our role!

So no, don't nerf Minstrels, boost Skalds and Bards! Give them stealth and climb walls.

 

[old.Morchaoron]

Originally posted by Melachi-
You do realise, that savage is only overpowered when in a proper fg fighting other fg's. Not in PvE, not in keep takes, not in zergs. Does this mean hes not overpowered?

like i said before, WHAT is the fucking impact of the minstrel??? well?

what is the impact of a savage?? see the difference?


look at a bd, a bd is probably even more overpowered then the savage, but what is his impact on rvr? see... not so overpowered anymore once you see what he can really do...

 

[haarewin]

Originally posted by andrilyn
Thats the same way I think about Clerics, why dont we have an AoE (insta) CC like both mid and hib main healers, simple because all 3 realms arent the same with exactly the same utilities on exactly the same classes.
Thats also a reason DaoC will never be 100% balanced.

someone never looked at his own classes smite line?

 

[Thorgald]

someone said that without stealth minstrels will be totally useless, exactly why would they be so useless without stealth? only thing that would differ would be that ud be more like the other 2 realms speed classes. and dont talk about shitty defence. a skald have just as shitty defence as a minstrel do, if not less (no ablative chant on the skald) ok sure, skalds can use 2 handed weapons and have a damage add, but that isnt a good enuff excuse to compare with as a skald rarly specc very high in their weapon, and if they by any chance DO specc 50 weapon then they got extreamly crappy DD's.

 

[Tafaya Anathas]

Originally posted by krill-nyd
So no, don't nerf Minstrels, boost Skalds and Bards! Give them stealth and climb walls.

The same ol' story. Give sorcerers or clerics or even earth wizards instant ae mezz or stun (not shitty, good-for-nothing "someone never looked at his own classes smite line" 200 radius pbaoe), and I will be the first one who wanna give stealth to skalds and bards (but in that case Mythic has to change bard's instant ae mezz to one with casting time of 5 sec, like minstrels). And if we are in a giving mood, give cabalists and runemasters pbaoe etc. Today's daoc community is sadly not about balance, it's about 'nerf him, gimme love'

 

[- Pathfinder -]

Heh, smite was overpowered before the combined nerf, introduction of RAs and resist buffs. Now it just blows. Healers were Gods in 1.36; they're just overpowered now. Druids are a good solid class, Nature actually being useful ^^ Smite could do with some changes to make it more useful (the AE replaced with a root or something etc).

 

[old.Morchaoron]

Originally posted by Thorgald
skalds can use 2 handed weapons and have a damage add, but that isnt a good enuff excuse to compare with as a skald rarly specc very high in their weapon, and if they by any chance DO specc 50 weapon then they got extreamly crappy DD's.

ermm minstrels have exactly the same shouts as a skald and some have only 44 instruments aswell, so weak excuse, skalds can do that too its their choice how they spec...

 

[Melachi-]

Originally posted by old.Morchaoron
ermm minstrels have exactly the same shouts as a skald and some have only 44 instruments aswell, so weak excuse, skalds can do that too its their choice how they spec...

as of next patch they have same shouts, as it is, im pretty sure mincers is more damaging, and nearly positive they are on a lower timer.

 

[Damon_D]

Originally posted by old.Morchaoron
rrrrrrrrrrrright........

the difference is the minstrel isnt a single-minded chesspiece, like the wizard, the savage, the cleric... good classes, but only good at 1 thing... (damage, damage, healing)

the minstrel, however, can do many things, but at lesser efficiency then each other class with the same 'specialty' that can do it ...


and NO, this does NOT make them overpowered, if i would play mid or hib i wouldnt give a shit about minstrels other then that i know i can meet them both solo and in groups, but in both cases they are far from overpowered or unbeatable...

being able to do a lot of different things isnt overpowered, it doest have a real impact on rvr, its a silly philosophy imo...

solo minstrels aint the problem..but grouped with infil's they suddenly are a big problem , because non of the other realms has accesses to a stealther class with cc and so many tricks up the sleeve . What would you say to dual wielding skalds with stealth , climb wall , some chants of use , mezz changed to aoe and snare to stun ??? Because thats basicly what minstrels are... now group em with some SB's ( some pre nef one's ..so they can actualy do some dmg ) and see how you like it... Ofcourse the skald would still have a sub par special RA..but we mid's are kinda used to that....

 

[old.Morchaoron]

Originally posted by Melachi-
as of next patch they have same shouts, as it is, im pretty sure mincers is more damaging, and nearly positive they are on a lower timer.

fgs READ THE PATCH NOTES


here for you, both minstrel and skald get these new shouts in 1.65

Skald
Added a new shout in the Warcry and Battle Shout lines. War Howl is a new level 43 shout and Battle Roar is a new level 50 shout

Minstrel
Added a new shout in the Dischordant Note and Lesser Cacophany lines. Discordant Howl is a new level 43 shout and Deafening Cacophany is a new level 50 shout.


right now both have the same shouts, and they both get 2 better ones, skald one is currently at 20s but the skald does not deal less damage

 

[hangianix]

Originally posted by - Pathfinder -
Heh, smite was overpowered before the combined nerf, introduction of RAs and resist buffs. Now it just blows. Healers were Gods in 1.36; they're just overpowered now. Druids are a good solid class, Nature actually being useful ^^ Smite could do with some changes to make it more useful (the AE replaced with a root or something etc).

Givf 1500 range on stun, smite, lower mana cost, demezz and yes, root sounds nice to have a usefull spell as well

 

[Melachi-]

Originally posted by old.Morchaoron
fgs READ THE PATCH NOTES


here for you, both minstrel and skald get these new shouts in 1.65

Skald
Added a new shout in the Warcry and Battle Shout lines. War Howl is a new level 43 shout and Battle Roar is a new level 50 shout

Minstrel
Added a new shout in the Dischordant Note and Lesser Cacophany lines. Discordant Howl is a new level 43 shout and Deafening Cacophany is a new level 50 shout.


right now both have the same shouts, and they both get 2 better ones, skald one is currently at 20s but the skald does not deal less damage

FGS lol, calm down there tbh, I do read patch notes, thats how I knew they were getting equal dd's in next patch , was wrong about damage but not about timers, see ?

 

[old.Morchaoron]

Originally posted by Melachi-
FGS lol, calm down there tbh, I do read patch notes, thats how I knew they were getting equal dd's in next patch , was wrong about damage but not about timers, see ?

annoying when people say classes are overpowered without knowing the facts :sleeping:

 

[Derric]

Originally posted by old.Morchaoron
annoying when people say classes are overpowered without knowing the facts :sleeping:

You missed Meaniesavage's rant on IRC when he claimed we outmelee blademasters,got evade 3 and have 1500 range on stun.

 

[old.Morchaoron]

Originally posted by Derric
You missed Meaniesavage's rant on IRC when he claimed we outmelee blademasters,got evade 3 and have 1500 range on stun.

guess the name says it all

 

[Melachi-]

Originally posted by old.Morchaoron
annoying when people say classes are overpowered without knowing the facts :sleeping:

What are you talking about? What facts don't I know? I consider the minstrel pretty standard in fg-v-fg, no idea about PvE, in Keep takes a tad annoying, and in stealther wafare overpowered. Ive given the reasons earlier.

 

[Damon_D]

Originally posted by old.Morchaoron
fgs READ THE PATCH NOTES


here for you, both minstrel and skald get these new shouts in 1.65

Skald
Added a new shout in the Warcry and Battle Shout lines. War Howl is a new level 43 shout and Battle Roar is a new level 50 shout

Minstrel
Added a new shout in the Dischordant Note and Lesser Cacophany lines. Discordant Howl is a new level 43 shout and Deafening Cacophany is a new level 50 shout.


right now both have the same shouts, and they both get 2 better ones, skald one is currently at 20s but the skald does not deal less damage

LOL who gives a feek about those two dd's , they suck on both classes..its just that the mintrel has alot of other decent utillities.. the skald has nothing... but didnt I post that above allready ???

 

[old.Morchaoron]

Originally posted by Damon_D
LOL who gives a feek about those two dd's , they suck on both classes..its just that the mintrel has alot of other decent utillities.. the skald has nothing... but didnt I post that above allready ???

the skald is a bit more specialized in group combat, he is one damage table higher then the minstrel, he uses the reaver paladin champion damage table AND can use 2 handed weapons, while the minstrel uses the warden thane (omg poor thane) shadowblade damage table

if it was up to me i would like to trade my stealth with the next higher damage table and 2 handed weapons, would make me much more useful in groups (the minstrel could be compared with the friar then in base damage; both would have a 2 handed weapons then and use the same damage table) 44 instruments 50 slash 4 teh win

however THEN the minstrel would be overpowered, it would be a copy of the skald with better abilities, and the same damage, right now the stealth is useless in normal fights (so is his charm, his mezzing abilities may come in handy but its very unlikely it will do any good cuz of its poor area, duration, casting time and range, although AE mez is good for pbae box interruption)

and yes i said before, the minstrel is very powerful in stealth ZERGS since infils will jump in front of him to prevent him getting pa'd, but about 80% of the stealthers will be gone soon cuz of the ToA uber anti-stealther 'masterlevels abilities' or whatever its called

bards are not even allowed to whine, they have a superb survivability rating with their heals, end regen and (insta) mez, and add much to their group (why else would they be the prime target), however they are not too good at soloing like redb has demonstrated (and they shouldnt, its a 100% support class)

 

[Melachi-]

Originally posted by old.Morchaoron
the minstrel is very powerful in stealth ZERGS

Overpowered or just powerfull ? :|

 

[old.Morchaoron]

Originally posted by Melachi-
Overpowered or just powerfull ? :|

just as powerfull as any other class with zerg affecting abilities (like pbae) in this game...