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old.tuppe
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- #31
agree, minst is one best 1v1 class in game after have desent ra:s.
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Arakasi01
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- #32
bah minstrels suck... for $5
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GrivneKelmorian
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- #33
right...so you guys just removed your right to whine on savages right?...
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old.Morchaoron
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- #34
if everything goes our way we can take a keep, we have to play it 'just right'
replace all tanks in the group with minstrels and you'll see how ermmm 'overpowred' our class is (we'll hit for jackshit)
once again you fail to see the overall impact both classes have on the game, just think about it again and come back then when you understand....
it also was a fight vs a NPC, a mob, mids killed the dragon with only 1fg, all the participating classes need to be nerfed aswell now?
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XeffoInfil
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- #35
nice job, thats impressive if it was only 2 of u for real
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Melachi-
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- #36
Not getting into this, but ill say it only like this. Healers are overpowered, but by what your saying, since they hit for so little, they actually arent? Abilities counts as much as damage dealing towards 'overpoweredness'.
And regarding the dragon thing, afaik not positive, Dragons strenght is based on how many are in the lair. Allthough it would require more concentration to kill her with 1fg, afaik its the same as 3fg on ratio.
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old.windforce
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- #37
melachi rambling again
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VodkaFairy
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- #38
Well can you explain me why a minstrel is overpowered and how you would like to see them nerfed.
Mincers are good 1 on 1, but only with decent ra's. And for the basics they need rr8l2- purge, sos, ip, ap3. And at that RR, you can expect people to be good, duh. I can beat most mincers easy with my 21 blunt specced bard, and don't you fucking dare saying bards are overpowered
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old.Morchaoron
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- #39
comparing a minstrel with a healer??? Oo
its the same as a paladin, 2 of them can duo a keeplord, but put 2 of em in a rvr group and its a joke (in terms of 'optimal groups' speaking), same with minstrels...
the tactics you use on a keep lord WONT work on in rvr trust me...
killing a lord is *IS* FIGHTING A MOB, you realise that dont you?
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Melachi-
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- #40
Originally posted by VodkaFairy
Well can you explain me why a minstrel is overpowered and how you would like to see them nerfed.
Mincers are good 1 on 1, but only with decent ra's. And for the basics they need rr8l2- purge, sos, ip, ap3. And at that RR, you can expect people to be good, duh. I can beat most mincers easy with my 21 blunt specced bard, and don't you fucking dare saying bards are overpowered
Minstrel is a little overpowered because of all its abilities combined, climb walls, stealth, chain armour, insta stun, mezz-from-stealth, ablative, speed 5 ect... SoS is also very nice but lets leave that out for the moment. I know your going to explode and go, WHAT!?! SPEED 5 overpowered?! No its not, but it is overpowered on a char that can also stealth with chain armour and climb walls ect.... Its all these things that make it overpowered, they alone are not overpowered.
Your blunt specced bard could probably kill my pac healer, does that mean im NOT overpowered? poor reasoning.
Comparing a minstre with a healer, simply because they are overpowered because of all their abilities combined, unlike beserkers (pre 1.62) who were considered overpowered for their raw damage alone.
I never said anything about two minstrels killing a lord meaning they were overpowered, I only said to VodkaFairy not to judge a class simply on its damage potential. Infact you will notice my first post was congradulating you.
Please, read my posts instead of just assuming you know what i said.
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old.Morchaoron
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- #41
if you know everything so well, what do you suggest to 'fix' it then?
when i say something is overpowered i can always tell what needs to be ajusted...
if you remove anything other then stealth you would make a complete gimp out of it (basically in groups they are a non-healing ghetto mezzing single insta stunning version of the bard)
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Melachi-
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- #42
No i dont know everything so well, and no I dont have a suggestion to fix it.
Well in this case, its not easy to tell what needs to be adjusted imo because of the reasons you stated. But that doesnt make them not overpowered, get it?
I think you seem to be in denial that your char is overpowered and thats because of this menatlitly floating around atm that nobody should be able to play a class thats overpowered and that its shamefull. I picked Healer, not knowing it would be overpowered, infact I didnt even know what mezz was at the time. But I know its overpowered now, and Im able to admit that, and I dont care about people calling me fotm or overpowered.
Your class is overpowered. Thats not your fault, enjoy it, but don't deny it. (rhymes oO)
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old.Morchaoron
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- #43
first of all, i dont find healers overpowered, i dislike every 'insta ae' thing in this game but thats not healer specific however... healers have both cc and healing, 2 very good specs in one class, while clerics have 1 usless spec (smite), they shouldnt nerf healers but they should make smite more usable (perhaps something else then dds?)
actually i fail to see why my class is overpowered, he shouldnt have stealth maybe, however once its taken away he no longer belongs to the 'stealther' class, therefor is not a 'overpowered' stealther anymore, he'll just be considered a normal char when going solo, and about everything will eat him up then (at least every real tank, and even stealthers if they get the jump on him, but he will still be able to kill most casters except bds)
i dont think im in denial, i think you simply dont know the limits of this class, there are some specific things the minstrel is very good at, and at other things we are useless, HOWEVER we avoid such situations with stealth, or we just run away (like the hunters and rangers do, or skalds with their insta mez)
the infil i played was overpowered, shitloads of damage and super styles, however i cant spam df 4 teh win with this class
FGS just SAY what is overpowered about it, give a bloody reason, and not things like 'they have too much utility' because that is not what makes them overpowered, play one in a group and you'll see that all of a sudden your a gimp tank with shouts barely good enough to interrupt, and if you solo you can kill sbs with your pet, woohoo.... well until you meet a group cuz you cant stealth with pets and then your dead...
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Zerg-Proof
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- #44
OMG, can barely find the words to describe my admiration...so imho you're 2cool! Can I have an autograph plz?
:hat:
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Petronella
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- #45
hi benowyc
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kneckehexan
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- #46
you totaly rock etc...
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Melachi-
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- #47
I allready said why they are overpowered.....
For example, imagine this....
Imagine a new char, that has chain armour, nukes, pbae, speed 5, stealth.
You see, nothing on this char is actually overpowered imo, pbae, nukes, they are fine. But this char IS overpowered. All those things combined does = overpowered.
This is why I also think a pac healer is overpowered.
Ae mezz, ae stun, chain armour, 1900+hits (buffed + sc with no aug con ra's!), isnta ae stun, insta ae mezz, long duration single mezz and stun, root, ae amnesia, spread heals, insta heals, insta group heals.
None of these things are overpowered imo (some may disagree about the insta ae mezz, how and however) this does not mean the class is not overpowered, it is! Its overpowered because it has all these things.
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old.Morchaoron
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- #48
guess its no use talking to you :sleeping:
you say its overpowered, yet you dont know how it should be fixed, thats always easy isnt it?
i dont mind people calling things overpowered, but if they cannot even suggest what should be fixed i really cant take them serious...
i guess this is just a 'omg overpowered' whine then...
Does not sound overpowered at all, he is a core class every group needs, with the difference that, despite other classes, every ability is useful in rvr, its equal is the druid and cleric, however especially the cleric lacks a 2nd useful specline....
in this case, do not nerf the speclines that are working, but boost those that are NOT
you say its overpowered, yet you dont know how it should be fixed, thats always easy isnt it?
i dont mind people calling things overpowered, but if they cannot even suggest what should be fixed i really cant take them serious...
i guess this is just a 'omg overpowered' whine then...
Does not sound overpowered at all, he is a core class every group needs, with the difference that, despite other classes, every ability is useful in rvr, its equal is the druid and cleric, however especially the cleric lacks a 2nd useful specline....
in this case, do not nerf the speclines that are working, but boost those that are NOT
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XeffoInfil
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- #49
such stlong argument, you know it wont lead to anything getting changed right, kthx bye
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dracus
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- #50
Imo stealth and climb walls (same spec line ino) are misplaced on mincer... Altho i dont know the impact on the class if this was removed (kinda hard to 
)
The idea of a CC class who can accompany infils and scouts with stealth is just ridiculous...assasins in general are overpowered as it is and adding a class like mincer to that equation just makes it even more visible and detestable(sp?)
But hey, i play hib and mid so whaddo ino
/Dracus
)The idea of a CC class who can accompany infils and scouts with stealth is just ridiculous...assasins in general are overpowered as it is and adding a class like mincer to that equation just makes it even more visible and detestable(sp?)
But hey, i play hib and mid so whaddo ino
/Dracus
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old.Morchaoron
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- #51
Originally posted by dracus
Imo stealth and climb walls (same spec line ino) are misplaced on mincer... Altho i dont know the impact on the class if this was removed (kinda hard to
/Dracus
no more climbing keeps
no more running with stealth zergs, no more hiding when a fg appears, they will disappear out of the frontiers solo unless they walk with a pet (but even now like all solo non-stealthers they are dead when they meet a small+ group)
those who still want to stealth will probably make a infil, or less likely a scout, or just give up playing a stealther, because for most 'stealth' minstrels there is no reason to go solo without stealth, it will result in a major loss of minstrel activity on all servers, only the 'group' minstrels wont notice this (some like me will cuz i will put all my stealth points from climb wall in melee then)
like i said before, we will be a gimp bard with a instant stun and only 2 specs: your weapon specline (either thrust or slash), and the song/ghetto line
our base melee damage has already been toned down once btw...
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Melachi-
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- #52
The reason I cannot come up with an idea to fix them is because none of their attributes are overpowered. Just that when their attributes are combined they are overpowered.
Unlike the savage for example, his damage is simply overpowered, therefore a fix would be to tone it down.
Nobody wants to destroy the minstrel class, but it is overpowered. But no area of the mincer stands out as more overpowering than the other, so its hard to determine what needs fixing.
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old.Morchaoron
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- #53
rrrrrrrrrrrright........
the difference is the minstrel isnt a single-minded chesspiece, like the wizard, the savage, the cleric... good classes, but only good at 1 thing... (damage, damage, healing)
the minstrel, however, can do many things, but at lesser efficiency then each other class with the same 'specialty' that can do it ...
and NO, this does NOT make them overpowered, if i would play mid or hib i wouldnt give a shit about minstrels other then that i know i can meet them both solo and in groups, but in both cases they are far from overpowered or unbeatable...
being able to do a lot of different things isnt overpowered, it doest have a real impact on rvr, its a silly philosophy imo...
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promise
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- #54
Originally posted by old.Morchaoron
like i said before, we will be a gimp bard with a instant stun and only 2 specs: your weapon specline (either thrust or slash), and the song/ghetto line
so youll be a skald then......not only that, a skald with pets....
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old.Morchaoron
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- #55
using pets in groups is a very bad idea...
and i wish i could use 2handed weapons like the skald cuz the shield without spec is useless...
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Melachi-
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- #56
No your wrong, I never said having lots of abilities makes someone overpowered, but in the mincers case it does!
No class should have stealth, climbwalls and chain armour.
Or no class should have stealth and speed 5.
Or no class should have stealth and insta stun.
Or no class should have stealth and mezz.
Aswell as having, ae mezz (shit I know but still), ablative chant, charm (red con charm ability) ect...
And about mincers being able to do what others do at a lesser efficienty than others...
They hit harder than healer types
They move as fast as a skald/bard
They can stealth but have far better armour than other stealthers
Only class in the game to be able to charm higher than his own level pets iirc (if not still class with red con charm ability)
Only class with Ablative chant
Can climb walls like assasins, but does it in chain armour..
Theres a million things it does the same or better than others, and theres also a million things it does worse than others.
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old.Morchaoron
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- #57
ah at least thats much clearer then the other posts, the stealth part is overpowered vs other stealthers i assume? cuz mezzing, stunning or speeding mach5 vs others from stealth vs non-stealthers will do jackshit, and you might as well just mach5 + sprint to them then mez or stun or whatever you want...
well you could AE mez stealther vs stealther zergs, he would be excellent vs that but wow... we see that often dont we
so i see its one of its biggest 'flaws' right?
we cant use ablative when we have a pet, we cant use stealth while we have a pet, redcon pets are very dangerous, and i only use them for fun in a keeptake with loads of people, we have a unreliable charm and the higher level the mob, the more often he resists and attacks the minstrel (and the more powerful the mob is the more damage the minstrel will get), ive tried soloing with a redcon pet but it is a pain in the arse, and you are better off with a good orange con (if you can find one)...
They hit harder than healer types
yes luckily, would have been complete gimped if we had healer damage but no healing, and they DONT hit harder then a assassin (hunters hit harder aswell, but never really fought much rangers)
They move as fast as a skald/bard
as a skald, bards can twist end thus move faster, you can catch minstrels that run off with speed but you cant catch bards...
They can stealth but have far better armour than other stealthers
limited, strong vs crush, neutral vs slash, weak vs thrust
hib stealthers use mostly thrust
mids use only slash
neither can use crush
ask a shade what the difference is between hitting a minstrel, archer or assassin
also minstrels have access to Avoid Pain (i assume you know whta this is), this is what most soloing minstrels have (usually 2 or some higher RR's got 3), this is very important to them to win fights (i dont have it myself since i didnt make it for soloing)
Only class in the game to be able to charm higher than his own level pets iirc (if not still class with red con charm ability)
like ive said before, it is extremly dangerous to charm anything higher then orangecon and you wont be able to use stealth or ablative anymore, and twisting with speed results in end loss...
mentalists can charm higher then yellow aswell, ive seen them with orange pets, i dunno if they can take higher then that cuz i never really had a closer look at that ability BUT, they can charm EVERY type of mob if they spec it high enough (i can only do insects, animals, magical and humanoid, so no caithe sidhe or cyraeth for me)
just because he CAN control a red con doesnt mean it will actually be useful...
Only class with Ablative chant
maybe good in stealther zergs since every point of damage counts, however in normal groups when you or one of your groupmembers get a assist train on you you see how useless absorb is... 70 damage every 6 seconds.. how much damage can a REAL tank deal in 6 seconds? (not to mention a savage) loads right? multiply that by at least 3 (thats how it works in rvr, /assist)
ablative was given to the minstrel to give him a chant that is useful in combat, bards could play endsong and heal/mez, skalds could fight and play damage increase chant, minstrels could just fight OR ghetto mez...
but hey its great when soloing yellow con mobs -.-
i had a level 77 pet once!! uber and overpowered isnt it?
well i had to do more then over 100 pulses to control it, and when i finally had it i lost the control again after 6 seconds and it 2 shotted me... but hey, that are just details... -.-
you should play one then you will see its abilities are overrated...
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Melachi-
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- #58
Red con pets are very dangerous and random I know, cant stealth while having a pet I know, hit harder than healer types, has the best armour out of all stealther types, cant play ablative, was only saying these things because you were saying everything a minstrel did was sub par compared to all other people when its not true.
I know minstrel has alot of bugs/problems/flaws but most classes do?
I didnt mention AP or any other RA's because alot of people prefare to balance classes without taking RA's into consideration and they have a point. Also your class has SoS one of the most whined about ra's, if i mentioned it the flood gates would open and this would turn into SoS whinethread #16591123.
Your class is overpowered, not in all situations true but thats the same as alot of 'overpowered' chars. Take the savage, amazing class in fg-v-fg fights, as dull and uneffective in keep defense/taking as any other tank, and poor in PvE due to his buffs costing hp.
SoS aside, I agree with you, your class in fg-v-fg fighting is nothign special at all.
Ill go ahead and say it, my personal opinion is the Minstrel class is overpowered in stealth warfare(due to stun/mezz/speed/aemezz/ect..), and also damn nice in keep takes (due to climb walls and mezz/aemezz ect...).
I know minstrel has alot of bugs/problems/flaws but most classes do?
I didnt mention AP or any other RA's because alot of people prefare to balance classes without taking RA's into consideration and they have a point. Also your class has SoS one of the most whined about ra's, if i mentioned it the flood gates would open and this would turn into SoS whinethread #16591123.
Your class is overpowered, not in all situations true but thats the same as alot of 'overpowered' chars. Take the savage, amazing class in fg-v-fg fights, as dull and uneffective in keep defense/taking as any other tank, and poor in PvE due to his buffs costing hp.
SoS aside, I agree with you, your class in fg-v-fg fighting is nothign special at all.
Ill go ahead and say it, my personal opinion is the Minstrel class is overpowered in stealth warfare(due to stun/mezz/speed/aemezz/ect..), and also damn nice in keep takes (due to climb walls and mezz/aemezz ect...).
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carp-
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- #59
sos,ip,chain,ap,stealth,climb walls,red con pet,speed 5 - sounds great on paper huh ? How many minstrels do u see running around the frontier with red con pets? If it was that easy everyone would do it.
Also our stealth isnt normal stealth, we dont have protection against see hidden unlike archers :/ ppl seem to miss things like this when they list all our abilities.
/overpoweredandlovinit
Also our stealth isnt normal stealth, we dont have protection against see hidden unlike archers :/ ppl seem to miss things like this when they list all our abilities.
/overpoweredandlovinit
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old.Morchaoron
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- #60
like i said, perhaps they have a advantage in stealth vs stealth zergs, because other infils will jump in front of them since they cant detect or stealthers themselves...
however, you see that? overpowered in a STEALTH VS STEALTH ZERG, wow that happens often doesnt it? on pryd its stealth zerg vs stealther, the more stealthers the more powerful the minstrel becomes (due to its cc) and the easier it gets vs large numbers, kinda like with pbae in regular zergs and thats not considered 'overpowered' either is it?
if the assassins fucks his pa up in 1vs1 stealther fights the minstrel is most likely to win (although rangers still have a fair chance to win then, sbs are somewhat gimped, but thats the way it works in every stealth fight), if the assassin gets his pa and cd, you can try to stun then mez and run away, however the mez gets resisted alot (running with only stun on the sb is useless, since speed wont work when bleeding/dotted and during that time if your diseased/snared he will get you anyway) before you are technically 'out of combat' to play mach5
also we didnt use mez/ae mez in that keeptake, we tanked the guards with our orange pets, and i understand it may come to you as a suprise but: that trick doesnt work on mids, silly isnt it? -.-
and still you have no idea how we exactly did it, i bet you wont be able to do it unless i told you...