That whole TT thing

[Septina]

People left cause they were sick of people playing like assholes and only caring for themselves.

LONG LIVE THE SOTG!!!111111111

And btw, havent you quit!?!?!?!? YOU CANT POST ON THESE BOARDS!!11

 

[Kinag]

you will probably not believe me when i say i never made any conversation with any GOA employee about this incident. i didn`t mail, pm, rightnow anyting.

when we noticed that renaris had been set to level 1, i talked with TT members who ridiculed me, i talked with my guild who screamed bloody outrage, i talked with the /as who screamed bloody outrage and sugested i screenshotted the conversation that i had and bring it to FH, i brought the subject to FH.

Well, if your guild is like you and Sollac... Kind of speaks for it self, doesn't it?

oh, and what i don`t get is why all the people who were that unhappy over the GOA rulling (GOA > MYTHIC imho) moved to another server owned by GOA and not to the US ?

playing on a server with more people was the main true motivation for many i would think.

People left cause they were sick of people playing like assholes and only caring for themselves.

 

[Icebreaker]

oh, and what i don`t get is why all the people who were that unhappy over the GOA rulling (GOA > MYTHIC imho) moved to another server owned by GOA and not to the US ?

playing on a server with more people was the main true motivation for many i would think.

Well they moved to another Server to play without pimps like CM, you ( ), and all the rest.It's a far better atmosphere without you all!

 

[joap]

TT thought they were god and had the right to direct the server towards an end that suited their purpose, contrary what the majority of their own realm thought.

GOA told them they were wrong.

they proved themselves unable to accept GOA`s decision.

This point is irrelevant, and even if it had any relevance, you fail time and time to prove it.

In all your rambling, i don't see any proof that the majority of albion was against it.

In fact, as other have pointed out, there was a poll in FH about this, where all realm (albion included) aproved of what TT did. You may argue that FH is not necessarily a representative sample of the whole cluster, and i'll grant you that. But that poll is way more credible than you when all you have to show is your own impression on the subject.

 

[Lethul]

This point is irrelevant, and even if it had any relevance, you fail time and time to prove it.

In all your rambling, i don't see any proof that the majority of albion was against it.

In fact, as other have pointed out, there was a poll in FH about this, where all realm (albion included) aproved of what TT did. You may argue that FH is not necessarily a representative sample of the whole cluster, and i'll grant you that. But that poll is way more credible than you when all you have to show is your own impression on the subject.

the majority of the albs still on the server might be against it!

 

[Andrilyn]

This point is irrelevant, and even if it had any relevance, you fail time and time to prove it.

In all your rambling, i don't see any proof that the majority of albion was against it.

And I don't see proof that the majority of albion was not against it.

In fact, as other have pointed out, there was a poll in FH about this, where all realm (albion included) aproved of what TT did. You may argue that FH is not necessarily a representative sample of the whole cluster, and i'll grant you that. But that poll is way more credible than you when all you have to show is your own impression on the subject.

Polls on FH are all but credible, how many people vote that don't even play the game anymore? people that follow the person screaming loudest on IRC/FH.
I find it funny that so many people actually believe that poll meant something but then again I was always thought that there are 3 kind of lies.

If people think all people left because of the Relic raids then they are ignorant really, the real problem was the global population of the cluster and that was a problem long before all that relic drama happend and most seem to be using this relic situation as a scapegoat for the population problem and made a big problem from such a small issue.

 

[charmangle]

If people think all people left because of the Relic raids then they are ignorant really, the real problem was the global population of the cluster and that was a problem long before all that relic drama happend and most seem to be using this relic situation as a scapegoat for the population problem and made a big problem from such a small issue.

Sigh, you still fail to see the point. Yes eventually the server would have died, as Daoc will die in the end. BUT, and this is a big buTT, due to this thing the process was sped up by a factor of 100.

What I find strange is that you and muy, and the few others actually condoning these events, cant see that the server population dropped extremly much as a direct consequence to this...that is ignorant.

No one wants to pay money to a company, for them to be able to bully people around without any foundation in the rules they themselves write...

And no one wants to spend valuable free time doing something they find boring. Which is retaking keeps every, day of every year of every decade, for the rest of their lives while morons go take everything during the night vs mobs.

In the end its not the AC raid idea itself, its the continuity of it...to face an enemy that are so cowerdice that they wount attack anything at any time, while there are defenders, and only want to stand in a keep with superior numbers, extra damage and farm the opponents, is extremly boring and not worth paying for. Thats why an absolut majority of the people left the server.

/Charmangle

ps: I have over 30 lvl 50s fully toad on the english cluster, 50+ plats, decent amount of rr5+ chars, and had no plan what so ever to leave before these events. But to me it just seemed like I wanted to somehow get rid of these people, and the only way to do it was to start over all anew on another server. It just seemd like less of an annoyance to redo it all than have to deal with these people...ds

 

[swords]

Just let it die now ok?

 

[joap]

And I don't see proof that the majority of albion was not against it.

You're just being pedantic here.
Surely you noticed that i made no claim one way or the other.
Muyl on the other hand did.
I only asked him what was his evidence.

Polls on FH are all but credible, how many people vote that don't even play the game anymore? people that follow the person screaming loudest on IRC/FH.
I find it funny that so many people actually believe that poll meant something but then again I was always thought that there are 3 kind of lies.

I'm sorry but for me the poll means more that a simple statement with nothing more behind it.

If people think all people left because of the Relic raids then they are ignorant really, the real problem was the global population of the cluster and that was a problem long before all that relic drama happend and most seem to be using this relic situation as a scapegoat for the population problem and made a big problem from such a small issue.

I agree with you that people didnt leave due to ACing albs. It was GoA's response that trigered the most outrage from the player base. Notice that the hibs protest of droping claims all over the frontier came on the wake of GoA's action, not the AC raid.

 

[Septina]

Just let it die now ok?

Never.

 

[Everz]

Just let it die now ok?

no we want drama.. alalalalla

 

[thergador]

Not been around for a fair bit, can somone please sum up who/what the whole TT thing was to save me sifting through all the flames and insults, ta

blatant attempt get Albs fighting each other again imo
sorry but a quick sreach on FH or ask a m8 in game would have filled you in

next time let die dog lie, dont dig up the past,
also do not try seeking attention at cost to others

 

[Sharkith]

oh, and what i don`t get is why all the people who were that unhappy over the GOA rulling (GOA > MYTHIC imho) moved to another server owned by GOA and not to the US ?

Try using your loaf for once. They didn't leave GOA because they simply felt the issue was not over yet. I have a feeling it is coming to a close though now. Especially since Requiel has started reposting on it.

Some of us might still be deciding when to quit. It makes sense to give a company a chance rather than act on a whim.

 

[liloe]

Just let it die now ok?

Listen to the voice of reason please =)

 

[Andrilyn]

Sigh, you still fail to see the point. Yes eventually the server would have died, as Daoc will die in the end. BUT, and this is a big buTT, due to this thing the process was sped up by a factor of 100.

Once again, speculations.

What I find strange is that you and muy, and the few others actually condoning these events, cant see that the server population dropped extremly much as a direct consequence to this...that is ignorant.

Nice of you to put me in a 'box' like that, also the pop dropped I don't disagree with that but peoples intentions about why they left is more like acting like muslim women who blindlessly follow their husband.

No one wants to pay money to a company, for them to be able to bully people around without any foundation in the rules they themselves write...

I think GOA explained why they did what they did in the other thread(s) which is according to their own rules.[/quote]

And no one wants to spend valuable free time doing something they find boring. Which is retaking keeps every, day of every year of every decade, for the rest of their lives while morons go take everything during the night vs mobs.

Sorry I forgot about the people who force you to retake the keeps against your own will, you know you can just leave the keeps if you want right?

In the end its not the AC raid idea itself, its the continuity of it...to face an enemy that are so cowerdice that they wount attack anything at any time, while there are defenders, and only want to stand in a keep with superior numbers, extra damage and farm the opponents, is extremly boring and not worth paying for. Thats why an absolut majority of the people left the server.

Well if you and the supposably other people you speak of don't think it's worth paying for something you don't like then don't I see no problem as if I would start to dislike the game for any aspect of it I would quit aswell but that still doesn't make your point valid.

I'm sorry but for me the poll means more that a simple statement with nothing more behind it.

Unless you can prove the poll is not 'corrupt' you can not accept it as a valid argument

But I agree with Swords and just let it die before a certain group of people start with the cynical and sarcastic insults towards a certain group of people again.

 

[Soulja_IA_]

oh, and what i don`t get is why all the people who were that unhappy over the GOA rulling (GOA > MYTHIC imho) moved to another server owned by GOA and not to the US ?

playing on a server with more people was the main true motivation for many i would think.

Think you find that they moved to get away from Wankers like you self and you playmate Horner and friends.

Surprised you never worked that out Muyl plenty discussion on here why people left this server.

Soulja

 

[charmangle]

Once again, speculations.

Sigh, I have nevered claimed it to be anything else than speculations or observations. But at some point even "stick your head in the sand and hope for the best" attitudes like yours, for their own good have to realize that the world around them actually is affected by their own actions.

Nice of you to put me in a 'box' like that,

Yea I know, you belong there and you diserve it if someone does.

also the pop dropped I don't disagree with that but peoples intentions about why they left

Hmm...you seem to be one of those people arguing that the world is flat, because you yourself have never seen it beeing round. Do you still think the world is flat?

You go by the proof you have until it has been proven wrong. And so far, a huge majority of all the comments say they leave directly because of this action/and the AC raids. Once again look at comment one in this response.

is more like acting like muslim women who blindlessly follow their husband.

Now this shows just how incredibly shortsighted you are. You actually have no idea what a muslim whoman does, or how she interacts with her husband in general. You assume you know, based on your own prejudice, but in fact you are just showing yourself to be a uneducated hick sitting in the woods somewhere by your lonesome.

If you want to argue poverty struck areas or religious fanatism, then they are equally bad. You seem to be one of those assuming that all african/middle eastern countries are Muslims, well they arent, and the catolic/orthodox countries in these areas have equivivalent stations for women within the confines of marriage. Which should lead you to understand that the extreme bias you are using to form your opinions around probably is more regional/traditional than specific for a certain religion.

But again that comment alone shows how you think, and that thought process is the core of the problem with the english cluster atm. And in the end it will be the reason the demise of the server will come faster than it ought to. So basically you and your likes are to blame for ruining the fun for us all, and in all honesty and buisiness sense, GoA should have banned you and not TT, since they would most likley have lost alot less revinew that way.

I think GOA explained why they did what they did in the other thread(s) which is according to their own rules.

Sorry I should have stated: Stated rule!
Show me the exact quote where it says anywhere in a written rule text that we have gotten from GoA or Mythic: "No player or guild are allowed to lower the level of any keep with a relic in it."

You still dont get it, you are so narrowminded and stuck on "as long as I get as I want, I dont care if the world goes to hell". The reason we have explicitly stated rules in society, and the rights of those rules are so hard regulated by our constitutions, is because frame laws can and will be exploited by people in power. If you take away that freedom in exchange for safty (howdi Bush and company), you make it easier for even greater threats to our safty (like Hitler for example).

So referring to a rule that only states "spirit of the game", that can be applied in every situation, and every single action in the game and enterpreted to the wims of the reader, is equivalent to saying: The rules arent worth anything and we do as we want. And this was made even worse, when the only president to this, actually was deemed ok.

Sorry I forgot about the people who force you to retake the keeps against your own will, you know you can just leave the keeps if you want right?

LoL, Im sorry but this argument is so childish, and juvenile that it makes me wonder what age group you belong too.

You very well know that having your entire frontier taken means you cant port, that means you cant play RvR with way to long travel times, and thats kind of the point of the endgame.

So brining this up as you do, just makes you look stupid.

In the end, I really hope for your own sake, that you start using your anlytical side instead of just basing your opinions on bias and what is good for you. What is good for all is best for you too in the long run i promise...

/Charmangle

 

[Arumos]

Sigh, I have nevered claimed it to be anything else than speculations or observations. But at some point even "stick your head in the sand and hope for the best" attitudes like yours, for their own good have to realize that the world around them actually is affected by their own actions.


Yea I know, you belong there and you diserve it if someone does.


Hmm...you seem to be one of those people arguing that the world is flat, because you yourself have never seen it beeing round. Do you still think the world is flat?

You go by the proof you have until it has been proven wrong. And so far, a huge majority of all the comments say they leave directly because of this action/and the AC raids. Once again look at comment one in this response.


Now this shows just how incredibly shortsighted you are. You actually have no idea what a muslim whoman does, or how she interacts with her husband in general. You assume you know, based on your own prejudice, but in fact you are just showing yourself to be a uneducated hick sitting in the woods somewhere by your lonesome.

If you want to argue poverty struck areas or religious fanatism, then they are equally bad. You seem to be one of those assuming that all african/middle eastern countries are Muslims, well they arent, and the catolic/orthodox countries in these areas have equivivalent stations for women within the confines of marriage. Which should lead you to understand that the extreme bias you are using to form your opinions around probably is more regional/traditional than specific for a certain religion.

But again that comment alone shows how you think, and that thought process is the core of the problem with the english cluster atm. And in the end it will be the reason the demise of the server will come faster than it ought to. So basically you and your likes are to blame for ruining the fun for us all, and in all honesty and buisiness sense, GoA should have banned you and not TT, since they would most likley have lost alot less revinew that way.


Sorry I should have stated: Stated rule!
Show me the exact quote where it says anywhere in a written rule text that we have gotten from GoA or Mythic: "No player or guild are allowed to lower the level of any keep with a relic in it."

You still dont get it, you are so narrowminded and stuck on "as long as I get as I want, I dont care if the world goes to hell". The reason we have explicitly stated rules in society, and the rights of those rules are so hard regulated by our constitutions, is because frame laws can and will be exploited by people in power. If you take away that freedom in exchange for safty (howdi Bush and company), you make it easier for even greater threats to our safty (like Hitler for example).

So referring to a rule that only states "spirit of the game", that can be applied in every situation, and every single action in the game and enterpreted to the wims of the reader, is equivalent to saying: The rules arent worth anything and we do as we want. And this was made even worse, when the only president to this, actually was deemed ok.


LoL, Im sorry but this argument is so childish, and juvenile that it makes me wonder what age group you belong too.

You very well know that having your entire frontier taken means you cant port, that means you cant play RvR with way to long travel times, and thats kind of the point of the endgame.

So brining this up as you do, just makes you look stupid.

In the end, I really hope for your own sake, that you start using your anlytical side instead of just basing your opinions on bias and what is good for you. What is good for all is best for you too in the long run i promise...

/Charmangle

It does seem you are 100% sure the main reason people left was because of ac raids when all the others servers are exactly the same (believe it or not) and in some cases worse than excal/pry for this. on avalon you'll log on the next morning to find your fronteir enemy colours and all your relics gone but noone cares because thats the aim of the game. playing hib on avalon is pretty much the same as exc/pry we never have a relic advantage and we're facing mids/albs with 2/3 power relics all the time etc but its still fun because there is people to fight all the time. you aint played daoc until you've been nuked by a rr12 fire wiz with power relics :>

People left the exc/pry cluster because of lack of competition, general lack of action and limited numbers in rvr. the tt incident had a small impact and just happened to be at the time where the server was already dieing and dropping dramatically in population anyway.

o and

You very well know that having your entire frontier taken means you cant port, that means you cant play RvR with way to long travel times, and thats kind of the point of the endgame.

come on... thats extremely rare on exc/pry but a common thing on lyo/avalon (daily infact), so why did people move servers again? I can assure you, 2 people getting a 3 day ban was not high on the list

 

[Eleasias]

crap i agree with arumos

 

[Davejohnson]

i for one left cluster cause there were way too many fins playing there... sadly i couldnt get rid of all of them :/

 

[Tuthmes]

It does seem you are 100% sure the main reason people left was because of ac raids when all the others servers are exactly the same (believe it or not) and in some cases worse than excal/pry for this.

True this, but as people have said before, those servers have a higher population and thus defenders.

 

[charmangle]

It does seem you are 100% sure the main reason people left was because of ac raids when all the others servers are exactly the same (believe it or not)

Well you are partly right, and no I never argued all the people that left the server left because of this, but what I argued was that this was a direct cause for ALOT of the BIG amount of people that left directly after this, me including and actually my entire guild.

They were annoyed with the AC raiding thing, but since they arent a RvR guild, they wouldnt leave over that, and the GoA action, they found annoying and bad, and made them think about their playing, but might not have forced them away. But since some people in the guild left directly over this, they lost people who organised things, made things fun for them, so they all went to WoW.

Now, there are ofc other factors, growing abit tired of the game over time, etc, etc. BUT the simple fact is that alot of people wouldnt have left if it hadnt been for this particular incident, combined with the wearing of the constant AC raiding. Not for quite a while yet anyway...this simply sped up the timetable and gave people the reason they needed to leave. At this stage of the Game life span, we really couldnt afford this. Had it happened 2 years ago, I doubt it would have had much impact on the game overall, but at this time, for the english cluster, it was devostating.

Ill give you something to chop at here...Id estimate from people I know and converse with, that about 75-100 people left the cluster over this controvercy. (Its based on nothing but my own observations, and experience, and should therefor be considered as such) And if that is anywhere near correct, it was way to high a price to pay for the cluster. We needed those people.

come on... thats extremely rare on exc/pry but a common thing on lyo/avalon (daily infact), so why did people move servers again? I can assure you, 2 people getting a 3 day ban was not high on the list

Mate you are taking the quote out of context...it was a response to what would happen if you never retook anything in your own frontier, eventually everything would be unportable and it would be impossible to play.

And on ava/lyo, the porting breaking switches so fast that it doesnt matter, but I wouldnt rvr there either if no one ever took back port.

In the end, a server like Ava/lyo can survive things like this, but GoA did cluster it for a reason, and my guess is that they know that the lower the population the faster the decline is. And the more vurnable the server becomes to effects of what can be considered grief play as AC raiding.

/Charmangle

ps. Hope that answered your nice arguments, equally well as they were put! ds.

 

[Appollo]

It wasnt Sollers fault tbh, it was his kitten called Hugo. He made sollers and me do it, he is evil, he is the destroyer of worlds.

 

[elbeek]

In a nutshell, TT were right, Muy and kagato can have fun with lots of botty sex whilst waiting for the third person to log onto a dead server.

 

[Coldbeard]

In a nutshell, TT were right, Muy and kagato can have fun with lots of botty sex whilst waiting for the third person to log onto a dead server.

Inc Muy reply relating DAoC to some WW2 event and with some stupid conclusion to end his flawed attempt to make a point.

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

Arumos hit the nail on the head.

 

[swords]

which is good, because hitting the thumb realy hurts

 

[Asha]

You know it's time for a thread to die when Andy is the voice of reason...

and off topic wtf did my pretty subsilver go?

 

[Muylaetrix]

People left the exc/pry cluster because of lack of competition, general lack of action and limited numbers in rvr. the tt incident had a small impact and just happened to be at the time where the server was already dieing and dropping dramatically in population anyway.

come on... thats extremely rare on exc/pry but a common thing on lyo/avalon (daily infact), so why did people move servers again? I can assure you, 2 people getting a 3 day ban was not high on the list

:worthy:

 

[Thorwyn]

Sorry I should have stated: Stated rule!
Show me the exact quote where it says anywhere in a written rule text that we have gotten from GoA or Mythic: "No player or guild are allowed to lower the level of any keep with a relic in it."

I can´t seem to find a rule (as in law), stating that I`m not allowed to fart into your face.
You just can not write down rules to cover all situations. That´s what all it´s all about. Spamming /rude to a dead opponent is a perfectly legal game mechanisms. But at some point, it crosses the border to grieving, not through the game mechanics, but through the intention behind it. And come on! Especially YOU, being a teacher, should know the usual tactics of testing the limits and hiding behind constructed necessities and "oh, but noone said I can´t" to cover a blattant fraud.

Now, there are ofc other factors, growing abit tired of the game over time, etc, etc. BUT the simple fact is that alot of people wouldnt have left if it hadnt been for this particular incident, combined with the wearing of the constant AC raiding.

But an incident, that was more or less provoked. TT wanted to make a statement and they also anticipated the reaction from GoA (in one way or the other). In a way, this was a pretty clever move, because they were more or less forcing GoA to make a statement.

I think Arumos is quite right. The reason why Exc/Pry is dying is not the AC raiding muppets and it´s not the TT response, neither is it the adders or the cheaters or ToA blues or /hood. The reason is deeper and the incidents on this server are just the symptoms.