That Virgin Galactic thing...

[Tom]

May not have been a thing at all:

http://online.wsj.com/articles/ntsb-cites-improper-pilot-command-in-virgin-galactic-crash-1414993698

MOJAVE, Calif.—An improper pilot command preceded the violent in-flight breakup of Virgin Galactic LLC’s experimental rocket ship Friday, according to federal safety investigators probing the fatal accident.

In a press briefing Sunday night, the National Transportation Safety Board said the craft’s co-pilot prematurely deployed movable tail surfaces, which was followed seconds later by the disintegration of the 60-foot-long SpaceShip Two.

The co-pilot died in the accident, and the other pilot was severely injured.

During Sunday’s news conference, acting NTSB Chairman Christopher Hart said investigators are still trying to understand reasons for the co-pilot’s actions. “We are a long way from finding cause,” he said."

While it's still very early days, for now the hysterical "I told them that rocket was going to blow up!" blatherings may be safely ignored:

the rocket motor and fuel tanks were found intact in the wreckage.

 

[Raven]

Yup but is does raise the question of how much human control should be given to piloting rockets into space. If a simple incorrect control at the wrong time causes it to explode and fall out the sky then it should be worried over!

 

[ECA]

Yup but is does raise the question of how much human control should be given to piloting rockets into space. If a simple incorrect control at the wrong time causes it to explode and fall out the sky then it should be worried over!

?

You can crash a car/train/plane by giving it an incorrect control at the wrong time.

 

[Scouse]

You can crash a car/train/plane by giving it an incorrect control at the wrong time.

That's true - but I think spacetravel's on much more of a tightrope than any of those things. You've zero margin for error in a spacecraft, but there's a margin for error in most other forms of travel.

 

[Raven]

?

You can crash a car/train/plane by giving it an incorrect control at the wrong time.

Yep, but a car doesn't come screaming out of the sky in a ball of flames and doesn't cost millions of pounds. With getting out of the atmosphere there is zero margin for error.

 

[Scouse]

Air safety chief Christopher Hart said the "feathering" device, designed to slow the craft on re-entry, activated without a command from the pilotshttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-29876154.

Maybe we should have MORE pilot control eh?

 

[DaGaffer]

Still can't work out the point of SpaceShip One. Its not really spaceflight.

 

[leggy]

More pointless toys for the rich who don't want to use their money for anything worthwhile.

 

[Job]

well if you are going around a country bend at 60 mph and decide to straighten up it could well mean a head on crash...control surfaces can lead to disaster...all modern jets are fly by wire...whats to stop the rudder suddenly wacking to the left.

 

[Tom]

well if you are going around a country bend at 60 mph and decide to straighten up it could well mean a head on crash...control surfaces can lead to disaster...all modern jets are fly by wire...whats to stop the rudder suddenly wacking to the left.

Years of aircraft being designed by very clever people, supported by years of rigorous testing for problems in all conceivable scenarios?

 

[Tom]

More pointless toys for the rich who don't want to use their money for anything worthwhile.

I'd say making spaceflight cheaper is one of the most worthwhile ambitions humanity could have.

 

[ECA]

I think every politician should be sent into space at least once.

They can see how fucking petty their shit is, and we should be able to vote at the end of their terms if we send them there permanently.

 

[Embattle]

It was never going to be easy.

 

[DaGaffer]

I'd say making spaceflight cheaper is one of the most worthwhile ambitions humanity could have.

Which is my point; this approach isn't going to make spaceflight cheaper unless someone comes up with a radically more powerful AND fuel efficient rocket to power it. And if they can do that, the same engines could do a better job powering conventional rockets.

 

[Hawkwind]

Calls into question the material stresses and control systems when a control surface deployment can completely obliterate an aircraft. Normal aircraft are tested for such things, Thrust Reversers deployed in flight and such. Don't necessarily need to take overall control away from the pilots but they should not be able to put the safety of the aircraft at risk through any input. This is what aircraft like the Airbus fly-by-wire does. Pilot is allowed to input a maneuver but it is checked against known parameters and never permitted to go outside the flight-envelope profile of the air-frame.

Seems to me the air frame/control system failed to keep it safe and that should be a huge concern.

 

[Hawkwind]

I think every politician should be sent into space at least once.

They can see how fucking petty their shit is, and we should be able to vote at the end of their terms if we send them there permanently.

I like this idea with one minor change, send them all up and we vote who gets to come down

 

[Exioce]

Interesting development, but there's a lot more wrong with this project than just the engine.

Apollo, Ansari and the Hobbling Effects of Giant Leaps

 

[Job]

Interesting but this is the way forward..one freakin fatality in brand new craft pushing the edge...the Guardian has a column by some dreadful trotski who claimed people flying to space are burning other peoples money to go on a boring flight that'st he same as flying at night.
Jesus I hate the fukin rag.
Here it is..worth reading to feel the rage. http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...space-tourists-obscene-inequality-free-market

 

[Raven]

Gibbering fuckwits need a paper too.

 

[DaGaffer]

Interesting but this is the way forward..one freakin fatality in brand new craft pushing the edge...the Guardian has a column by some dreadful trotski who claimed people flying to space are burning other peoples money to go on a boring flight that'st he same as flying at night.
Jesus I hate the fukin rag.
Here it is..worth reading to feel the rage. http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...space-tourists-obscene-inequality-free-market

Well, the politics are certainly up for debate, but...it's not spaceflight, and its not the way forward. It just isn't. The Virgin Galactic concept is a giant rollercoaster ride for rich people, but its not a stepping stone to mass space travel as they'd have you believe.

 

[Scouse]

Here it is..worth reading to feel the rage. http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...space-tourists-obscene-inequality-free-market

I disagree with the premise of the article because I think space flight is so important to the survival of humanity. Anything we can do to advance our knowledge in that area is still worth it at this point. Even if it's just sub-orbital rockets and alternative propulsion systems.

However, she's bang-on about this being a rich people's plaything. It aim is to open up spaceflight to mere multi-millionaires. The average joe in the street is not a punter. Dunno what's so rage-inducing about that?

 

[Job]

Hardly a direct route but 150 grand is within the reach of middle class people and would drop to a tenth of that if it becomes a viable business..all transport started off as a plaything for the rich...even the bleedin bicycle was invented for toffs..the vast vast majority of people who get rich do it through hard work and they pull millions up behind them..the superich are a gross side effect of capitilism but they nearly all invest their money..they don't sit on huge piles of gold like scrooge duck.

 

[dysfunction]

Well, the politics are certainly up for debate, but...it's not spaceflight, and its not the way forward. It just isn't. The Virgin Galactic concept is a giant rollercoaster ride for rich people, but its not a stepping stone to mass space travel as they'd have you believe.

Maybe not but it is a stepping stone to that goal.
They are creating and innovating new concepts in flying to space.

I think it is something to be celebrated rather than trivialized.

 

[DaGaffer]

Hardly a direct route but 150 grand is within the reach of middle class people and would drop to a tenth of that if it becomes a viable business..all transport started off as a plaything for the rich...even the bleedin bicycle was invented for toffs..the vast vast majority of people who get rich do it through hard work and they pull millions up behind them..the superich are a gross side effect of capitilism but they nearly all invest their money..they don't sit on huge piles of gold like scrooge duck.

You're missing the point; even if the price fell to fifteen grand, Virgin Galactic doesn't do anything useful, and nor will it ever. It doesn't go to orbit, it doesn't even take people from A to B (just A back to A). I suppose you could argue it gets people thinking about space, but it doesn't actually get them there, and its not even an approach that can be developed into something more useful later on, because there are simpler and cheaper ways to get payloads to orbit already.

 

[DaGaffer]

Maybe not but it is a stepping stone to that goal.
They are creating and innovating new concepts in flying to space.

I think it is something to be celebrated rather than trivialized.

See above. And once again, its not spaceflight.

 

[Tom]

You're missing the point; even if the price fell to fifteen grand, Virgin Galactic doesn't do anything useful, and nor will it ever. It doesn't go to orbit, it doesn't even take people from A to B (just A back to A). I suppose you could argue it gets people thinking about space, but it doesn't actually get them there, and its not even an approach that can be developed into something more useful later on, because there are simpler and cheaper ways to get payloads to orbit already.

I bet 40 years ago people used the same arguments against those who could afford to take intercontinental flights on Jumbo Jets. If Branson can fill his order books and get lots of money into his company, it makes perfect sense that he'll then be able to re-invest that money into larger, more ambitious projects - like orbital flights to get from one side of the globe to the other, in a fraction of the time it currently takes.

 

[Raven]

Yup. Everything has to start somewhere. If people want to spend silly money to go up high then let them. The money generated will be reinvested in more ambitious projects. They will also learn loads from it.

 

[Tom]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-29895140

So it appears that the co-pilot may have unlocked the feathering system when he shouldn't, aerodynamic forces may then have deployed the feathers, leading to the breakup of the aircraft.

 

[DaGaffer]

I bet 40 years ago people used the same arguments against those who could afford to take intercontinental flights on Jumbo Jets. If Branson can fill his order books and get lots of money into his company, it makes perfect sense that he'll then be able to re-invest that money into larger, more ambitious projects - like orbital flights to get from one side of the globe to the other, in a fraction of the time it currently takes.

Nope. It's a different argument. Virgin Galactic are starting from the wrong place; Spaceship One is like more analogous to a prewar airship than a 747; they could both get you across the Atlantic, but only one was going to make an industry out of it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm desperate for a real space industry in my lifetime, but this is a red herring

 

[Job]

There is a UK company that is building an orbital ship..if Branson succeeds then investment will flow to the orbital project...that's how the world works and you know it.
Us old buggers remember HOTOL..the one Maggie pulled the plug on..probably a good call but imagine having that baby parked at Heathrow..if we don't have dreams we might as well stay poor.